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Active Imagination: a question

Thisica

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I have been tempted to do this for quite some time, thanks to some exposure to Jung's works on this subject...but I'm concerned about the consequences of having the internal communication between the conscious and the unconscious occur, especially the flight from reality [Te protesting at this point!]. Should I try to do this anyway? Also: does the dominant cognitive function affect the way we can react to this activity?
 

Valiant

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You worry too much, just do it for christ's sake :p INTJs...

There's nothing bad with opening up to the imaginary flow. Honestly.
How can it be an escape from reality? The imagination is obviously a part of you, and as such very real.
Get your meaning though.

Of course the dominant function will affect the way you react to it. As does everything that's a part of you.
Think for a moment about Plato's "allegory of the cave".
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave, if you don't know it)
 

Thisica

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Another question: how do we know that our conscious system is communicating to the unconscious? It sounds impossible, given the inaccessibility of the unconscious to our conscious selves.
 

syndatha

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I don't see why you shouldn't, unless you have had psychotic experiences and/or are diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Then it could be harmful, otherwise not.
How you know that it occurs? This is a language of symbols in my experience. If, when you think about a specific person, the image of a shrimp or a sinking boat suddenly pops up, it could be a message from the unconscious (unless they are actual memories, of course). Then you can explore the images further by asking yourself what shrimps or sinking boats mean to you, and how this is related to him/her. This happens naturally in dreams - the dreams are a bridge between conscious and unconscious. You can get a similar effect by using (guided) meditations and drawing pictures of the images you get or write them down.
 

Arclight

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Imagination is the First step to Ni.. If you don't open your mind to new ideas and concepts you will not be able to synthesize new concepts and ideas. Imagination allows you to make connections you might otherwise miss and most importantly , imagination opens you to the realm of limitless possibilities.
Your Subconscious is your Ni talking to you.
INTJ's might not want to ignore their Dom Function, then.
Just saying.
 

Athenian200

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I don't see why you shouldn't, unless you have had psychotic experiences and/or are diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Then it could be harmful, otherwise not.
How you know that it occurs? This is a language of symbols in my experience. If, when you think about a specific person, the image of a shrimp or a sinking boat suddenly pops up, it could be a message from the unconscious (unless they are actual memories, of course). Then you can explore the images further by asking yourself what shrimps or sinking boats mean to you, and how this is related to him/her. This happens naturally in dreams - the dreams are a bridge between conscious and unconscious. You can get a similar effect by using (guided) meditations and drawing pictures of the images you get or write them down.

That's an interesting idea... let me try something.

My father. A tarot card, "The Emperor" is the first thing that comes to mind, but it's inverted. I see another image, that of a corrupt, hypocritical Catholic priest who accepts bribes and punishes others for things he himself indulges in. The next image that comes to mind, is of a smooth-talking, intelligent gangster, who has had a rough life and has learned to use guile and strength to get by. He is cruel, but still kinder than many of those around him.

Now I see yet another image. A child, running from something... in the rain. Endlessly running. He never stops, he never looks back. He only focuses on what's ahead of him. He is terrified of whatever is behind him, and he never wants to set eyes on it again. But he isn't just running from the past, or something specific, he's running from himself... he is too terrified to look inside.
 

syndatha

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That's an interesting idea... let me try something.

My father. A tarot card, "The Emperor" is the first thing that comes to mind, but it's inverted. I see another image, that of a corrupt, hypocritical Catholic priest who accepts bribes and punishes others for things he himself indulges in. The next image that comes to mind, is of a smooth-talking, intelligent gangster, who has had a rough life and has learned to use guile and strength to get by. He is cruel, but still kinder than many of those around him.

Now I see yet another image. A child, running from something... in the rain. Endlessly running. He never stops, he never looks back. He only focuses on what's ahead of him. He is terrified of whatever is behind him, and he never wants to set eyes on it again. But he isn't just running from the past, or something specific, he's running from himself... he is too terrified to look inside.

You're suppose to do the interpretation yourself - it depends on what these symbols mean to you...
But my guess is that your relationship with your dad is not the best - strict upbringing, someone whose rules changed all the time, in a way a child couldn't comprehend. You keep running because you're afraid you may recognise some of your father's qualities in yourself. Rain=grief?
But of course I may have no idea what I'm talking about :)
 

Athenian200

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You're suppose to do the interpretation yourself - it depends on what these symbols mean to you...
But my guess is that your relationship with your dad is not the best - strict upbringing, someone whose rules changed all the time, in a way a child couldn't comprehend. You keep running because you're afraid you may recognise some of your father's qualities in yourself. Rain=grief?
But of course I may have no idea what I'm talking about :)

Well, incidentally... most of that is correct, except that I think the child could also represent my father himself. I just realized that I see him as someone who is never introspective, doesn't know himself at all... someone who is always trying to avoid what's inside, and focus on controlling the outer world. Running in the rain could represent someone who flees from their own emotions, and doesn't try to understand them, even when they are consumed by them.

It could be that I have something in common with him, though... but I run in the opposite direction, into myself away from the outside world.

Anyway, it was an interesting exercise, though.
 

guesswho

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Another question: how do we know that our conscious system is communicating to the unconscious? It sounds impossible, given the inaccessibility of the unconscious to our conscious selves.

How do we know we have an unconscious?
 

Athenian200

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How do we know we have an unconscious?

