Revenge of the Introverts

[skylights]

The article is so over-the-top.
Even I would have to turn in my extrovert membership card.

me too. i'm hardly extraverted by these standards, just by jungian ones.

It seems to think the following are typical of introverts:

• 
  
  yeah, that list is all over the place. it describes some Fi stuff, Si stuff, J stuff, etc...
  
  

  Which brings me to another annoyance: The title is "Revenge of the Introverts" and the subtext on the magazine says, "How to Thrive in an Extroverted World". The book mentioned is called, "The Introvert Advantage: How to Thrive in an Extrovert World". Where's the revenge? Where's the advantage?

  
  yeah, it's stupid. i think the advantages have a lot more to do with self-sufficiency and the ability to be alone, to be more original, to be more private and not need everyone to know your business all the time, to not need to get something out of yourself to know what you think.
  
  

  This article gives both introverts and extroverts a bad rap. It's not as if being one or the other is so horrific. Better yet, get to know your own personal limits for socialisation and hold true to them.

  
  
  
  

  Of course extroverts have been cursed by God. In Her ineffable wisdom the Godess crippled extroverts at birth. And with a touch of cruelty befitting a Goddess, She crippled them emotionally.
  
  So extroverts are condemned to roam the Earth just as the Flying Dutchman is condemned to roam the Seven Seas, forever. Deracinated, always longing for home, but never finding port.
  
  And informed by ressentiment, the extroverts have taken over the world, and their revenge is to let it be known that there is something wrong with introverts.
  
  And the great tragedy of life is that introverts believe them, and in response to this calumny have built a whole culture of therapy to cure a non-existent disease.
  
  But we wait in patience for the Messiah, a glorious introvert, bursting with emotional light. But the extroverts giggle up their sleeves and tell us, She is not the Messiah, She is just a naughty girl.
  
  And the Goddess weeps for us caught in the toils of the extroverts.

  
  are you or have you considered being a writer, Victor? as in, for the public? i think many people would enjoy reading what you have to say.
  
  

  Can we have an article like this on extraversion? I have no idea what it's like to be an extravert, but there are 1001 of these on introversion.
  
  I dislike the undertones of 'introversion is so complex it needs to be explained, but extraversion is simple and normal so everyone should know what it's like to be an extravert.' Maybe I read too far into it, but that's the general idea I get.

  
  me too.
  
  i don't even think the differences are so pronounced as many people would have us think. i always thought i was an introvert, but in reality i'm just a comparatively reserved extravert.
  
  i thought i would feel more self-confident if i was an extravert, but come to find out i am one, nothing's really changed, except that i've embraced my extraverted tendencies more and it makes me happier. i guess all along the "wanting" to be an extravert was realizing i was sort of subverting myself.
  
  i guess for me being an extravert, especially an ExxP, is mostly about being really affected by my environment. not in Se or Si terms - i'm kind of oblivious sometimes - but i have a need to act and interact, or at least to be in an arena where action is taking place. the downside of being an extravert is that i don't like to sit by myself alone much (alone with the internets is fine because i'm act/interacting), but alone in thought i don't like because i begin to get caught up in all of my own insidious worries and fears without the external world to help balance me. that's kind of embarrassing to admit, but it's true. i need external stabilization, and i like external motivation. i also feel a huge need to act in the external world. if i don't, then i don't feel like there's a huge point in my existence. it's lovely to be me but i also need to leave a mark on my environment.
  
  

  This is so true, and it's not really fair either, like on alot of job applications it is required to be very outgoing, be a teamplayer, and to have an assertive personality, seems like every damn job wants an extrovert.

  
  don't get too down on yourself. job applications and certain bosses always want an ESTJ, but we all know the person that's best for the job isn't always an ESTJ. the head of the company probably isn't even an ESTJ. we all have talents to use and maximize. and let's face it, being talkative and assertive isn't even extraversion, it's just Te and Fe.
  
  my point being, even us extraverts don't live up to being "extraverted". it's a dumb cultural standard that, like most stereotypes, is grounded in a truth (the usefulness of interpersonal skills) and when taken to the extreme is both stupid and harmful.

 

[Quinlan]

i thought i would feel more self-confident if i was an extravert, but come to find out i am one, nothing's really changed, except that i've embraced my extraverted tendencies more and it makes me happier. i guess all along the "wanting" to be an extravert was realizing i was sort of subverting myself.

I reckon if someone really wants to be a different type they probably actually are that type there's just something not type related (anxiety or something) getting in the way of it.

 

[Xenon]

Maybe the "slow thinking" is supposed to mean being slower to react and give feedback...? That can lead to being perceived as slow if you're in an environment surrounded by extraverts who react and respond in the moment and don't understand the need to process before engaging. Still, it's not about thinking "slower"; it's about how our minds work best under particular conditions. Extroverts might appear slow or unproductive if they don't get enough interaction or stimulation to be at their best. So I still find that assertion very misleading. And out of place in a book that claims to be "tooting the horns" of introverts.

I'm not an auditory learner - I find it very difficult to process and retain auditory information, esp. under pressure. I need visual input to really understand something. I don't know how common this is for other introverts but I think most of us struggle with noisy environments.

Yeah, I definitely like to have writing or something visual in front of me when I'm trying to take in information. I'm not bothered by noise as long as I'm not expected to interact with whatever's making noise. If the noise doesn't have anything to do with me or my task, I can block it out much of the time. In university, I used to set up my laptop and books on a table in a noisy building on campus that included a lounge, restaurants and stores. (I liked the large size of the tables there; it made me feel like I had more space to myself). One of my lab partners (pretty damn extroverted guy) saw me there and came up and asked how I could concentrate there. Never had a problem.

