Revenge of the Introverts

[rav3n]

*turns in her E-card*

Don't ask introverts why they're not contributing in meetings. If you're holding a brainstorming session, let the introvert prepare, or encourage him to follow up with his contributions afterward.

This is irritating. Most often, meetings are announced in advance with an agenda or at minimum, a reason is given for the meeting. It's not like introverts can't source information in advance, same as extroverts are also capable of doing. They're not incompetent.

This article gives both introverts and extroverts a bad rap. It's not as if being one or the other is so horrific. Better yet, get to know your own personal limits for socialisation and hold true to them.

 

[IZthe411]

I think the article tries to cover too much ground and ends up contradicting itself.

I have that book and I don't remember it being as annoying as all that.
I'm starting to wonder about this "slow thinking" thing though. My mind is pretty sharp. I'm usually waiting for other people to catch up.
If it takes me a long time to think about something, it's usually because it's not very interesting to me - i.e. I can't be bothered.

Same here, esepcially extroverts who need to talk it out for their own understanding, or feel the need to spell it out for the rest of us.

And I'm the same with it not being interesting- I'm not interested in investing the energy to go any deeper than surface.

 

[IZthe411]

This is irritating. Most often, meetings are announced in advance with an agenda or at minimum, a reason is given for the meeting. It's not like introverts can't source information in advance, same as extroverts are also capable of doing. They're not incompetent.

You are kidding, right?

An introvert can know what's going on the whole time and choose not to participate until you get to the good parts.

I'd rather not rehash the obvious.

 

[rav3n]

You are kidding, right?

An introvert can know what's going on the whole time and choose not to participate until you get to the good parts.

I'd rather not rehash the obvious.

Kidding about what? I disliked the way the writer made it sound, as if introverts needed pandering. They deserve more credit than she makes it sound.

 

[nanook]

i can't listen to all that shit all the time, i miss most of it, i have tons of nightmares about this issue, like being with a group in a foreign country, everyone parts and i don't know where they have planned to meet again. and i don't know how to navigate alone in this country, given that i would't ask anyone for directions. but at least i can think about philosophy and stuff and now i have plenty of time for it, too. so long, fellow human race.

 

[IZthe411]

Kidding about what? I disliked the way the writer made it sound, as if introverts needed pandering. They deserve more credit than she makes it sound.

My bad.

It seemed like you were saying that the way they participate is problematic.

 

[Salomé]

This is irritating. Most often, meetings are announced in advance with an agenda or at minimum, a reason is given for the meeting. It's not like introverts can't source information in advance, same as extroverts are also capable of doing. They're not incompetent.

I hate meetings. I'm quite happy to be meeting-incompetent if it means I get to not attend.
Most of what is discussed is a waste of time (IMO) so I tend to zone out and not know what the hell is going on. I'm not an auditory learner - I find it very difficult to process and retain auditory information, esp. under pressure. I need visual input to really understand something. I don't know how common this is for other introverts but I think most of us struggle with noisy environments.

 

[Quinlan]

That's not revenge, I want real revenge with blood and esplosions!

 

[rav3n]

My bad.

It seemed like you were saying that the way they participate is problematic.

No problems. Wondered if that was your perspective so I clarified.

I hate meetings. I'm quite happy to be meeting-incompetent if it means I get to not attend.
Most of what is discussed is a waste of time (IMO) so I tend to zone out and not know what the hell is going on. I'm not an auditory learner - I find it very difficult to process and retain auditory information, esp. under pressure. I need visual input to really understand something. I don't know how common this is for other introverts but I think most of us struggle with noisy environments.

Also more of a visual learner but had to learn to be an auditory one to some degree, since the job at the time, was around 80% meetings. Thought I would lose it until figuring out that body language, positioning, hard focus on speakers helped. This way, you can get a complete picture of where the speakers and the rest of the table are coming from. Then, when something didn't ring true, that's when you jump in like a sniper.

But...the best meeting ever attended was one where they served a killer carrot muffin. It was moist, not too sweet, full of carrots, whole wheat, cinnamon and the most delicious raisins. Don't recall the subject matter of the meeting.

