do you prefer to live in illusion or reality?

[INTP]

illusion in this case meaning things like thinking that you understand some other person, when you actually dont, thinking that everything is fine with you and someone else when it actually isnt etc etc. vs reality where you know that you dont fully understand some other person, knowing that something is not fine between you and someone else.

my ENTP friend thinks that the illusion is all that matters, for me its the reality is all that matters.

imo if you live in illusion that for example something is fine between you and someone else, you cant do anything to fix it and you might do wrong things if you live by the illusion. or if communication doesent work, there is nothing you can do about it, if you think it does work. and if both people live in a illusion that communication does work, they can get derailed in different way in many things and in this case when the reality shows itself, you already have developed too many problems that might be too big to come over anymore. like imagine being in relationship with someone for years, then one day you realize that this person actually has no idea about who you are deep down, because he didnt understand you from the beginning and built his whole understanding about you based on illusion that doesent match the reality, and you have done the same. i think this kind of living in illusion can cause problems, but you wont know where the problem actually came from, until the reality of things hit you..

what do you guys prefer and why?

 

[slowriot]

wtf are you talking about? This is totally retarded.

I dont understand what this has to do with reality or illusion.

 

[Such Irony]

I prefer the reality over the illusion. The reality is likely more unpleasant but at least its the truth and INTPs do seek the truth.

 

[INTP]

wtf are you talking about? This is totally retarded.

I dont understand what this has to do with reality or illusion.

i dont know how to explain it to you better, unless you are more specific

 

[slowriot]

i dont know how to explain it to you better, unless you are more specific

come on, its not me that made the thread. What are you talking about? Its very badly defined words compared to the context you use it in. Is it subjectivity versus objectivity or pessimism versus hope ......

 

[Phantonym]

Isn't life an illusion we mistake for reality? No matter how much you try to make sense of things there is no way you could be sure that you've got it right. There is no guarantee that what you perceive as reality doesn't end up as an illusion down the road when you learn something else/new about yourself and everybody else that have an influence on your life. Everything is in a state of constant change whether you want it or not. People might lie to themselves, to each other, not even out of malice, but because they think that this is the way things really are, it's their reality that to someone else might seem like an illusion while they live their own illusion.

I would like to say that I'd prefer reality, but I can also understand the appeal of illusion. Ignorance is bliss. I can't really choose one or the other, I guess I'd like a healthy dose of them when either one is needed.

However, if you're outright ignoring the reality once it becomes evident that you've been mistaken about some things and keep on holding on to the illusions you've created, then that's a problem that doesn't go away. That is what I think people should be aware of.

 

[INTP]

come on, its not me that made the thread. What are you talking about? Its very badly defined words compared to the context you use it in. Is it subjectivity versus objectivity or pessimism versus hope ......

im talking about this:

Reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or may be thought to be.[1] In its widest definition, reality includes everything that is and has being, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible.

ofc you can see objective reality being the only thing that is real and subjective reality being false. but subjective reality can be correct when it comes to actual reality, so imo im not talking about subjectivity vs reality. also i dont understand what pessimism vs hope has to do with this.
if you mean pessimism as a state of mind that forces you to live in illusion that something is wrong because you judge it before understanding and hope as a state of mind where you see the reality and hope to make it all better. you could view this kind of things in from that point of view, but thats not the reality of what im talking about.

 

[INTP]

Isn't life an illusion we mistake for reality? No matter how much you try to make sense of things there is no way you could be sure that you've got it right. There is no guarantee that what you perceive as reality doesn't end up as an illusion down the road when you learn something else/new about yourself and everybody else that have an influence on your life. Everything is in a state of constant change whether you want it or not. People might lie to themselves, to each other, not even out of malice, but because they think that this is the way things really are, it's their reality that to someone else might seem like an illusion while they live their own illusion.

I would like to say that I'd prefer reality, but I can also understand the appeal of illusion. Ignorance is bliss. I can't really choose one or the other, I guess I'd like a healthy dose of them when either one is needed.

However, if you're outright ignoring the reality once it becomes evident that you've been mistaken about some things and keep on holding on to the illusions you've created, then that's a problem that doesn't go away. That is what I think people should be aware of.

i know that life is just an big illusion. but you see if you prefer reality over illusion, you want to know when you are living in illusion and how those things are in reality. and if you prefer living in illusion, you are just happy living the way things are even if it might not be the reality.

ill give an example about illusion and reality in social circles. someone might think that if they tell a lie to you about something, you would feel better about it. so whats happening here is that the person gives an illusion about the thing that he is lying about to protect you from reality of things. now the person who has been lied to is living in a illusion instead of reality. some people(like me) would prefer to live in reality instead of illusion, even tho the illusion would feel better. because if i would hear the reality i could sort things out or do what ever i would do if i would hear the real side of things.