I read The Introvert Advantage too, and I thought it was pretty stupid except for the part on brain differences in introverts and extroverts -- which probably indicates that there isn't an introvert-extrovert continuum, but that you either are one or you aren't.

I thought that part was interesting too, but why would that indicate there isn't a continuum? Differences in activity in certain brain areas can certainly exist on a continuum.

Since I tend to be a fairly social introvert, though, I find that I am unduly influenced by other peoples' assessments of me (although moreso when I was younger). For example, someone says "why aren't you smiling? What's wrong with you?" and I really do start to wonder what's wrong, even though it had never occurred to me before that anything was wrong.

Maybe that's your Fe preference. FJs can be very aware of the effect they have on others, and often it seems to be an important part of their self-definition. My mother is ISFJ, and she seems conflicted a lot between wanting her space and feeling it's important to be friendly and perky if that's what others expect.

This is so true, and it's not really fair either, like on alot of job applications it is required to be very outgoing, be a teamplayer, and to have an assertive personality, seems like every damn job wants an extrovert.

I figured the "team-player" requirement just meant someone who is co-operative and takes responsibility for their role in a team. I can do that well enough. I assume 'assertive' has a good reason for being listed as a requirement when I see it, and avoid those jobs. 'Outgoing' bothers me though. I question why people think it's so important. I've done online questionnaires for retail positions that ask whether you like going to parties, or whether you tend to approach others or have them approach you. It's quite obvious they're looking for workers who will always march up to customers without hesitation and offer help. There was a thread here recently about interacting with salespeople and cashiers, etc., and I recall a number of people don't even like being repeatedly asked whether they need help. So why make up a team consisting solely of these personality types. I'd think it would work well to pick people in the middle of the spectrum, or pick a variety. It's not exactly a hard job; you don't need to be a party-person to do it. Gah.

 

[Mole]

Conversing in public with you.

are you or have you considered being a writer, Victor? as in, for the public? i think many people would enjoy reading what you have to say.

The public is dead so I converse with you.

Were I to broadcast to the public, there would be no reply, but when I converse with you, there is every chance I will hear your dulcet tones.

 

[Southern Kross]

We call Americans, loud mouthed Yanks. But it is all to do with child rearing. American children tend to talk and entertain their parents, while the parents listen. Whereas Aussie parents tend to talk and entertain the children, while the children listen.

So for Americans, talking and entertaining is deferential behaviour, while for Aussies it is dominant behaviour.

And for Aussies listening is deferential behaviour, while for Americans it is dominant behaviour.

So when Americans think they are being deferential, we see them as dominant.

No wonder we call them loud mouthed Yanks. It is a comedy of errors that has been repeating itself since WW II.

Geez, Victor. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Australians are pretty much just as loud and aggressive as Americans are in general. 'Deferential' is the last word I would use to describe Australian culture.

I have heard a lot of talk about the difficulty of being an introvert in the US. I do find Americans in general to be outgoing, gregarious, enthusiastic and expressive, which can be rather refreshing in comparison to my own, sometimes overly restrained, culture. What I don't know much about is this supposive strong pressure in the culture for introverts to conform to this ideal. Do any Americans here care to give their perspective on this? I just wonder sometimes if this pressure really that much more than in other vaguely extroverted cultures. This happens to me a little here in NZ, and I must say there are few things that annoy me more than people trying to 'cure' me of my introversion. :rolli:

 

[Mole]

Geez, Victor. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Australians are pretty much just as loud and aggressive as Americans are in general. 'Deferential' is the last word I would use to describe Australian culture.

We have different child rearing practices which lead to different behaviours indicating dominance and deference.

All cultures have their own way of indicating dominance and deference.

Usually it is quite rude to indicate dominance or deference openly and directly. So such behaviours are unconscious in those native to the culture, and are invisible to those outside the culture.

 

[Random Ness]

"Conversation between an introvert and an extravert can involve a series of misunderstandings. As the introvert struggles to follow multiple conversational threads and sort out his own thoughts, he remains quiet and appears to be just listening. The extravert reads that as engagement, a cue to keep talking. The introvert struggles with the continuing flow of input and soon starts to shut out the extravert, while nodding or smiling, or even trying to stop the exchange."

bahahaha! this happens between me and my best buddy (an ISTJ) on the bus all the time, I'll sit there rambling my thoughts on the world and he'll just tune out and give the occasional 'I don't know'. This happens simultaneously with the 'expecting the introvert to know' thing. I assume he knows more than he lets on, but really, that's not the case.

Lol, when I'm talking to a talkative extravert (not all extraverts are talkative), it usually goes something like:
Extravert: BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH
Me: *idea* So--
Extravert: --BLAHBLAHBLAH
Me: Um--
Extravert: --BLAHBLAHBLAH
Me: Hey--
Extravert: --BLAHBLAHBLAH
Me: Never mind.
Extravert: What?
Me: Oh! Uh...what was I going to say?

 

[Random Ness]

It makes me sad that introverts can be so bitter toward extraverts, thinking it's sooo easy to be an extravert.

I used to think I didn't relate to extraverts at all, but then I realized it is because the concept of extraversion is scary to me. To have a need to be around people, even when you're someone who hates people, to not be satisfied while doing something alone, to know more about others than yourself...freeeeaky.