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The Psychology of Fashion

Quinlan

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Why do some people seem so invested in what others are wearing? Why must they point out and sneer at fashion "crimes"? What are some things you see as fashion crimes and why are they wrong? What compells the should and the should nots of the fashion world and the fashion police? Why is wearing the right things in the right context by the right people so important to some?

Are the fashion police being tongue in cheek or is there something more serious to it?

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Halla74

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^ I agree with you, Brother Quinlan. Live and let live. Why be so critical of petty shite like fashion? I think its yet another way for people with inflated self importance to boost their fragile egos by denigrating others. :thumbdown:
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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Quinlan, you are my hero. Fun topic!!! Good Ne masturbation material.

Why do some people seem so invested in what others are wearing?

Fashion is a way people signal their status. Since people are obsessed with their status vis-a-vis others, they are naturally obsessed with interpretting someone's fashion statement and making comparisons.

Why must they point out and sneer at fashion "crimes"?

It's a way of ensuring that their status doesn't rise so high above theirs that it threatens their self-esteem. Protect self-esteem=#1 priority for humans.

What are some things you see as fashion crimes and why are they wrong?

Girlfriend where do I start! I try and keep track of what the cool kids and doing and when they're avoiding.

What compells the should and the should nots of the fashion world and the fashion police?Why is wearing the right things in the right context by the right people so important to some? Are the fashion police being tongue in cheek or is there something more serious to it?

Those are all the same question as above.

Thanks!
 

OrangeAppled

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- Many view fashion as an art form, and like any art form, there will be critics of what is good and what is bad. People do this with the culinary arts as well. We all know taste is subjective when it comes to food (sometimes you just don't like something), but people still rate it and come to a consensus on what is "good". For some reason (usually a wealth of knowledge and experience), certain people are regarded as having more refined palettes, and their taste tends to set these standards. This is also kind of comparable to music critics - it's just people who know a lot about that subject and are considered to have refined taste. Call it an "expertise" I suppose. Being so subjective, the standards are very much questioned and debated as with any art. For people who like fashion, it can be interesting to discuss it as music & art can be interesting to analyze.

- In everyday life, "fashion" is more functional than anything. Outside of the obvious function to cover, provide warmth, shield from the elements, etc,
another function clothing serves is a social adhesive. To conform within the basic standards for your culture makes people comfortable and shows the correct attitude towards whatever function/situation you are in (ie. "respectful" or "casual"). This is why "appropriateness" is rather arbitrary and why it changes over time, just like fashion changes. In short, it's symbolic of what is considered the appropriate attitude for a context and is determined by some group consensus, where once again, there are a few of those "experts" leading the way. You could say that Fe is behind these values. This is possibly why SFJ profiles say they often have non-offensive "good taste" in their attire and home decor, if not exactly adventurous or aesthetically breath-taking.

Another function is to send & receive messages, which was touched on above regarding attitude towards a situation. People say "don't judge a book by its cover" because people DO form first impressions based on appearances. People make connections between aesthetics and non-tangible qualities. This may seem unfair, but people do it with everything - otherwise we'd never think about anything beyond its literal meaning. In the same way that we look at a painting or hear a song and a feeling is evoked from it, we can respond to the aesthetics of fashion.

So, fashion also provides a tool for expressing yourself wordlessly. You have control over how you present yourself, and it's not too difficult to figure out the connotations of certain clothing & styles. You can use it to your advantage, almost in a manipulative manner, or you can dismiss it and deal with the "consequences"; I find people who are "dismissive" towards fashion in a sense use fashion to express their feeling about it - they purposely ignore the aesthetics of their clothing & non-literal functions to make a statement. Other times, people who ignore their appearance do so out of a lack of self-worth - to the casual observer, the two can be confused. Making an expression of any kind leaves you open to interpretation and criticism. Some people express more "articulately" with their taste than others. How serious people take these expressions may depend on how they respond viscerally to another person's style, what underlying meanings they perceive.

