Authentic Happiness

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Wisdom and knowledge
Courage
Love and humanity
Justice
Temperance
Spirituality and transcendence



Knowledge does not lead to happiness, wisdom does.
Courage leads to happiness, but it can also lead to a short life.
Justice is largely beyond our control.
Love, humanity, temperance, spirituality and transcendence can all add meaning to our life.

 

[mippus]

I agree with Liquid Laser.
These are virtues that indeed may well be universal. However, I do not see the direct link with happiness.
A feeling of justice, for example, may well be a condition for happiness, but it will not bring you any in itself. Same goes for knowledge. Courgage -to me- even seems totally irrelevant in this respect.
But then again, these are just labels, maybe I do not grasp their meaning well enough.

 

[ygolo]

Wisdom and knowledge
Courage
Love and humanity
Justice
Temperance
Spirituality and transcendence



Knowledge does not lead to happiness, wisdom does.
Courage leads to happiness, but it can also lead to a short life.
Justice is largely beyond our control.
Love, humanity, temperance, spirituality and transcendence can all add meaning to our life.

I agree with Liquid Laser.
These are virtues that indeed may well be universal. However, I do not see the direct link with happiness.
A feeling of justice, for example, may well be a condition for happiness, but it will not bring you any in itself. Same goes for knowledge. Courgage -to me- even seems totally irrelevant in this respect.
But then again, these are just labels, maybe I do not grasp their meaning well enough.

In my interpretation, it is not that these things lead to happiness, but that they are universally acknowledged virtues.

As such, exhibiting these virtues would make one a more virtuous person.

As a caveat, I need to say that the virtues are not actually exhibited virtues unless in service of others.

Claiming to be wise and knowledgeable without offering wisdom or knowledge to others is not virtuous. Being courageous towards selfish ends is not virtuous.....and so on.

IMO, that being virtuous can lead to great sacrifices on the part of an individual (within reason, unless as an act as a martyr). These sacrifices in turn provide meaning. In turn, this meaning leads to more Authentic Happiness.

If in addition, you are using your signature strengths in service of these virtues, there ought to be a profound sense of meaning, because you will be able to sacrifice much more of yourself.

If in addition, you have a good deal of positive effect due to good social support, you can sacrifice with a smile on your face, and others will likely appreciate it more.

 

[FDG]

Given how research says that happiness is hard-wired in our genes, I can only believe this. I can then say I am probably one of the lucky ones since I generally rarely feel much negative emotions except for short bursts. I'm not sure as to what's the source of it...yes I am good at some of the things I do, but much of it comes from the fact that I like doing them. And the fact that I like doing them comes from the fact that being naturally happy well, I just like doing most things, except the obviously painful ones. Maybe somebody that likes doing only a few things is bound to be less happy? Hard to understand really.

 

[Athenian200]

Given how research says that happiness is hard-wired in our genes, I can only believe this. I can then say I am probably one of the lucky ones since I generally rarely feel much negative emotions except for short bursts. I'm not sure as to what's the source of it...yes I am good at some of the things I do, but much of it comes from the fact that I like doing them. And the fact that I like doing them comes from the fact that being naturally happy well, I just like doing most things, except the obviously painful ones. Maybe somebody that likes doing only a few things is bound to be less happy? Hard to understand really.

That's mildly confusing to me... happiness hard-wired? I don't get it. Happiness to me is a special feeling you get once in a while when everything is just right. Most of the time you just go along in a mildly negative or neutral state, but hoping for a little more. I always thought that's how it was for most people...

 

[FDG]

That's mildly confusing to me... happiness hard-wired? I don't get it. Happiness to me is a special feeling you get once in a while when everything is just right. Most of the time you just go along in a mildly negative or neutral state, but hoping for a little more. I always thought that's how it was for most people...

Well, my writing wasn't really aimed at being clear, it was a stream of consciousness. Anyhow, I generally feel pretty good; I've had more stressful periods of my life (short lived) where I felt neutral-to-negative, and the difference between now and then is very marked. Of course I can always hope for something better, but I don't feel like I need it. Sometimes when I am too happy for no particular reason (in spring for example) I tend to let the more important things of my life slide away a bit (like school), provided that I have enough money to live well.

