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The Dark Side of the INTJ

slowriot

He who laughs
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Dec 1, 2008
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1,314
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5w4
They bait you with cookies to the dark side, and then give you none.

Who does that?

exactly my point

EDIT: Oh and.....

It's entirely true; as an INTJ I openly admit that I order the environment to help order myself, I succeed through achievements in my environment as well. That really does follow from having Pi-Je (Ni-Te) in the dominant and tertiary. But it has an upside that I can turn up in an environment and make myself useful in it. By contrast INTPs have Ji-Pe (Ti-Ne) and don't feel the need to define themselves through their environment and but tend to only find themselves to be productive in roles that fit their internal definition.

:rofl1:
 

Nicodemus

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Aug 2, 2010
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9,756
They bait you with cookies to the dark side, and then give you none.

Who does that?
pedophile-demotivational-poster-1219634735.jpg
 

Engineer

Dependable Skeleton
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
625
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INTJ
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6w5
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sx/sp
On the surface he is brilliant, extremely successful and handsome. He has done very well for himself. He is comfortable discussing ways in which he thinks he's awesome as well as deeply unhappy and cynical. Despite these things, he is very loving, affectionate, and empathetic to those he loves.

But he coldly rationalizes behavior that worries me. He is technically honest. I have never known him to lie, but he is a pretty talented wordsmith. One example I've seen: rather than tell a woman he's moved on, he quietly slips away and after several days emails her to say he "is going quiet as he needs time with his head." He has actually started sleeping with someone else. To friends, he will say of the first girl, "We are no longer seeing each other. We remain friends, though." And to his new lover who asks who he is dating concurrently? "What is "dating?" (lengthy conversation ensues, he tries to squirm out of it). Then, "I briefly dated another woman. She knows I wasn't 100% sure about her. We are friends but no longer seeing each other in person." And when his former lover eventually figures out--two weeks later--that he's effectively dumped her, he tells her: "It wasn't actually my belief that we were no longer dating, but since you seem to suggest that we have stopped dating...yes. You are clearly unhappy so that seems reasonable to me. I am comfortable with that." :shock:

NONE of this is technically dishonest. He is simply a master at getting people to do/behave in ways which suit him; he will carefully and cold-heartedly weed out early those who are unwilling to play along and says he never regrets the consequences of his actions. He is also open about the fact that he prefers to be "mentally and/or physically dominant" with women he dates. An observation is that his driver's license pic looks like a goddamn serial killer. I nearly dropped it when i saw it. I have never seen such a cold, hateful, empty look on another person's face. It shocked me because he usually wears a very neutral mask. This thing looked like it belonged in a police lineup.

- Do any of you INTJs find yourselves engaging in similar behavior (mental/physical dominance, manipulation, exposing facets of a situation to someone, in order to increase the likelihood that they will comply?)

I do the whole verbal gymnastics thing quite a bit, especially if I don't trust the person I'm talking to, or feel as if there was something to gain from saying or admitting a particular fact. As for the manipulation part, I'll admit he sounds a bit more dark than the average INTJ, what with the controlling nature and evil driver's license photo. I'm a bit more laid-back when it comes to emotional control, but I still do manipulate information that people receive to better my position. So, yeah, not many people know the full story when it comes to our type. If one of us does let you have it, be very aware that what you do with that information could make or break your relationship with him/her, and also know that we're watching you to make sure you don't betray us in some fashion.
 

AgentF

Unlimited Dancemoves ®
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I do the whole verbal gymnastics thing quite a bit, especially if I don't trust the person I'm talking to, or feel as if there was something to gain from saying or admitting a particular fact. As for the manipulation part, I'll admit he sounds a bit more dark than the average INTJ, what with the controlling nature and evil driver's license photo. I'm a bit more laid-back when it comes to emotional control, but I still do manipulate information that people receive to better my position. So, yeah, not many people know the full story when it comes to our type. If one of us does let you have it, be very aware that what you do with that information could make or break your relationship with him/her, and also know that we're watching you to make sure you don't betray us in some fashion.

so how would you INTJs respond to someone calling you out on the verbal gymnastics? say:
- before you fully trust them
- once you fully trust them

?
 

Engineer

Dependable Skeleton
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so how would you INTJs respond to someone calling you out on the verbal gymnastics? say:
- before you fully trust them
- once you fully trust them

?

Before I trusted them: more verbal gymnastics, followed by a healthy amount of bullshit to brick up the walls. A good analogy is those scrambler suits from "A Scanner Darkly" (not that you've read that, but hey, it still works): the less they know about me, the better it is for me to alter things around me.

After I trusted them: depending on how it was called, I'd either range from taking it as constructive criticism or a bad habit on my part. Generally the people I trust (and I believe currently there are four of them) know everything there is to know about me, and if I'm not honest with them, that's something I need to correct. I treat them much differently from the average rabble, and make a visible effort not to dodge questions from them, no matter how difficult or hard-to-answer they may be. So if they call me on it, I'll generally admit that yes, I was messing around, and give them a straight answer.
 

entropie

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I still havent figured out if intjs are using their light or dark side on me or if its any of that kind at all. :)
 

AgentF

Unlimited Dancemoves ®
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now i'm getting worried. why have so many people privately commented (i'm talking 6+) that he:
- sounds like a sociopath
- sounds like a psychopath
- reminds a few of you of various rapists, murderers, child molesters with whom you have somehow had direct or indirect contact*

i deeply appreciate your concern and, in some cases, the details which you shared with me. i really don't know what to do about the alarming nature of these warnings, when there seems nearly as much in-thread consensus that there's nothing out of the ordinary. the "delta" between everyone's perspective is deeply troubling.

nothing anyone can do. i have to think this through and decide to abandon ship or proceed with befriending this man. i'm not actually hearing anyone recommending the friend route, however.