As for shunning someone in everyday life because they dress "poorly" or "strangely", well, I personally agree that is ridiculous. I'm not "invested" in judging what other people wear, but I won't lie and say that I don't form some impression of a person - I have eyes and am affected by what I take in with them. I also do see the value in these Fe (& Si) standards of appropriateness & the harmony they seek to promote, but they definitely need to be shook up from time to time, and not allowed to become extremely rigid. Dress codes with specific rules annoy me a LOT. Basic concepts of what is appropriate do not.
 

Mole

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All is fair in love and war.

Fashion is the uniform of women.

So if we study the uniform, we study women.

For when a women becomes aroused, her eyes sparkle, her cheeks blush, her lips and nipples engorge, her breasts enlarge by about twenty-five percent and her hips tilt into the presenting position.

And fashion mimics arousal. Makeup and lipstick mimic sparkling eyes, blushing cheeks and engorged lips. And the brassiere mimics the increase in breast size. And high heel shoes tilt the hips into the presenting position.

Mimicry is normal in the animal kingdom, as many animals engage in mimicry to catch a mate. And when a women mimics arousal, she causes arousal in the male, who starts to think, not with his head, but with his gonads. But only mimicking arousal, the woman is able to think clearly and in the best interests of herself and her children. At this point the male is caught and lays his resources at her feet, in order to take her from mimicked arousal to genuine arousal.

And women of course adopt the uniform of fashion to give deniability to their mimicry. I mean if everyone is doing it, who can blame me. Don't be silly, it's just fashion.

But in fact women put on the uniform of fashion to engage in the battle of the sexes.

For all is fair in love and war.
 

strawberries

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fashion is obnoxious and i love it.

'personality begins where comparison ends' - karl lagerfeld.

Karl_Lagerfeld.jpg
 

nozflubber

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I believe the evolutionary psychologists would rightfully try to stake a claim on this one.

it has to do with the social reasons for why we monitor other human beings. in pro social mammals, it becomes of essential importance what the social order of the day is doing. This makes sense not only tribally (even in social rings of Bonobos, for biology example), but politically as many important outcomes come from political developments around us. What is the emperor of rome dressed like today? Would be an important question at key moments in that countries past, wouldnt you say so? Think of this behaviorally impacting people evolutionarily in all times of politics past - those who knew the emperor, or the barbarian warlord staff manager, was gonna go nuts had an advantage over those who thought everything was hunky dory.


so, logically, why not examine a persons fashion in order to infer or intuit some mental status to the person? that's basically what we're doing.... and we ALL do it. we all infer some mental status to the people around us, by verbage use and by clothing use.


there, ne'd that in ..... 7 mins. do i win teh prize, edahn?!
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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I believe the evolutionary psychologists would rightfully try to stake a claim on this one.

it has to do with the social reasons for why we monitor other human beings. in pro social mammals, it becomes of essential importance what the social order of the day is doing. This makes sense not only tribally (even in social rings of Bonobos, for biology example), but politically as many important outcomes come from political developments around us. What is the emperor of rome dressed like today? Would be an important question at key moments in that countries past, wouldnt you say so? Think of this behaviorally impacting people evolutionarily in all times of politics past - those who knew the emperor, or the barbarian warlord staff manager, was gonna go nuts had an advantage over those who thought everything was hunky dory.


so, logically, why not examine a persons fashion in order to infer or intuit some mental status to the person? that's basically what we're doing.... and we ALL do it. we all infer some mental status to the people around us, by verbage use and by clothing use.


there, ne'd that in ..... 7 mins. do i win teh prize, edahn?!

Sure, second place, since I Ne'ed the exact same thing 5 posts earlier in 3 minutes. :coffee:
 

OrangeAppled

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Fashion is the uniform of women.

So if we study the uniform, we study women.

For when a women becomes aroused, her eyes sparkle, her cheeks blush, her lips and nipples engorge, her breasts enlarge by about twenty-five percent and her hips tilt into the presenting position.

And fashion mimics arousal. Makeup and lipstick mimic sparkling eyes, blushing cheeks and engorged lips. And the brassiere mimics the increase in breast size. And high heel shoes tilt the hips into the presenting position.

