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Most people think they're above average

Such Irony

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I was listening to the audiobook "The Invisible Gorilla and Other Ways Our Intuitions Deceive Us" and there was a chapter about how people tend to overestimate their abilities.

About 2/3rds thought of themselves as above average in intelligence.

The majority thought of themselves as more attractive and having a better sense of humor than average.

There was even a study of chess players, and the vast majority thought their chess rating underestimated their true ability by about 100 points.

So these examples suggest that we like to think of ourselves as above average, yet by definition, half the people are below average!

There were people who underestimated their abilities as well, but they were definitely in minority. (only about 4% of chess players in the study).

So I'm wondering if there is a type who is less likely to fall into this trap of not being able to accurately assess one's true abilities?

Are some types more able to realistically assess their abilities?
 

Sunny Ghost

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i used to be hard on myself. i used to think of myself as unintelligent, unattractive, and i'm not a very good chess player. (though i still like to play.)

but, as time when on and my confidence went up... so did my confidence in my intelligence, attractiveness, and personality.

i suppose thinker types are less prone to being self conscious or self depricating than feeler types. though it doesn't mean it's impossible. feeler types are more likely to be hard on themselves and consider themselves unintelligent, unattractive, and etc.
 

Thalassa

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So is this world wide or just in the United States?

Because I remember seeing this hilarious trailer for a documentary about American schools where American students fall below other 1st world developed countries in everything except...self-esteem.

That can't be good.
 
E

Epiphany

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So is this world wide or just in the United States?

Because I remember seeing this hilarious trailer for a documentary about American schools where American students fall below other 1st world developed countries in everything except...self-esteem.

That can't be good.

That makes sense. Oftentimes, ignorance and confidence go hand in hand.
 

Amethyst

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So is this world wide or just in the United States?

Because I remember seeing this hilarious trailer for a documentary about American schools where American students fall below other 1st world developed countries in everything except...self-esteem.

That can't be good.

Haha, I saw that one. It reminded me of that Idiocracy movie I saw a few years ago...but apparently a lot of things remind me of that movie. :shrug:

I think a balance of self-confidence and intelligence is best, or just at least a realistic view of one's own abilities.

I know that I'm not the best at everything. I know what I'm good at (mostly because of peers' assurance of what I'm good at) and I know what I need to work on, and I know what I will, for the most part, generally will lack. I always seek to improve in all aspects, though, even those that are my best qualities. There's always room for improvement. :yes:

EDIT: I drove past a local bar that had a sign on the outside saying 'Half of the world's population is below average'.

Average isn't measured by median, sillyz! :laugh:
 

Bamboo

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Keep in mind, that if 2/3 (~66%) rank themselves higher than average (50%) than a majority of those who think they are above average are accurate in their assessment, minus the smaller population of under-estimators. The group that is of concern is that 16% who are overestimating themselves. Most people, 84% (minus the under-estimators) in this example, do just fine with their self-categorization.

So while your title, "Most people think they are above average" is correct, it's misleading to say that most people have a problem with estimating if they are above or below average.

The real headline is "Small but sizable group of jack-wagons need to get over themselves already."
 

Bamboo

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Of course, that could be totally wrong.

It could be all mixed up and people categorize themselves backward, but I just wanted to use the word "jack-wagon."

As a hypothetical, 49% could underestimate, 50% overestimate (a total flip flop in that case), and 1% accurately categorize. But that seems unlikely.

It is possible that 50% really do overestimate (that is, "most"), but that also seems unlikely. 50% overestimation is the limit, you can't have 51% overestimation because 1% of those would have to be higher than the other 50.

In any case, the above post and the figures in it are only hypothetical and there are many configurations of the percentages of under, over, and accurate perceptions within limits.

However, I would still hypothesize that a vast majority of people accurately categorize and a minority do not in many examples.

So to the question:
So I'm wondering if there is a type who is less likely to fall into this trap of not being able to accurately assess one's true abilities?

Are some types more able to realistically assess their abilities?

