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The psychology of forum and online dynamics

mippus

you are right
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Mippus, to quote whatever:
I have friendships that mean a lot to me.. one of the reasons is that we do not scratch eachother's back, we do not make public displays of affection or evern recognition, but in private deeply appreciate one another and have a high quality friendship due to what is given and received. The other type.. I have absolutely no desire for.

Please, take no offence. My comment is not meant as cynical as it may look like. What I say is that we value friendship because we get something from it. What that "something" is, can vary: idea's, challenge, respect, love, attention, identity, security... and social connection. That is more than scratching eachother's backs (however satisfying that may be ;)).
Such a typical (and maybe horrible) NT-statement...:blush:
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
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;) some connection is better than no connection- and often they start with the most seemingly insignifigant gestures

what may at first appear shallow can often lead to something deeper if people don't write it off! :)
 

mippus

you are right
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Ah, indeed we do.. and we all have different needs. :)

This is another element of online dynamics that I really appreciate: a willingness to debate and change opinions as a result from it. Not everybody's ego allows this, but on this specific forum, I have the impression that many put pride aside and really exchange opinions and ideas...

I'd scratch your back for inspiring me, Dana, but I know you don't like that :D
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
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Another interesting and controversial :devil: aspect of this site is how some people/groups seem to require and demand production of saccharine validation/affirmation/attention. It's hard to precisely label it, but here's an example:

Member 1: I had such a rough day. It's so hard to... I try so hard, but sometimes I feel like...

All this is calculated, in my estimation, to elicit this type of response:

Member 2: :hug: It's okay! :hug: You're a great person, blah blah blah...

That response only encourages Member 1 to continue with the pity/validation game instead of address why he or she really needs that validation. I find it pretty fascinating. It seems like it's a very SFJ thing.

Strategic alliances between people are also a part of forum culture ;) There's always a lot of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" going on between people- responding to posts by people who respond to your posts, repping people who rep you, supporting those who are supportive of you...

But what do you get from all this other than friendships forged by a motive?

This is probably my number one observation of the goings on here and how alliances form. Not that these alliances are evil or anything it's just they seem to be very superficial and you're right about the SFJish thing. This is how my coworker's act at work and then go swipe at each other when their backs are turned. And it's just so odd that as Fe dominant, this behavior is something I don't engage in, here or IRL (kinda grosses me out actually).

Alliances form when members with lots of reputation "gift" n00bs or older members with a high rep. I think it forces, or rather creates unspoken reciprocity agreements between members forming an alliance. Commenting often in someone's blog is a good way of forming an alliance as well, no matter how trite the comment, just doing it works. But as far as blogs are concerned, it's nice when someone gives good feedback and commentary on something instead of a pat on the butt.

I think alliance formation deters the flow of ideas on the forum because if some gives you hundreds of rep points, you're not going to be as quick to publicly disagree with them. And top it off with the petting and stroking that goes on in the blogs ("Girl/Boy, I can't believe that shithead did that to you! You are special and deserve to be a celestial body!!") instead of doing what Edahn and Dana pointed out...where is the depth? It's just a bunch of fakeness running around. It's like getting daily Botox injections. And I think that any healthy disagreement that would naturally surface on the forum is tamped down because people don't feel like they can disagree (on a non-Big Five topic of course). What happens when things are preserved in sugar? No nutritional value whatsoever. But then pickling and salting everything isn't very nutritional either, so eh.

Sorry for just repeating what other people have already said, I just wanted to add my agreement.
 

proteanmix

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;) some connection is better than no connection- and often they start with the most seemingly insignifigant gestures

what may at first appear shallow can often lead to something deeper if people don't write it off! :)

But what is the connection based on? All it is is a bunch of yes people. Quality control. :)
 

disregard

mrs
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I'd scratch your back for inspiring me, Dana, but I know you don't like that :D

Giving reputation isn't always scratching a back! This is what bothers me--everyone else's pointless reputation makes my (intended to be) meaningful reputation get lost like a needle in a haystack.

I would love to get a nice reputation comment from you if I inspire you.. inspiring others here and there is surprising to me and it makes me feel like I'm really a part of the forum.

Dig?
 

miss fortune

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;) you start somewhere- some people I keep a deeper chat going on with via PM- a real friendship I would say
 

Jae Rae

Free-Rangin' Librarian
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This is probably my number one observation of the goings on here and how alliances form. Not that these alliances are evil or anything it's just they seem to be very superficial and you're right about the SFJish thing. This is how my coworker's act at work and then go swipe at each other when their backs are turned. And it's just so odd that as Fe dominant, this behavior is something I don't engage in, here or IRL (kinda grosses me out actually).

This could be an SFJ thing, but given how few SFJs are on this forum and the incidence of this kind of exchange, it can't be just the SFJs who're doing it.


Jae Rae
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Alliances form when members with lots of reputation "gift" n00bs or older members with a high rep. I think it forces, or rather creates unspoken reciprocity agreements between members forming an alliance. Commenting often in someone's blog is a good way of forming an alliance as well, no matter how trite the comment, just doing it works. But as far as blogs are concerned, it's nice when someone gives good feedback and commentary on something instead of a pat on the butt.

