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Jung Vs. Freud

Gloriana

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I don't feel completely qualified to choose since I've read hella more Jung than Freud.

There's a reason for that though. Freud annoys me, Jung doesn't. I dunno, I accept and acknowledge Freud is basically the grandpappy of most modern psychology and I respect a lot of his ideas. It's just, it seems when he goes wrong he goes like mega-mega wrong.

I don't think Jung is perfect, but his thought process and ideas appeal to me more because they're more fluid and pliable to me. More useful to a broader range of folks, not so rigid.

If that made any kind of sense.
 

Seymour

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I'd agree with your assessment of Jung, though without being able to cite examples, I am skeptical of what I interpret to mean "humane" in describing Freud. He is or was interested in humanity, certainly, but not too certain about his "humaneness" in personal quality, especially with regard to his relationship with other people. Speculative, but I thought I'd throw that out there...

I've just heard Freud described as a "deeply compassionate" therapist who was committed to his patients... which isn't the persona one gets from his writings. Of course, that's all umpteenth hand. That doesn't mean he was a paragon of virtue in his personal life, either.
 

Aleksei

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Gloriana, I think modern psychology was developed in opposition to Freud, rather than based on his ideas.
 

SecondBest

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I've just heard him described as a "deeply compassionate" therapist who was committed to his patients... which isn't the persona one gets from his writings. Of course, that's all umpteenth hand. That doesn't mean he was a paragon of virtue in his personal life, either.

Ah, OK. Fair enough. I could definitely see him being an excellent therapist, but yeah it's definitely not there in his writings - which was the only thing I was basing my speculation on.
 

Aleksei

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Emmilou

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I thought this thread was going to be about who would win a fight. How disappointing :(

Edit: If the topic shifts to that my guess is Jung. He was a big man. Although Freud would be all coked up so some crazy stuff would go down.
 

ThatsWhatHeSaid

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Gloriana, I think modern psychology was developed in opposition to Freud, rather than based on his ideas.

I'm not so sure about that. They might decry his theories and methods, but so much can be attributed directly to his innovations. The client-therapist one-on-one configuration (personal "therapy") was Freud's idea. The idea that one's history was relevant to resolving their issues was Freud's idea. Ego was Freud's. Avoidance, rationalization, and intellectualization to avoid certain anxieties...all Freud's. Maybe the behavioralists don't use Freud at all (agreed) but the Freudians, Neo-Freudians (Jung included), Gestalt therapists, and Transactional Analysts all rely on Freud's model significantly.
 

Zarathustra

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The idea that one's history was relevant to resolving their issues was Freud's idea. Ego was Freud's. Avoidance, rationalization, and intellectualization to avoid certain anxieties...all Freud's.

I think it's pretty safe to say that all of those ideas were expounded on by thinkers prior to Freud (thousands of years before, in some cases).
 

Poki

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I'm not so sure about that. They might decry his theories and methods, but so much can be attributed directly to his innovations. The client-therapist one-on-one configuration (personal "therapy") was Freud's idea. The idea that one's history was relevant to resolving their issues was Freud's idea. Ego was Freud's. Avoidance, rationalization, and intellectualization to avoid certain anxieties...all Freud's. Maybe the behavioralists don't use Freud at all (agreed) but the Freudians, Neo-Freudians (Jung included), Gestalt therapists, and Transactional Analysts all rely on Freud's model significantly.

:doh: Did someone actually have to come up with the bolded idea?
 

Lark

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I thought this thread was going to be about who would win a fight. How disappointing :(

Edit: If the topic shifts to that my guess is Jung. He was a big man. Although Freud would be all coked up so some crazy stuff would go down.

I think Jung, he travelled to the East and probably picked up Kung Fu.
 

Lark

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Freud gave psychology a big kick in the ass to move it forward. Even if his theories are now obsolete, and one may ridiculize some of his stuff, I admire he had balls to start this.

To me he's quite an inventor/explorer.


----------

Most NFs I know are quite attracted to the zodiac.
Mom has a ton of books about this, she used to read all that stuff to me...it was interesting.

Is it NF if you have "loads of books on it", I mean, wouldnt reading and then theorising and applying be NT rather than NF?

The thing about the Zodiac and esoteric ideas is that rather than simply dismiss them all Jung deconstructed them and looked for perrenial ego and consciousness serving symbolic concepts, pretty awesome, more useful than simply suggesting it was all repressed sexuality as Freud did.

Also I reckon that Jung was better than Freud because his theories about repression and projection took into account the degree to which emotion or affect where repressed, in all instances, rather than sexuality or emotions attached to sexuality.

That said I think properly understood Freud is not as crazy as a hell of a lot of people make out, the Oepidus (spelling) and Electra complexes existed in cultural frames for reference for a long time before and since his theorising, although not strictly or exclusively sexual the status of child-parent relationships vis-a-vis parent-spouse can be pretty important.

Reich and Alex Lowen where nearer the mark in their version of the complex. Likewise Jungian analysis of the complex as relating to an archetype or archetypical relationship, symbolically, as opposed to exclusively sexually, just makes more sense.
 

Zarathustra

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Is it NF if you have "loads of books on it", I mean, wouldnt reading and then theorising and applying be NT rather than NF?

Let's not forget that:

INFJ dom loop = Ni+Ti
ENFP dom loop = Ne+Te

NFs definitely seem to be interested in reading and theorizing.

I think it's their F component being stronger than their T component that tends to make them more open to astrology.
 

Poki

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Is it NF if you have "loads of books on it", I mean, wouldnt reading and then theorising and applying be NT rather than NF?

SP is about realizing how it all plays out based off of experiences you have already had. Was reading a book about "stubborn children" and all kinds of situations with adults, myself included played out within the book even upto 50+ years old, yet this book was written about children.
 

Lark

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I still associate reading, theorising and applying knowledge, in that sequence with NT.
 

Zarathustra

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That shouldn't be to the exclusion of NFs engaging in those same activities, though...
 

Lark

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That shouldn't be to the exclusion of NFs engaging in those same activities, though...

I wouldnt exclude anyone from this sort of pattern of cognitive functioning but I would say that empathising, theorising and experiential learning as opposed to applied knowledge would be a pattern which I could consider more congruent with NF.

Although each to their own really, while fitting the respective types I think it can be and is pretty nuanced, it can be eschewed as a result of training, ideology, work, family, all those kinds of things.
 

Poki

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I still associate reading, theorising and applying knowledge, in that sequence with NT.

With me its reading-understanding-applying knowledge. I see way to many people think they understand and then theorize ontop a theory and apply based on that false understanding. I just feel like going :doh:
 

Lark

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With me its reading-understanding-applying knowledge. I see way to many people think they understand and then theorize ontop a theory and apply based on that false understanding. I just feel like going :doh:

Perhaps I know what you mean but I think there's a dichotomy between book learning and experiential/emoting led learning, of course a combination of the two is the win but people will be just inclined more to one or the other.
 

Poki

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Perhaps I know what you mean but I think there's a dichotomy between book learning and experiential/emoting led learning, of course a combination of the two is the win but people will be just inclined more to one or the other.

But why are we limiting this to F? If we are not then where is experiential thinking?

Book(outside) learning - F based or T based
Experiential(inside) learning - F based or T based

I am exiting this though as I know nothing about Freud or Jung. I am more about experiential learning and I have yet to experience them.
 
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