Mimicry is normal in the animal kingdom, as many animals engage in mimicry to catch a mate. And when a women mimics arousal, she causes arousal in the male, who starts to think, not with his head, but with his gonads. But only mimicking arousal, the woman is able to think clearly and in the best interests of herself and her children. At this point the male is caught and lays his resources at her feet, in order to take her from mimicked arousal to genuine arousal.


Some of this is true regarding the really basic concepts behind what is considered attractive to wear. In everyday life, women seek to wear "flattering" fashion, which are basically clothes & makeup & hairstyles which emphasize those natural signals of being "sexy". Practical fashion tips focus on balancing the body proportions, applying makeup to enhance features but still look "natural", and to style the hair to look healthy.

Men's everyday fashion does this also - think about a suit for a moment. They emphasize broad shoulders, the tie is a phallic symbol, etc.

However, high fashion can be very subversive to these basic concepts. Just as with any art, it likes to challenge people's perspectives, especially when it comes to beauty and what is sexually attractive (as sexual attractiveness & beauty are not always one & the same). Example: you'll often see fashion playing with different silhouettes - ones which don't emphasize the natural form.

This is why the typical person turns their nose up at high fashion; "Who would wear that in real life? It's ridiculous!" or "That's ugly!". Women who embrace this end of fashion often do so because of the control it gives you over your own appearance, the creativity involved to set forth your own concept of what is aesthetically pleasing (or just interesting), the power to challenge what a woman is "supposed" to look like, etc. Most women just follow or are influenced by mainstream styles of dress, which is just to make themselves more attractive and/or to meet the requirements of appropriateness.
 

Lady_X

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for real! how boring to play by the rules! i would so wear avant garde style fancy costumey shit just for fun at lunch or go to the park if i could...screw appropriateness. :D
 

rav3n

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When an overly-obese woman wears a really short and flirty skirt, where it looks like a pillow fight from behind, it's difficult not to make a comment.

Same goes for men who have comb-overs or horrible toupées. Think Donald Trump.
 

Quinlan

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So if someone is not sufficently ashamed of something (fat) or is overly shamed by something (baldness) then there is a need to point that out. Fashion is about having just the right amount of modesty?
 

Moiety

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It's less about shame and more about knowing what's flattering.

Why even wear flattering clothes.

Fashion isn't the problem. Image-awareness is the problem. Don't people have something better to do? That's why I like to hang out with INTPs. They rarely care about that sort of shit.
 

rav3n

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Why even wear flattering clothes.

Fashion isn't the problem. Image-awareness is the problem. Don't people have something better to do? That's why I like to hang out with INTPs. They rarely care about that sort of shit.
Wearing flattering clothing enhances what you're given naturally, rather than detracts from it. There are any number of reasons to do so.

As far as INTPs not being image-aware, from my personal anecdoetal experience, I'll have to disagree although I don't know copious numbers of them. Cutting edge fashion probably not but we're not discussing cutting edge. We're discussing flattering clothing which as far as I'm concerned, includes the caveat "within reason".
 

Moiety

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Wearing flattering clothing enhances what you're given naturally, rather than detracts from it. There are any number of reasons to do so.

I know there are. Appearances.

As far as INTPs not being image-aware, from my personal anecdoetal experience, I'll have to disagree although I don't know copious numbers of them. Cutting edge fashion probably not but we're not discussing cutting edge. We're discussing flattering clothing which as far as I'm concerned, includes the caveat "within reason".

INTP are not devoid of image-awareness, they are just less image-aware IME that most other types.

Btw, as far as flattering clothes are concerned...don't forget that people aren't always aware of whether it's flattering or not. I have no idea of what I wear is flattering or not.
 

rav3n

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I know there are. Appearances.
That's a pretty definitive statement. Can you think of any other reasons?

Btw, as far as flattering clothes are concerned...don't forget that people aren't always aware of whether it's flattering or not. I have no idea of what I wear is flattering or not.
Is this the crux of your concern?
 

Moiety

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That's a pretty definitive statement. Can you think of any other reasons?

None that aren't tied to appearances. Well, apart from comfort. It can only be used for fashion or for function. Or for both.

Is this the crux of your concern?

No. It really is about people spending energy in the wrong endeavors.
 
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