An overwhelming majority (by my guess) can accurately assess their placement above or below 50%. I'd be more concerned about who cannot.

And you're probably unlikely to find that in MBTI, in any case. Whatever the profile is of the exaggerators, look out for that.
 

Keps Mnemnosyne

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So these examples suggest that we like to think of ourselves as above average, yet by definition, half the people are below average!

This is true only when the data follows a pattern called a normal distribution curve; the average is approximately equal to the median and the mode. Probably a moot point, as much data does follow such a curve, but it would be unwise to assume it. Otherwise it's the median that is 50% below or above.

Regardless, our ego lies to us to keep us healthy. The types least likely to fall for this fallacy, would be the types most likely to have a low self-esteem.
 

FDG

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Keep in mind, that if 2/3 (~66%) rank themselves higher than average (50%) than a majority of those who think they are above average are accurate in their assessment, minus the smaller population of under-estimators. The group that is of concern is that 16% who are overestimating themselves. Most people, 84% (minus the under-estimators) in this example, do just fine with their self-categorization.

So while your title, "Most people think they are above average" is correct, it's misleading to say that most people have a problem with estimating if they are above or below average.

The real headline is "Small but sizable group of jack-wagons need to get over themselves already."

Let's also consider how it's implied that the underlying phenomena follows a symmetrical distribution. While it may be true for IQ, given that tests are created in a way which constract a bell curve, it's not universally true.

In many occasions it might very well be true that 66% of a given population is "above arithmetic average": if a distribution has really fat left-tails, then the arithmetic average will be much lower than the median.
 

OrangeAppled

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I was wondering how "average" was being defined also....

And I am awful at chess....really bad. The computer beats me every time - dammit! But, I still might be smarter than the average bear :cheese:
I read somewhere (and god knows where) that one of the hardest things a person can accept is that they are not good-looking; some never come to accept it as reality. Lots will claim it, out of low self-esteem, but not out of a true acceptance. I think in their head lurks an image of a better looking person...

I think "average" is probably the larger concept harder to accept, though, and the hardest concept is being "below average". I think if people don't overestimate, they may prefer not to estimate at all. I know I am done with estimating my looks; no more comparison to others. I look good or bad in context of myself only (ie. I look good...for me) :tongue: .
 

LunarMoon

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I was wondering how "average" was being defined also....
Assuming that they used the IQ system to draw a conclusion, an average score would be 100. Anyone who has an IQ score one standard deviation above or below 100 is not average. Of course, IQ is a questionable measurement and most of these people probably extend their personal definition of intelligence (creativity, common sense, business savvy) into different territories than what the IQ test covers. Maybe they are above average in whatever the define intelligence as, since people do tend to glorify their own career paths and skill sets that they're good at. We really need a thorough viewing of the methodology to draw anything from this.
 

wildcat

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I was listening to the audiobook "The Invisible Gorilla and Other Ways Our Intuitions Deceive Us" and there was a chapter about how people tend to overestimate their abilities.

About 2/3rds thought of themselves as above average in intelligence.

The majority thought of themselves as more attractive and having a better sense of humor than average.

There was even a study of chess players, and the vast majority thought their chess rating underestimated their true ability by about 100 points.

So these examples suggest that we like to think of ourselves as above average, yet by definition, half the people are below average!

There were people who underestimated their abilities as well, but they were definitely in minority. (only about 4% of chess players in the study).

So I'm wondering if there is a type who is less likely to fall into this trap of not being able to accurately assess one's true abilities?

Are some types more able to realistically assess their abilities?

The STJs.
 

Thalassa

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^^^^^^^

Yes. And there are a lot of them, so that makes sense.
 

OrangeAppled

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Assuming that they used the IQ system to draw a conclusion, an average score would be 100. Anyone who has an IQ score one standard deviation above or below 100 is not average. Of course, IQ is a questionable measurement and most of these people probably extend their personal definition of intelligence (creativity, common sense, business savvy) into different territories than what the IQ test covers. Maybe they are above average in whatever the define intelligence as, since people do tend to glorify their own career paths and skill sets that they're good at. We really need a thorough viewing of the methodology to draw anything from this.

