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Don't cure Bipolar Disorder, ADD, Dyslexia, Autism, or Schizophrenia!

Kenneth Almighty

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I'm too tired to elucidate, but this is what I want to make a 20 minute presentation on in an ethics/philosophy course.

My two salient points would be:
-What defines normal, anyway?
-These people usually correlate with extreme intelligence and strengths in other areas (most geniuses are mentally disturbed)
-Causes discrimination and misinformation through misdiagnoses

I'd like to here thoughts on this, though, on why we SHOULDN'T cure mental diseases.
 
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JocktheMotie

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These things make people even more of a pain in the ass to deal with than people without these conditions.

So cure them.
 

Haphazard

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Typically diagnoses and help go to people who suffer ego-dystonic disorders (OCD, etc), or ego-syntonic disorders that cause harm to themselves or those around them (Anorexia, etc). Why is there a problem with this?
 

Ivy

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I'm too tired to elucidate, but this is what I want to make a 20 minute presentation on in an ethics/philosophy course.

My two salient points would be:
-What defines normal, anyway?
-These people usually correlate with extreme intelligence and strengths in other areas (most geniuses are mentally disturbed)
-Causes discrimination and misinformation through misdiagnoses

I'd like to here thoughts on this, though, on why we SHOULDN'T cure mental diseases.

I'm intrigued by your list of mental disorders we shouldn't cure. They don't all seem comparable to me. I would probably be much more invested in finding a cure (or rather, a successful treatment- see below) for schizophrenia and bipolar than for the others in your list since they are more disruptive and in some cases dangerous. Have you ever known a person with schizophrenia or bipolar? It's not fun. I'm sure most would welcome some respite from the symptoms. Though less severe, AD(H)D and dyslexia also present symptoms that I think most would like to be relieved of. People with autism seem to be pretty content the way they are, from what I can tell- the problem is that the rest of us would like to connect and join them in their world, and we often can't.

For the most part I don't think we'll have to worry about there being cures for them as I think most of them are neurological differences on a pretty fundamental (foundational) level. I don't really see how we could cure them without completely rewiring the brain. Treatment, though, is another story. Are you also against treatment for the things on your list?
 

Wild horses

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The only problem here is severity... what if they're mental illness is making them want to commit suicide! What if it is tormenting them to the point where they feel like death is the only escape... what happens when the low become so low and the highs more sparse that life seems not worth living and their work or genius points become less and less... Is it better to loose some of the genius than to lose all of it to the earth below our feet!?

Just throwing it out there because I began reading this thread totally against curing mental illness.... (Oh no does that make me like Tom cruise! YIKES if ever there was a case for meds HEE HEE) But I digress... anyways and then this thought popped into my head so being me I couldn't keep it off the page.. cos I often type before I think which comes as no surprise I know!?

But yea... so I'm not sure my standpoint now!
 

prplchknz

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disorcer! yeah I agree disorcer's shouldn't be cured. disorders how ever that's up for debate. if you've ever irrationally thought about killing yourself because you were so paranoid and thought the world was out to get you, when rationally they were just busy with school and other things you'll understand why sometimes its good to want help.

I mean to the point of you had it set up and got very close to doing it but then couldn't find your check book and you had to pay rent before you offed yourself. so you got drunk instead because it was all you could do with out your checkbook.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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You can't "cure" mental illness because abnormal behavior is defined by behavior that is not socially accepted and what is functionally acceptable behavior.

Mental illness is inexplicably linked with societal norms and functional norms. You cannot separate them without a police state or utter chaos ensuing. You can only "treat" mental illness because some of what the DSMV names as mental illness is socially defined (example until recently:homosexuality).
 
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nolla

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I'd like to here thoughts on this, though, on why we SHOULDN'T cure mental diseases.

Do you mean that even if the person wants the treatment, we shouldn't? Or that we shouldn't automatically try to treat them?
 

miss fortune

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Do you mean that even if the person wants the treatment, we shouldn't? Or that we shouldn't automatically try to treat them?

if it's the former, you (the OP dude) obviously don't have some of the disorders you listed there... and being told that it's bad to treat bipolar disorder is an asshole move- try it out for a while and see if you think the same thing :thelook:

if it's the later, you haven't seen someone in the thrall of some of those disorders wandering around in public have you? :doh:
 

Thalassa

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ah...hmm...it really depends on the disorder...I think your paper will fail if you grant equal strength to all of these illnesses and disorders ...one of the best ways to write an A paper in any event is to remember to point out the drawbacks or arguments AGAINST your primary thesis, and it's truthfully not logical to compare a crippling, life-destroying mental illness like Schizophrenia to something that can be more easily managed like ADD.

I agree that patients shouldn't be over-medicated and their natural strengths and differences should be celebrated. I strongly feel there is a place in society for all of the bipolar geniuses and schizophrenic artists and autistic mathematicians, etc. and it's doing both the individual and society a complete disservice if these people are treated as though there's no redeeming qualities about their personality and conditions.

Look into orthomolecular therapy, and start researching treatments that are less extreme for these conditions, and build your argument to prove how these people provide something valuable that is a total loss when it's over-medicated or treated strictly as an illness when in fact there are strengths these people have, just like everyone else.
 