What I mean by feeling good:
- High levels of energy
- Sufficiently high level of self-confidence
- Wanting to talk with other people and laughing easily when you do
- Generally being happy and focussed in doing what you should do, be it working or studying
- Optimism
- Not feeling like what I'm doing is being forced upon me, but that it's my choice to do so
- Stable mood, in the sense that negative events do not change the positive baseline feeling

The time intervals in which I was feeling worse were mostly characterized by a prominence of the negation of the last two conditions: I felt like I was doing something out of necessity, and also my mood was far from being stable.

 

[Athenian200]

Well, my writing wasn't really aimed at being clear, it was a stream of consciousness. Anyhow, I generally feel pretty good; I've had more stressful periods of my life (short lived) where I felt neutral-to-negative, and the difference between now and then is very marked. Of course I can always hope for something better, but I don't feel like I need it. Sometimes when I am too happy for no particular reason (in spring for example) I tend to let the more important things of my life slide away a bit (like school), provided that I have enough money to live well.

What I mean by feeling good:
- High levels of energy
- Sufficiently high level of self-confidence
- Wanting to talk with other people and laughing easily when you do
- Generally being happy and focussed in doing what you should do, be it working or studying
- Optimism
- Not feeling like what I'm doing is being forced upon me, but that it's my choice to do so
- Stable mood, in the sense that negative events do not change the positive baseline feeling

The time intervals in which I was feeling worse were mostly characterized by a prominence of the negation of the last two conditions: I felt like I was doing something out of necessity, and also my mood was far from being stable.

That's weird... I would describe what you just called normal as an elevated or ecstatic condition for me, and what you described as stress to be my baseline, or average state. If I were as happy as you usually are all the time, I think I would feel terribly overstimulated. So in some weird way, I guess I just don't mind being a little unhappy.

 

[FDG]

Yeah, that's what I think ptgatsby refers to when he says that extraverts are generally more happy than introverts, psychologically speaking. Introverts' nervous system might not be able to bear such a baseline state of stimulation.

The bad sides of this conditions are that sometimes I'm restless when I am going through a task which requires a lot of pain-staking thought and work, and also that sometimes I may go through periods of a bit of insomnia (sleeping 5-6 hous a day instead of 8). [I can also be slightly megalomaniac/self-centered, but not in a negative way I think, generally just as a joke].

What I'd refer to as elevated or ecstatic state is not something I could sustain on everyday terms either, really. It happens to me when I'm biking over a mountain that I suddenly feel ecstatic at watching the plains under me, but that feeling comes with such a rush that leaves me not able to reason and sometimes puts me on the verge of crying. Not something good to live in this world, imho.

 

[ygolo]

Happiness in Sligman's book is given by the following equation (given for symbolism I think more than being an actual equation)

H=S+C+V

Where H is happiness, S is the biological "set" level of happiness (where you return to after the effects of particular events wear off), C is your life circumstances, and V is the use of positive psychology.

S was found to be just biological.

C comes down to adequate social support, in the forms of positive socializing, marriage, and support that comes from religious/spiritual communities. This is consistent with extraverts being happier generally. It is also consistent with the study than proteanmix brought up showing that "being extraverted" increases the level of positive affectivity in a person. Being listened to without being judged is an incredibly simple and powerful form of social support.

Wealth can have an adverse effect if in poverty, a slight positive effect if it keeps increasing. Health can affect happiness if many chronic illnesses come together. The subjective assessment of health is most important.

V is what is offered in his book. Granted, this has more to do with "life satisfaction" than the more usual meanings of "positive affectivity" or lack of "negative affectivity."

Actually, life satisfaction is what I think about when I consider happiness.

 

[heart]

What I'd refer to as elevated or ecstatic state is not something I could sustain on everyday terms either, really. It happens to me when I'm biking over a mountain that I suddenly feel ecstatic at watching the plains under me, but that feeling comes with such a rush that leaves me not able to reason and sometimes puts me on the verge of crying. Not something good to live in this world, imho.