Yes, and IQ doesn't exactly cover attractiveness and sense of humor either. I mean, how is that measured? I think we can agree that some people are better looking than others & some are funnier, but defining the terms is another story....
 

William K

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When comparing themselves to the average, people tend to look at the local average instead of the global one since most of the time it won't apply. I'm of average height where I live, but in the NBA I'd be shorter than most if not all point guards!

One thing that the human mind can't seem to cope with is a large number of variables, so we simplify things as much as we can. I don't see that much wrong with overestimating one's abilities as long as it doesn't lead to overconfidence like a gunslinger thinking he's the fastest draw in the West. I think there is more of a danger from the reverse, where someone imagines everything they see on TV happens to common, average people :)
 

entropie

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I am definitly underestimated for my abilities ! Or wait that's the wrong word, whats means "zu wenig bewundert" ? something like, having not enough followers on facebook :D
 

Mephistopheles

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I am definitly underestimated for my abilities ! Or wait that's the wrong word, whats means "zu wenig bewundert" ? something like, having not enough followers on facebook :D

/smart ass on
Followers is Twitter. In fb, you have friends.
/smart ass off

There are just 2 problems about this statistic:
1.We don't know the real distribution; It's even possible that they have a bunch of people who are soo much worser that the average gets drawn deep enough, that, in fact, 2/3 are above the average, thus, they would be all right with their self perception.
2.We don't know the real "rank" of each one; It's possible that the lower 2/3 thinks they would be above average, while the higher 1/3 thinks they would be under average, thus, they would be all wrong with their self perception.

Or, in short, this statistic says nothing at all without further research. But, I'm glad to say to you, some guys DID further research: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

And, it's quite funny imho.
2.
 

nolla

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It probably serves these people well to consider themselves above average. It seems to me like you can achieve a lot more with self-confidence than intelligence.

Personally, I don't know how I estimate myself. On one hand, I do think that my intelligence is probably higher than average, but that could also just be my interest for most of the subjects they taught at school. On the other hand, I don't have anything to show, no great achievement or nothing like that. I can't even get and hold a job (even if I think that considering my lack of experience I am more capable than most in my job). So, what makes me so great then..?

There are pros and cons about any person, and while I think highly of my pros, my cons seem to be holding me back a lot. Then again, I think highly of my cons too. For example, I think that I am much more likeable person for not caring too much about details. This isn't so good career-wise, but hey, you can't get everything. If we defined average as someone who is relatively productive in doing what they expect us to do, I am so much below average. I mean, if everyone changed magically into people like me, economy would crash tomorrow.
 

Red Herring

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I am definitly underestimated for my abilities ! Or wait that's the wrong word, whats means "zu wenig bewundert" ? something like, having not enough followers on facebook :D

..."underappreciated". Entropie, everybody on here knows you´re the real stuff so the logical next step is to get everybody from your real life environment on the forum to see how you are venerated on here - problem solved.

I agree with what William K said about local comparison. You tend to move in limited circles and assume that everybody is like your next door neighbor and your work colleagues or class mates. Depending on the circumstances that can lead to frustration (i.e. I´m the only human being without a PhD, everybody can do what I do because my colleagues can, etc) or an ego boost (aka the one eyed among the blind) when you differ from that environment or think you differ from it (because, like, you know, everybody is special and stuff). On the other hand, if you identify with your environment and consider it to be the standard, you might consider yourself average no matter where your group stands. Hmm, not really sure yet if I got this right, gotta give it some more thought.
 

Rex

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I am work so i don`t have time for a long post but you have to consider that "dumb" people might be rated as normal to avoid them beeing hurt, getting inefective due to a feeling of uselessness ++.

So there is the goverment normal and the man in the street normal.

And no i have not read the entire thread yet. i will later.
 
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