I did notice the "rep" thing going on. (And I probably don't get much rep as some others because I don't give much out either -- mostly I use it as an pseudo-IM if anything.)

The blog posting thing is very interesting to me. Often even if I don't have a lot to say content-wise, I will still acknowledge people's remarks and/or even go to their blog to respond to things... mostly because i am sending a "cue" that I care about them or that I appreciated their comment or that I am willing to reciprocate, i.e., the "good will" thing... It's mostly a "social cement" thing. I have also had a few times where, when i didn't respond to particular people (even just a quick word of "thanks") and I would answer other entries because I had some thoughts about them, my lack of response was taken negatively.

It reminds me a little of the social conventions in China when we adopted our daughter. We were expected to give a rather cheap gift to people we encountered in the government agency we adopted her from, as we were finishing the paperwork; we were TOLD to bring this gift with us from the States. it could be soap, placemats, candy/chocolate, or whatnot...but if we did not give this gift, they would take it poorly.

So there we are all waiting outside this little office, all of us adoptive families, each holding our little gift bag, and we each go in, and the man smiles, and we hand him the gift, and he nods and we nod and everyone smiles and he places it on the pile of all the OTHER goodies he got, and then we sign off on the papers and leave.

Geez. honestly, most of the gifts were worth nothing.

But that's just what it was. We had already paid thousands and thousands of dollars for this adoption to go through... and we still had to buy this silly gift, or people would get offended. Because that's how the culture worked.

Same here too, in some ways. and in many social groups.
 

proteanmix

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This could be an SFJ thing, but given how few SFJs are on this forum and the incidence of this kind of exchange, it can't be just the SFJs who're doing it.

Jae Rae

Sorry Jae Rae, I didn't mean to be insulting given that I may very well be an SFJ myself. I was trying to make a point in the stereotypical world of MBTI where depth and sincerity of feeling and intellectualism lay in the province of intuitives. Doesn't make it right though.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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This could be an SFJ thing, but given how few SFJs are on this forum and the incidence of this kind of exchange, it can't be just the SFJs who're doing it.


Jae Rae

No, but that kind of thing is infectious, because it sets new standards and norms for interacting. Also, who knows how many people here are mistyped sensors. :ninja:
 

miss fortune

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No, but that kind of thing is infectious, because it sets new standards and norms for interacting. Also, who knows how many people here are mistyped sensors. :ninja:

True- there are probably a lot of sensors here in N clothing (something I frequently suspect). It is, however, not polite to tell someone that they are a sensor when they are an intuitive, since nobody wants to be a sensor ;)

In general- accusing someone of being a sensor is a good way to provoke an argument on this forum!
 

Jae Rae

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Sorry Jae Rae, I didn't mean to be insulting given that I may very well be an SFJ myself. I was trying to make a point in the stereotypical world of MBTI where depth and sincerity of feeling and intellectualism lay in the province of intuitives. Doesn't make it right though.

No offense taken. :hug:

Jae Rae
 

bluebell

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Apr 30, 2007
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Why do you think people respond with :hug: you're so great :hug:?

There's another forum I'm on where this sort of thing constitutes about 90% of all replies (needless to say, I don't fit in there particularly well, heh).

Out of curiousity, those who respond with :hug: you're sooo great - do you actually feel that? I have occasionally posted hugs in people's blogs on another forum but it's out of genuine emotional reaction to what's going on in their lives (it's rare for me to do that, though - I normally PM instead if I'm worried about them).

Strategic alliances between people are also a part of forum culture ;) There's always a lot of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" going on between people- responding to posts by people who respond to your posts, repping people who rep you, supporting those who are supportive of you...

Does that feel shallow though? I'd much rather someone responded to one of my posts because they disagreed with something I wrote, or could expand on something that I'd written. Knowing that someone replied only because I'd replied to one of their posts would feel pretty meaningless to me.

I have friendships that mean a lot to me.. one of the reasons is that we do not scratch eachother's back, we do not make public displays of affection or recognition, but in private deeply appreciate one another and have a high quality friendship due to what is given and received. The other type.. I have absolutely no desire for.

I hate doing 'me too' posts, but I can't think of a better way to describe it. I have several close friends on MBTIc, but those connections are not going to be particularly visible to others for the reasons you mention.

Alliances form when members with lots of reputation "gift" n00bs or older members with a high rep. I think it forces, or rather creates unspoken reciprocity agreements between members forming an alliance.

Reciprocity is a two-way thing. I can pretty much guarantee that I won't be forming alliances from being given random rep points or :hugs:.

So, for people who feel like they have to reciprocate or become part of an alliance because someone has given them rep points, or got a hug in a blog - why? Is it that having a shallow 'friendship' is better than none? Would you really choose not to disagree with someone you have an alliance with, just because of that alliance? *slightly baffled*
 

CzeCze

RETIRED
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GONE
story on gift giving officials in China

That's an interesting anecdote and I think what it alludes to in business would fall under the 'high context' society where you have to set up a level of camraderie or socializing as a prerequisite to doing business. Actually just needing to bring in one gift is not really a marker of such a business atmosphere but the real deal involves a lot of stuff considered extraneous by American standards. But even in American business there is a lot of schmoozing, networking, under the table and backroom deals and unspoken rules and hierarchies.