 

[slowriot]

Okay, I dont understand the need to choose one over the other then.

 

[gromit]

Sometimes I don't want to believe something, even if it's true. But reality has a way of confronting you, eventually. I think the problem comes when we don't update our understanding of something as new information is presented.

 

[Nicodemus]

If you can choose between a real and an illusionary utopia, you will choose the real one. When we choose illusion over reality, then it is because the actual reality is less pleasant, not because illusion were inherently better.

 

[slowriot]

If you can choose between a real and an illusionary utopia, you will choose the real one. When we choose illusion over reality, then it is because the actual reality is less pleasant, not because illusion were inherently better.

yes in very specific situations. But we go between reality and concepts of reality in a fluid motion everyday. Therefore why choose one over the other?

Sometimes concepts of reality teach me more about reality than being confronted with reality ever would.

 

[Nicodemus]

But we go between reality and concepts of reality in a fluid motion everyday. Therefore why choose one over the other?

It just happens. Illusions are realities until we notice their true nature: the illusionary is real while we experience it. We cannot decide to believe what we know to be false. So whatever we believe, in that moment it is real for us. We can decide not to investigate whether our pleasant ideas are illusions or representations of reality, but we cannot decide to believe illusions.

Sometimes concepts of reality teach me more about reality than being confronted with reality ever would.

Yes, theories are designed to do that. We call it education.

 

[Tiltyred]

Illusion. Reality breaks my heart.

 

[rav3n]

Both reality and illusion are subjective terms.

Example:

Jack called me an idiot. I'm upset at Jack.

Both are statements sourced from subjective reality since the timeline of events is viewed as a snapshot. What you may have forgotten to include is that you called Jack a moron, three days ago. Widen the timeline and suddenly the reality becomes one of fantasy, where you are the innocent victim, where in reality, you're the instigator of hostilities.

So, neither. I prefer to attempt to attain as much information as possible, knowing there are no absolutes when it comes to the human condition.

 

[guesswho]

 

[INTP]

Both reality and illusion are subjective terms.

Example:

Jack called me an idiot. I'm upset at Jack.

ill quote this again since people dont seem to understand how reality is defined:

Reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or may be thought to be.[1] In its widest definition, reality includes everything that is and has being, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible.

reality is not an subjective term. it doesent matter if those two statements are sourced from subjective reality, they are still real when you talk about reality. how ever if you heard jack wrong and he didnt call you an idiot, then you would be under an illusion that he thinks you are an idiot, but in reality he didnt. in this case your anger towards jack is still reality, but its based on illusion, therefore its not justified.

reality can be both subjective or objective, but when subjective reality doesent match with the objective reality, it becomes an illusion about the reality, it may look like reality but it isnt, you only think that its reality, thats why its called an illusion..

 

[entropie]

Well we all live in an illusion. While we are talking here, pretending everything is fine, somewhere on the World kids are starving to death because they dont have enough food. This is reality to everyone, still it's a topic not too easily brought onto the table.

Even mbti is an illusion, even one of grandeur; cause what's really reality in it, the fact that only the belief of so many people in it made it a reality ? An apple will always fall onto the ground, but without human belief in their system of categorisation like mbti it wouldnt exist. What would you think if we for example would be all communists on the world ? Do you believe they would say then in the entp profile "they like to challenge the status qou", I doubt that. Would be more something down the line of "they enrich the people with their ideas".

I do not think you'll ever be able to separate reality from illusion, it's impossible. Still if you want to do it and have gotten infinitisemal close one day to reality, it will be really depressing and you will probably blow your own brains out

 

[FDG]

I like illusion best, as long as I don't get fined for it.

 

[rav3n]

reality is not an subjective term. it doesent matter if those two statements are sourced from subjective reality, they are still real when you talk about reality. how ever if you heard jack wrong and he didnt call you an idiot, then you would be under an illusion that he thinks you are an idiot, but in reality he didnt. in this case your anger towards jack is still reality, but its based on illusion, therefore its not justified.

reality can be both subjective or objective, but when subjective reality doesent match with the objective reality, it becomes an illusion about the reality, it may look like reality but it isnt, you only think that its reality, thats why its called an illusion..

What really is? But is it? A snapshot in time or a bigger picture? Is today reality or was yesterday? Were they both reality? How about history? How real is it?

Take China. Was it a reality that they chose isolation while in the heavy throes of communism or was it that they had no choice, embargoed by western nations and allies of such? Did they choose to have commerce and the friendship of the at the time USSR or were they forced into this unwelcome alliance?