We (the British) sometimes make jokes about this very phenomenon. It's considered a very American concern.
In England, your "lineage" is generally considered to go back to your grandparents. So, for example, if your grandparents are Italian (like mine), people might say I'm half-Italian. However, I would always call myself English (if in Britain) and British (if elsewhere). If people make a comment about it, then I'll tell them, but it's not at all imperative..
It's very interesting that in England you consider your lineage only back to your grandparents. I didn't know that. So do you not concern yourself at all with your earlier ancestors? (That sounds a little snarky - I don't mean it that way, I'm just curious.)
It strikes me as ridiculous and I'm at a loss to understand why Americans do it. The Italian-American community bears little resemblance at all to the original Italian community. Being loud and eating a lot does not "make you Italian", so to speak. I can only suppose they call themselves "Italian-American" as a way to create a culture in a country that has/had none; I imagine it's the same for other communities. There exists a concept of "The American Dream" yet everyone seems bent on not being American, unless someone suggests they are un-American, at which point they become super-American.
I think one thing that seems to be a source of misunderstanding and contention in this thread is Americans using the phrase "I'm Italian" or "I'm Irish" etc. I think you're taking it too literally. When an American asks another American, "What are you?" it's understood to mean, "What is your heritage?" or "Where did your ancestors immigrate from?" And when the answer is "I'm Irish" or what not, we don't mean, or think, that we are Irish in the way that people living in Ireland are Irish. It's understood to mean that we're of Irish descent. I can understand that this sounds strange to Europeans, but you need to understand that it's not meant literally. We all know that we are Americans.
It's not really that odd when you look at American history and the basic logic behind it. America, like any country really, is a community of communities. And in America's particular case, our plurality of communities included immigrants from various countries who came here and settled in common neighborhoods and communities; and thus mixed the traditions of the old country with those of the American mainstream. You find this among many diaspora communities around the world, not just America.
Yes, very good point.
It's interesting to trace your ancestry because in America, unless you're Native American, you could have come from anywhere. Your mother and father could be from two different continents. It can carry meaning in how invested you are in the country itself, too. It's different if your people came here in the 1700's than if your parents are from Europe, or you moved here as a child. There's a different degree of emotional investment, I think. I read someone's remark here, I can't remember what the whole conversation was, just someone wrote, "Anyone can be an American," and it was kind of a kick in the gut.
I agree.
This. In addition, many of the immigrant communities in early America did not get along well, to put it mildly. So your identity of ancestry also determined who had your back and who you should be wary of. I'm sure that kind of thing has an effect down through the generations even if the original reason for it is rendered moot.
I've also always thought that perhaps this is a way for Americans to have history. We're a very new country, and we don't have a lot of history. Identifying with your European roots is a way to connect with history. I'm almost 100% of Irish descent. I wouldn't say exactly that I'm proud of it, but I enjoy knowing that and exploring Irish culture and history to give my family a context. It also definitely enhanced my experience when I have visited Ireland in the past.
Yes.
I agree with this. I find people that do this to be terribly irritating. Having one grandparent born in a different country barely connects you at all to that place - one knows nothing of it, or of its ways. I think what is telling is when "an Italian" (from America) meets a real Italian. In most cases, the Americans don't even speak Italian. If they do, they speak an appalling "dialect" which does not follow correct rules of pronunciation - it's barely comprehensible. I don't speak Italian that well to be fair, but they seem to create their own brutalised language. I think this shows the distance that exists between these two cultures and the subsequent ludicrousness of "hanging on" to a mythologised past.
Well, it might be true that someone with one Italian (or whatever) grandparent might not know anything about Italian culture, or know the language. That's even more true for people like me, who are many, many generations removed from their immigrant ancestor. But part of the reason for that is that a lot of people who immigrated to America did so to escape poverty, persecution, etc in their country of origin, and therefore had negative experiences associated with that culture and language. Also, when they arrived in America, they were often discriminated against for practicing their native culture and speaking their native language, so they often abandoned their language and traditions in order to get jobs, find housing, etc. They often had neither the time nor the inclination to keep up their old traditions and language. If they had, perhaps they would have passed them down more consistently to their children and grandchildren, and we would know more about our heritages. Also, since people of Irish (for example) ancestry are no longer discriminated against, we are now free to explore our our Irish identity. Actually this is a recognized sociological phenomenon, called “symbolic†or “optional ethnicity,†and it is a part of the continued process of assimilation.
Why is it strange to want to know the history of your family? People do this in every country of the world and have done it for thousands of years......You seem to be poking fun at the "pride" people have in their ancestory. I think that's a bit odd to me, if they know little about their ancestors, but simply being able to answer a question about the origins of your family is basic, even in the "melting pots" of the world.
I don't know if you're referring to me, but if so, I shoudl clarify that I am totally not poking fun - I'm just curious about others' opinions. I'm very much in favor of Americans exploring their heritage.
It's because a lot of people research it and then try to put on a superficial veneer of belonging to their ancestral culture, when in reality they don't fit it that well, and have ancestry from other cultures as well. There's also the feeling that a lot of white people just do it because they're jealous of how other races have a strong sense of their traditional culture, and this makes them look silly, being members of the dominant/primary culture anyway.
Basically, the sense is that people who are interested in it, are trying to appear more cultured and traditional than they really are.
I would respond to this, but Qlip alread said exactly what I would say:
Well, I honestly don't know anyone who uses their ancestry to look more cultured. It's more about feeling connected and curiousity.
What was said about language was referring to people who identify primarily with a culture whose language they don't understand which is not the same thing as being interested in your heritage or saying "I have Russian ancestry". Nobody said they were stupid or inferior for not speaking Italian, only that it seems strange to call yourself (primarily) Italian when you know very little about Italy and its culture.
Again, what I think is misunderstood here is that when an American says, "I'm Italian," that doesn't mean that they are claiming to be primarily Italian, or that they identify praimarily with Italian culture. We mean, "I have Italian ancestry," like you said above.
Why is it strange? Europeans get to be so certain of their history and lineage. Americans tend to have to trace our history and lineage because to even have a sense of the past...well, we must. Plus, often where your immigrant ancestors were from largely does affect your family for generations, whether you realize it or not. It affects accents, food eaten, religion followed, in some cases even socio-economic status.
It also conveniently answers the question, "Why was your grandfather so dark?" and "why does your sister look hispanic?" It's like, well, because we're Native American. And I can also tell you it makes a difference in genetic health problems, and sometimes even in some cultural tendencies...I think the Southern tendency to run around barefoot is rooted in Native American cultures. People from other parts of the country think it's positively freakish that I walk around barefoot outside so much.
I just love other cultures, anyway, and I would suspect that people who are deeply into it just like studying world cultures as I do.
Well said!