But if you change the situation to a housewarming or just a regular dinner at a friends, it's expected to bring a gift to the former and good form if you bring something to the latter. Doesn't have to be expensive, but typically wine or a 'hostess', meal, or house related (context specific) gift. And while you're there, to be a reasonably well-behaved guest.

I don't think there's anything wrong with these things per sae. Society is made up of a bunch of strangers and symbolic acts show an acknowledgment and awareness of people, their efforts, and the dynamics of a situation as well as goodwill. Maybe it's hardwired into us from caveman days where you had to show a bit of sacrifice to prove you weren't dangerous and willing to work in a group to survive.

While I understand the need for balance and healthy skepticism towards customs (even if in a pointless Seinfeld way), not following or rather not understanding customs and local mores means you will not integrate as well into (that) society.

As for the pointlessly gladhanding of 'woe is me' posts -- sometimes people just want empathy not solutions. This is so funny because it reminds me of 'Men are from Jupiter, Women are from Mercury' or whatever it's called that talked about different communication styles. And empathy is not just in the warm fuzzy NF sense either.

I see a lot of cynical or type bashing posts and the poster obviously wants validation and other people to say, "Yeah you're right, type XXXX really does suck! I hate them too! We're perfect and they're messed up" The more type bashing threads I've read are generally by NTs bashing sensors, NFs, or SFs but it's the same concept at play of looking for empathy/validation and more-over ingroup/outgroup distinctions.

I just think it's funny how it's the overly warm-fuzzy posts that consistently get the most vocal criticism as dangerous for forum life. I think that points to an NT bias in the forum and also the view that warm-fuzzies are fake and therefore sinister -- whereas the nature of bashing posts are open in their hostility or irreverence (not to mention more natural for an NT than a warm fuzzy one) and destructive nature. Though I also argue that a lot of bashing posts are actually not that open and are usually thinly veiled.

And at least some of the views on forum life depend a lot on your views of RL dynamics and convention and how well you adhere to or criticize them. Whether forum life should follow RL or if online communities are meant to 'transcend' it.
 

Anonymous

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I've been all over different forums since I was 11, but the only one that I've really gotten absorbed into (making friendships with other members) is INTPc. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to read the entire thread, so I'll just say a few things that I've noticed.

1. Culture is largely made up by the theme of the forum and the administration. This is the case because the theme of the forum is mostly going to attract certain type of people (i.e. a psychology forum probably won't get 40 year old men who's only love in life is drinking beer and watching football), and the administration is going to filter out what kind of people stick around. Say, if you go to a forum where the administration is extremely strict and moderation is very heavy handed, you're more likely going to get people who are used to a lot of structure in their lives, as people who like more liberal settings probably won't be comfortable.

2. Pack-leaders and anti-pack members seem to keep forums charged with emotional energy. Pack leaders are the big shots. There's something about them which is very attractive to the general user base. They don't necessarily need to have any friends, but they always seem to have very opinionated posts and know how to debate. They don't have to be rational about their debating at all. In fact, in a gaming forum, someone who is very good at wielding ad hominom is most likely going to be the most liked in debates. Now anti-pack members are those people who no one likes. They're the ones who make you wonder why the hell they stick around. Members tend to end up being openly hostile towards them, and this makes the members invest emotional energy into the forum, even though it's negative. If one of these member is banned, there might be a lot of negative energy that suddenly has nothing to center on, and this is dealt with conditionally.

These are really the only major trends that I've noticed universally. A lot of other elements are dependent on the culture and user base.
 

Zergling

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Why do you think people respond with :hug: you're so great :hug:? I'm thinking either:

I see a lot of these posts as quick easy posts that anyone can make. (sort of like "noobs, chit chat, you suck" in the earlier post of mine.) In this case, many people may want to say something more comforting and/or useful, but won't think of something really good to say, so either they don't post, or write a simple hug post. The people who do naturally post the smiley hugs will just do so anyway, as there is nothing that gets in the way of doing so.
 

Geoff

Lallygag Moderator
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Giving reputation isn't always scratching a back! This is what bothers me--everyone else's pointless reputation makes my (intended to be) meaningful reputation get lost like a needle in a haystack.

I would love to get a nice reputation comment from you if I inspire you.. inspiring others here and there is surprising to me and it makes me feel like I'm really a part of the forum.

Dig?

So, perhaps the "rep" system has become a sort of currency. Those with a lot, are like investment banks, encouraging new members to spend a little of their currency to buy a long term benefit...

Others are using "rep" to barter for friendships, for influence, for clique-forming, and subsets within a wider crowd.

Some, use it just to give feedback on something they enjoyed reading and want to mark that fact.

Interesting, isnt it?
 
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