I will get this way about ideas or music. I always put down to Fi. I have it quite often. It is just part of my life.

 

[FDG]

I will get this way about ideas or music. I always put down to Fi. I have it quite often. It is just part of my life.

Yeah it happens to me with music too, not much with ideas though.

 

[ygolo]

I will get this way about ideas or music.

Me too.

 

[cascadeco]

What I'd refer to as elevated or ecstatic state is not something I could sustain on everyday terms either, really. It happens to me when I'm biking over a mountain that I suddenly feel ecstatic at watching the plains under me, but that feeling comes with such a rush that leaves me not able to reason and sometimes puts me on the verge of crying. Not something good to live in this world, imho.

I get that way too at certain times...although it doesn't make me want to cry, it makes me incredibly joyful. But I don't think anyone could maintain that sense of elevation...even if one could, the elevation itself would become old hat, and the elevation would become your new 'baseline' and would become ho-hum, and then you might be tempted to surpass even that.

My high highs are high (haha) precisely because they don't happen just every day. Makes them that much more special and meaningful. If I never went back down to baseline, or more 'normal' state, I wouldn't have any point of reference for what IS really good (on the same token, what is really bad..at least in terms of my emotional state - My 'bad' might be perfectly manageable for someone else; I really have no idea).

 

[ygolo]

Marriage

So, I read a little more from Seligman's book.

The final part of the book is called "In the Mansions of Life." It talks about work, love, raising children, etc.

I was particularly struck by what was written about marriage:

Marriage, stable pair-bonding, romantic love--for the sake of economy I call all these "marriage" throughout this chapter--works remarkably well from a Positive Psychology point of view. In the Diener and Seligman study of extremely happy people, every person (save one) in the top 10 percent of happiness was currently involved in a romantic relationship. Perhaps the single most robust fact about marriage across many surveys is that married people are happier than anyone else. Of married adults, 40 percent call themselves "very happy," while only 23 percent of never-married adults do. This is true of every ethnic group studied, and it is true across the seventeen nations that psychologists have surveyed. Marriage is a more potent happiness factor than satisfaction with job, or finances, or community. As David Myers says in his wise and scrupulously documented American Paradox, "In fact, there are few stronger predictors of happiness than a close, nurturing, equitable, intimate, lifelong companionship with one's best friend."

There's a lot more like that. It touches on depression and even on some evolutionary explanations.

What do you think about the idea that a good marriage is so amazingly robust at predicting happiness? Not surprising that marriage is good, but so good?

What are peoples ideas about happy marriage? (or happy "stable-bonding" if you prefer)
How is it done? (By now, people familiar with my posts should know that I would ask "how")

 

[heart]

Marriage is the joint result of the two people who join in it and how healthy they are in themselves and how happy they are with their lives. jmo. Some people would find more happiness in marriage and some people would be happier single. I think it is an individual thing.

 

[Athenian200]

Marriage is the joint result of the two people who join in it and how healthy they are in themselves and how happy they are with their lives. jmo. Some people would find more happiness in marriage and some people would be happier single. I think it is an individual thing.

I agree with this. I think a marriage is only as good as the people in it. If you have two people who aren't secure or happy, marrying them isn't going to make them better people. If marrying brings them that security, then it helps them, but it's not the only thing that brings it. And it doesn't always bring it. Sometimes it can create stresses in people who were fine before marriage. It's quite individual.

So my take is that you should only marry someone because you care about them and really want that relationship with that person, and not seek a marriage just to be married for what you think it will bring you. You know what I mean?

 

[heart]

Certainly people who know themselves and know they would be happier single, need to remain true to themselves and not cave to other's expectations.

 

[ygolo]

These are good points. It is certainly possible that what is happening is that happy/healthy people get and stay married in happy/healthy relationships.

Cause and effect (or mutualy root causation, cyclic causation, etc.) can't be discovered too easilly from these studies.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I think that if the two people in the relationship are relatively healthy and also ready for a commitment then they will make each other happy.