 

[Mole]

Also more of a visual learner but had to learn to be an auditory one to some degree, since the job at the time, was around 80% meetings. Thought I would lose it until figuring out that body language, positioning, hard focus on speakers helped. This way, you can get a complete picture of where the speakers and the rest of the table are coming from.

Yes, meetings are about non verbal signals. The are about status signals. They are about power struggles. There are about forming and breaking alliances. They are about office politics.

All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. And a meeting is our stage, and we are the men and women. All we need to do is follow the dramatic movement and before long we will be caught up in the drama.

 

[Blank]

To jump on the bandwagon:

Yes, the article generalized way too much about what it's like to be introverted, especially since it name-dropped MBTI's brand of introversion. I score very high on introversion, yet I am able to do very well in meetings and in dialogs where there's an actual focus to them. I'm never afraid to speak up, and if anything, I can end up talking the most out of a group.

Nonetheless, there are other aspects of the article that are enlightening--like the research on the brains of introverts compared to extroverts. I personally liked the part about small talk, notably, the part where it brings up what not to ask an introvert; although, I do feel as though it presents an overgeneralized view of an introvert's reaction that makes it seem as though introverts can't even begin to cope with the tiniest change in environment or conversation.

Oh well, you win some, you lose some.

 

[Cybin]

Can we have an article like this on extraversion? I have no idea what it's like to be an extravert, but there are 1001 of these on introversion.

I dislike the undertones of 'introversion is so complex it needs to be explained, but extraversion is simple and normal so everyone should know what it's like to be an extravert.' Maybe I read too far into it, but that's the general idea I get.

At least then we can do some fun comparing and contrasting to discern defining traits as opposed to these that use common behaviors (typically common shy behaviors) as an end-all for introversion.

 

[Tiltyred]

I hate meetings, too. I just stopped going to them.

I liked that article very much. Of course it was a bit slanted against extroverts -- that was the whole point, to take the side of the introverts -- that is the "revenge," that someone is finally telling the story of life from the side of an introvert, as in "so there, extroverts!"

And what she was saying about conventional "happiness" is that introverts don't care about it as conventionally defined. So, OrangeApplied, I believe he was agreeing with you, no?

 

[Mole]

Caught in the Toils of the Extroverts

Of course extroverts have been cursed by God. In Her ineffable wisdom the Godess crippled extroverts at birth. And with a touch of cruelty befitting a Goddess, She crippled them emotionally.

So extroverts are condemned to roam the Earth just as the Flying Dutchman is condemned to roam the Seven Seas, forever. Deracinated, always longing for home, but never finding port.

And informed by ressentiment, the extroverts have taken over the world, and their revenge is to let it be known that there is something wrong with introverts.

And the great tragedy of life is that introverts believe them, and in response to this calumny have built a whole culture of therapy to cure a non-existent disease.

But we wait in patience for the Messiah, a glorious introvert, bursting with emotional light. But the extroverts giggle up their sleeves and tell us, She is not the Messiah, She is just a naughty girl.

And the Goddess weeps for us caught in the toils of the extroverts.

 

[Aquarelle]

Yeah, there were some generalizations, but I thought this article was great. I didn't think it was hostile towards extroverts - just sympathetic toward introverts for once.

I know there are a lot of articles about introversion out there, but compared to the popular media where we introverts are constantly bombarded by messages telling us we need to be more extroverted, a few articles telling us "It's okay to be an introvert!" is good by me.

I need to move to Finland.

 

[Lily Bart]

Good article -- one of the more sensible and helpful on introversion. I read The Introvert Advantage too, and I thought it was pretty stupid except for the part on brain differences in introverts and extroverts -- which probably indicates that there isn't an introvert-extrovert continuum, but that you either are one or you aren't. Since I tend to be a fairly social introvert, though, I find that I am unduly influenced by other peoples' assessments of me (although moreso when I was younger). For example, someone says "why aren't you smiling? What's wrong with you?" and I really do start to wonder what's wrong, even though it had never occurred to me before that anything was wrong. Or I still experience the occasional feeling of dismay when I'm reading something that I find illuminating and an otherwise intelligent author equates introversion with pathological behavior -- an idea that I thought had finally died a well-deserved death. Anyway, is it any wonder that introverts (quietly) cheer at phrases like "the revenge of the introverts"? Whether we live in an extroverted society or not (some) extroverts do put untoward pressure on introverts to behave in an extroverted manner.