Tigerlily

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Misdiagnosis, over medicating and being prescribed the wrong medication is a serious problem in the US. That being said, we've come a long way in regards to mental health care. Not treating depression, bi polar disorder, schizophrenia, etc. is a ridiculous suggestion. I'm curious to know what your thoughts are on the subject personally?

As for ADHD, I've been giving my son omega 3 and he has been a lot calmer and attentive in class. As for my anxiety, when I gave up drinking caffeine, my anxiety decreased quite a bit, so no need for lexapro. That didn't however deter my Dr from asking me if I wanted to refill my prescription for adderall even though I haven't taken that in years. :huh:
 

nanook

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its just stupid (lack of functional imagination=understanding how psychological structure functions, natural in teenagers) to believe that such a thing as pathology does not exist as something that is functionally different from a lack of pathology in a categorical way.

all that talk about insane people "are just different" makes only in so far sense, as most "normal" people are neurotic, meaning they are pathological too, only in a different way.

and that is because psychological pathology is not limited to the individual, ever, but types of pathologies meaning specific forms of structural limitations/blocks are.

non-pathology is an exception in a literally insane world/culture. nevertheless non-pathology is an ideal that must be strived towards. if that is correct english. therefore it must be destinquished from pathology.

there are like nine scientifically proven stages of developement and neurotic pathology as a mass phenomenon is indicated by how little percent of the population developes past the stage which is the home of a neurotic block, which is stage 3 or so, depending on how you count. human nature itself is struggeling to produce a functional fruit. we should facilitate.


thus the only valid reason against "cure", that i can think of, is that cure is frequently not possible, in clinical reality. it is, in those cases, a farce, mere violence, the patient is bullied into obedience to society, meaning that his pathology is converted into a more standart type of neurosis or personality disorder. the goal of the "cure" is ill defined and there are financial agendas behind such definitions.

one version is this "behavioral" therapy: you get treated poorly, and you get scared by their attempts to take away personal powers/independence (writing attests about your identity and capabilities, etc) so you learn not to ask for treatment again. then, if you can get a job, you are declared healthy. its god for the finances of a clinic, if they can mass produce "healthy" people in little time.

i take my experience from germany, of course. america is different but not better.
 

guesswho

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Oh don't worry....there's no fucking cure ...
But.
Why don't you want them to be cured?
Because by curing them you cure their 'genius' ?
What kind of argument is that?

Is mental pain less valid than physical pain?
Curing a broken leg is ok but...curing a person who suffers from BPD is ...not?

Oh...people get much more empathic when the pain is out in the open...and if you can actually see it.
 

Randomnity

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A lot of artists and writers have been inspired by their horrible childhoods or tragic events. Therefore, we should not try to remove children from unfit homes or try to prevent accidents, or try to save lives with medical treatment, because we could be preventing the development of the next Beethoven.

edit: [/sarcasm]

By the way, it'd be slightly less blatant cheating if you at least asked for points against your argument (so you could think about counterarguments). The whole point of a philosophy class is developing logical arguments, not stealing them off the internet.... :huh:
 

guesswho

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Psychosis isn't genius. That's where the (possible) genius ends, and the insanity begins.

What do you mean 'we should not try saving lives with medical treatment'? You should actually ask someone who suffers from Bipolar Disorder if 'he wants people to try to fix him with medical treatment'. You do actually realize that they are creative only when they are slightly manic, which doesn't really lasts as much as the depression. And some don't really get manic, just depressed. And depressed people are NOT creative. (not to mention the suicide risk). That's the price they pay.

The pain is invisible.

Are they worth 'trying to be saved'?

YES.

You just don't get it, because in the best case scenario, you are ignorant.
 

Tigerlily

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A lot of artists and writers have been inspired by their horrible childhoods or tragic events. Therefore, we should not try to remove children from unfit homes or try to prevent accidents, or try to save lives with medical treatment, because we could be preventing the development of the next Beethoven.
Seriously?
 

Synapse

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Probably some sort of subluxation, pinched nerves in the spine, gets the brain and body in a knot. unknot the body, unknot the mind. possible!
There is hypnosis too, quack like a chicken, because heavens an unhealthy endocrine system can't possibly be related to issues. possible!
I'm sure there are explainable reasons why people enjoy labels and feeling comfortable by them, I hope its not a medical pyramid scheme. Sort out the symptoms and give extra care and more drugs to counter drugs that have side effects on the side.
 

Vie

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O________o

I don't understand your argument. You are saying that because someone has a mental illness (I use that term loosely to describe some of the orders you say above), they should NOT be cured because of their contributions to society with their "extreme intelligence" and on the definition of normal being subjective?

Bipolar disorder disrupts a person's livelihood and most of the time causes great personal grief. ADD causes children and adults (although this one is very often misdiagnosed/overdiagnosed) to have great difficulties in everyday functioning such as excelling in school or in a job. Dyslexia?! Really, how could not helping someone with this be beneficial in ANY WAY!?

Autism!? People with severe autism may often be extremely intelligent, but what good does that do them or the people who love them if they can't even look people in the eyes or communicate? High functioning people with autism maybe, but those who are locked in their own heads? What kind of standard of living is that?

Schizophrenia? Aside from A Beautiful Mind ;s relatively happy ending about a genius who has paranoid delusions, I fail once again to see how not helping a person with this disorder is the right thing to do. Would you want to go around, not knowing what is real and what isn't? Second guessing everything you see or hear because it could be faulty? :doh:
 
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