*hopefully it's ok to reference private comments in a general sense
 

AgentF

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"INTJs are normally boringly responsible individuals."

"Try to learn about the individual in several areas. Learn his/her history, this is especially important in making a "diagnosis". You may want to ask for help from your psychologist or an ENFP. An ENFP is brilliantly perceptive and will spot a phony a mile off. Unfortunately, she will then fall in love and try to rescue him."

ladies and gentlemen, i think we have our verdict.
 

InvisibleJim

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now i'm getting worried. why have so many people privately commented (i'm talking 6+) that he:
- sounds like a sociopath
- sounds like a psychopath
- reminds a few of you of various rapists, murderers, child molesters with whom you have somehow had direct or indirect contact*

Well to be honest these people need to get out more if they are surrealist enough to seriously consider even issuing such slanderous ideas about someone - especially someone who they haven't met.

I've seen that article before. The worrying aspect regarding the article is that the it says Part 1 in the web address, but the article title says Part 2.... *flies away into Ni-Te land! Weeee......*
 

Synapse

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The important aspect here Agentfurrina what does your intuition say? Do you have a feeling of comfort or discomfort when talking to him? Is there something that tells you to pay attention to his behaviour and then your heart overrides this in favour of the attraction? If your gut says there is something wrong about him then there is something wrong about him otherwise you wouldn't want clarification on his behaviour and how your being.
 

AgentF

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my intuition says there is something missing or broken in his moral framework, but that a professional might be able to help. in this case, i'd do my best to be a platonic source of support.

or, that he is a sociopath. in which case, i quietly slip the fuck away.
 

Curator

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my intuition says there is something missing or broken in his moral framework, but that a professional might be able to help. in this case, i'd do my best to be a platonic source of support.

or, that he is a sociopath. in which case, i quietly slip the fuck away.

Considering both possibilities you list, could lead to a potentially dangerous situation... I think your intuition has answered some important questions...I cant pretend to know whats best in this situation, My heart wants to tell you to help him out, be his friend and try and help him through it as he seeks professional help... But my mind tells me that this is an extremely dangerous situation, that you should only go into if you are willing to risk everything on the off chance that you may be able to provide a little more help than a professional can... I have mixed feelings myself on this now,hahaha... as it is, im not sure how you could help him at all if either of the above possibilities are correct...i dunno...
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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Dec 3, 2008
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my intuition says there is something missing or broken in his moral framework, but that a professional might be able to help. in this case, i'd do my best to be a platonic source of support.

You want to be gigantically careful of such a diagnosis. Be especially careful to avoid making diagnoses that mean, in effect, "that guy's just not being ALL THE ISTJ HE COULD BE."

Make a list of the missing or broken parts. If it all adds up to "doesn't pay adequate attention to the facts of the past", then you're setting yourself up with really obvious unconscious tells about what you want, and from that the sociopath's gonna git ya.
 

InvisibleJim

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You want to be gigantically careful of such a diagnosis. Be especially careful to avoid making diagnoses that mean, in effect, "that guy's just not being ALL THE ISTJ HE COULD BE."

Make a list of the missing or broken parts. If it all adds up to "doesn't pay adequate attention to the facts of the past", then you're setting yourself up with really obvious unconscious tells about what you want, and from that the sociopath's gonna git ya.

I know that if someone was so unpleasantly presumptuous as to approach me with either the idea of 'you need psychological help; I will support you' or the thought 'potential sociopath' I would not want them around at all, I would purposely blacklist them from my life entirely. It's a shockingly manipulative belief that you will be 'good enough a person' to support 'fixing' a person who hasn't actually done anything technically wrong other than not acting exactly by a non-agreed upon set of ethics in their own head and they obviously aren't balanced enough to weight up their experiences of me in a sensible way and are therefore prejudice.

In fact considering that they would even potentially consider me a sociopath -based upon some internet links as well.. - I would just assume this individual is dangerously unbalanced firstly to jump to that assessment. Moreover, they are so unbalanced that despite thinking this it would seem that they aren't capable of walking away, therefore removing them entirely from my life is for 'their own good' in 'their opinion'.

No cigar and a dangerous and degrading set of opinions. This is not the kind of individual I would want to have as a friend.
 

Kalach

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I know that if someone was so unpleasantly presumptuous as to approach me with either the idea of 'you need psychological help; I will support you' or the thought 'potential sociopath' I would not want them around at all, I would purposely blacklist them from my life entirely. It's a shockingly manipulative belief that you will be 'good enough a person' to support 'fixing' a person who hasn't actually done anything technically wrong other than not acting exactly by a non-agreed upon set of ethics in their own head and they obviously aren't balanced enough to weight up their experiences of me in a sensible way and are therefore prejudice.

In fact considering that they would even potentially consider me a sociopath -based upon some internet links as well.. - I would just assume this individual is dangerously unbalanced firstly to jump to that assessment. Moreover, they are so unbalanced that despite thinking this it would seem that they aren't capable of walking away, therefore removing them entirely from my life is for 'their own good' in 'their opinion'.

No cigar and a dangerous and degrading set of opinions. This is not the kind of individual I would want to have as a friend.

LOL, Jim, did you just say any girlfriend who thinks you might be a sociopath had it coming?


Technically, I suppose I agree.
 

InvisibleJim

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LOL, Jim, did you just say any girlfriend who thinks you might be a sociopath had it coming?

Technically, I suppose I agree.

I might have done... although I generally avoid people with delusions of magically psychoanalysis and mind reading abilities as a matter of course... don't want to subsidise behaving on hearsay rather than based upon empirical experiences. I find it is always a technically robust doctrine.
 
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