 

[Robopop]

Whether we live in an extroverted society or not (some) extroverts do put untoward pressure on introverts to behave in an extroverted manner.

This is so true, and it's not really fair either, like on alot of job applications it is required to be very outgoing, be a teamplayer, and to have an assertive personality, seems like every damn job wants an extrovert. I also think introverts who try too hard to be extroverted(esp. of long periods of time) are in danger of their negatively effecting their mental health. In fact I have a teacher(who I suspect is an probable ENTJ) right now who wants me(and a couple of other quiet introvert students) to be more extroverted even though I can put out quality work better than most of the more outgoing students. I do understand the practical benefit of being more extroverted though(or at least having good interpersonal skills), but there are also VERY real benefits to being introverted that US society at large often ignores or discourages.

 

[Aquarelle]

This is so true, and it's not really fair either, like on alot of job applications it is required to be very outgoing, be a teamplayer, and to have an assertive personality, seems like every damn job wants an extrovert. I also think introverts who try too hard to be extroverted(esp. of long periods of time) are in danger of their negatively effecting their mental health. In fact I have a teacher(who I suspect is an probable ENTJ) right now who wants me(and a couple of other quiet introvert students) to be more extroverted even though I can put out quality work better than most of the more outgoing students. I do understand the practical benefit of being more extroverted though(or at least having good interpersonal skills), but there are also VERY real benefits to being introverted that US society at large often ignores or discourages.

SO TRUE!!!

 

[SilkRoad]

This is so true, and it's not really fair either, like on alot of job applications it is required to be very outgoing, be a teamplayer, and to have an assertive personality, seems like every damn job wants an extrovert. I also think introverts who try too hard to be extroverted(esp. of long periods of time) are in danger of their negatively effecting their mental health. In fact I have a teacher(who I suspect is an probable ENTJ) right now who wants me(and a couple of other quiet introvert students) to be more extroverted even though I can put out quality work better than most of the more outgoing students. I do understand the practical benefit of being more extroverted though(or at least having good interpersonal skills), but there are also VERY real benefits to being introverted that US society at large often ignores or discourages.

It is a more American thing, however, or at least North American (to a certain extent both Americans and Canadians have this in common - I'm a Canadian living in the UK.) I was told not that long ago at a job interview that I seemed "overconfident". So ironic. I very much doubt that would have happened to me even in Canada, let alone the US. Unfortunately, a lot of Europeans think all Americans are dumb braying asses. I'm not even exaggerating. I'm not even American, I'm Canadian and this attitude even annoys me, even when people say things like "oh, Canadians are so much nicer than Americans, blah blah blah." I just want to roll my eyes - it's definitely one of my least favourite things about Europe/Europeans.

I've been told far more times that I don't seem confident enough, or I'm not putting myself across enough as enthusiastic for the job, or whatever. I am a six foot tall female (thankfully skinny) and have a rather loud deep voice, which are things unrelated to my introversion! Combined with my North American accent, I think some people in the understated UK are going to take that as "overconfident". But I did find it ironic, particularly given that I am unquestionably an introvert. And though I now have a new job I'm fairly happy in, my recent evaluation with my manager included her assessment that I need to be more confident and assertive...

 

[Mole]

Dominance and Deference

...a lot of Europeans think all Americans are dumb braying asses.

We call Americans, loud mouthed Yanks. But it is all to do with child rearing. American children tend to talk and entertain their parents, while the parents listen. Whereas Aussie parents tend to talk and entertain the children, while the children listen.

So for Americans, talking and entertaining is deferential behaviour, while for Aussies it is dominant behaviour.

And for Aussies listening is deferential behaviour, while for Americans it is dominant behaviour.

So when Americans think they are being deferential, we see them as dominant.

No wonder we call them loud mouthed Yanks. It is a comedy of errors that has been repeating itself since WW II.