If you knew for certain, it wouldn't be unconscious, now would it? :wink:

Basically, the unconscious is anything that you're not thinking about at the moment, but which exists somewhere in your mind. Something you're aware of on some level, but don't usually think about.
 

Serendipity

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If you knew for certain, it wouldn't be unconscious, now would it? :wink:

Basically, the unconscious is anything that you're not thinking about at the moment, but which exists somewhere in your mind. Something you're aware of on some level, but don't usually think about.

I'm no atheist and probably no believer but that made me think: Ah so it's like the earth and god. Some folks believe in him and speak to him, others do as they are told. Or reverted, Some folks make sure there is no god and speak to themselves, others follow them. Not that it makes any sense or has any relevance to this.

Actually, we don't know how large the universe is but we can claim that it is expanding. It is expanding because we notice that the lengths in the universe grow and stars "fall apart". We could easily do the same thing with the consciousness but the lengths aren't between stars but between ideas and ideas we have yet to absorb/accept. We'd see it expanding but not knowing where the limit is. I want to say: It's a feeling of expanding to symbolism and knowing what is within order and what isn't but that isn't good communication.

What you feel in synch with and what you begin to master. As you reach a new level of understanding, which almost always puts you back to square one, you feel the "new" dawn and you realize and absorb and organize and synthesize information differently. You notice in others where they are and you notice where you are and you "see" the differences as "lengths". These wavelengths display the last boundaries of knowledge of your subconscious you knew of but the current ones is where you are unaware. Thus you are expanding but not necessarily in physical space. I am unsure and this is but a hypothesis, a suggestion.
 

syndatha

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Wikipedia says:
The unconscious mind might be defined as that part of the mind which gives rise to a collection of mental phenomena that manifest in a person's mind but which the person is not aware of at the time of their occurrence. These phenomena include unconscious feelings, unconscious or automatic skills, unnoticed perceptions, unconscious thoughts, unconscious habits and automatic reactions, complexes, hidden phobias and concealed desires.

The unconscious mind can be seen as the source of night dreams and automatic thoughts (those that appear without apparent cause); the repository of memories that have been forgotten but that may nevertheless be accessible to consciousness at some later time; and the locus of implicit knowledge, i.e. all the things that we have learned so well that we do them without thinking. One familiar example of the operation of the unconscious is the phenomenon where one fails to immediately solve a given problem and then suddenly has a flash of insight that provides a solution maybe days later at some odd moment during the day.

Observers throughout history have argued that there are influences on consciousness from other parts of the mind. These observers differ in the use of related terms, including: unconsciousness as a personal habit; being unaware and intuition. Terms related to semi-consciousness include: awakening, implicit memory, subliminal messages, trances, hypnagogia, and hypnosis. Although sleep, sleep walking, dreaming, delirium and coma may signal the presence of unconscious processes, these processes are not the unconscious mind, but more of a symptom.

Unlike the existence of God, it's widely accepted that we have an unconscious mind - there would just be too much information to handle if our consciousness was to take care of everything. But otherwise, I think the analogy about earth and God is quite good:
Conscious - Earth - what you can see - S
Unconscious - God - what you can imagine - N
 

Serendipity

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Wikipedia says:


Unlike the existence of God, it's widely accepted that we have an unconscious mind - there would just be too much information to handle if our consciousness was to take care of everything. But otherwise, I think the analogy about earth and God is quite good:
Conscious - Earth - what you can see - S
Unconscious - God - what you can imagine - N

I don't agree with N and S being subconscious vs conscious functions. They are both conscious functions, how else to reflect upon them without creating madness?
(tbh, I am not well equipped to debate this issue, it's just a notion I have and I'll come back to explain it further if you'd like to get into a discussion about it.)

And once upon a time, the premise of god was a fact rather than something imaginary. Rather, it was still imaginary but it was an image we all believed in. Einstein's theory of general relativity wasn't believed in from the beginning because we didn't understand it but we did believe in his works about Photoelectric effect. I'm not act as if I understand either of his theories. All I am trying to say is that there's a shred of doubt upon which the world hangs and at one time or another an axiom looses or wins an understanding for the greater public.
 
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Thisica

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Third question: To do active imagination [in Jung's sense, remember!], should we do this in front of someone trustworthy, or can it be done on one's own?
 

Arclight

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How do we know we have an unconscious?

Dreams, If you mean "subconscious".

If you mean "unconscious", let me hit on the head with my club . I'll show you unconscious :laugh:
 

syndatha

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Third question: To do active imagination [in Jung's sense, remember!], should we do this in front of someone trustworthy, or can it be done on one's own?
You can do it on your own. One of the theories behind therapy is that we are traumatized in relationships with other people, so the healing will only occur in relationship with someone who is there with you (like the therapist). That doesn't mean that you can't explore your subconscious alone...
@Arclight: LOL thanks for the english lesson :D
 
G

Ginkgo

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Another question: how do we know that our conscious system is communicating to the unconscious? It sounds impossible, given the inaccessibility of the unconscious to our conscious selves.

You become aware of things you weren't previously aware of. Jung's definition of the collective unconscious was a kind of experiential reservoir for the whole of humanity. New experiences-->New awareness-->Conscious of the unconscious.
 

Thisica

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You become aware of things you weren't previously aware of. Jung's definition of the collective unconscious was a kind of experiential reservoir for the whole of humanity. New experiences-->New awareness-->Conscious of the unconscious.

Unfortunately, though, the concept of the "collective unconscious" has become mystified. Hence, another question:

What in the internal world of humans is the "collective unconscious"?
 
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