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Traits of Females who are abandoned by/lose their father at a young age

Spamtar

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Anybody got any theories on this? Any MBTI/enneagram typing correlation?

My experience is that as adult they either get clingy or the "apparent" opposite. I don't know about MBTI type but as far as enegram seem often to fall into the enegram "head types" 5-6-7
 

Totenkindly

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I think it depends on type as well as the prior relationships with mother, father, other authority/parental role figures, and even just other people in the environment (including siblings).

In other words, the response is typically individual, unless we are going to be VERY broad in our probable outcomes.

Even the age matters, and since cognitive abilities change rapidly in the younger years, I think there is a difference between a two year old losing a father and a five year old... not to mention how much more time there was for an adult figure to become part of that child's world and now the world is being altered drastically.
 

Spamtar

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I think it depends on type as well as the prior relationships with mother, father, other authority/parental role figures, and even just other people in the environment (including siblings).

In other words, the response is typically individual, unless we are going to be VERY broad in our probable outcomes.

Yeah lets be VERY broad about these broads ;-). Feel free to give various examples

I.e. Feeling types, those who had rough experiences with the remaining parent (i.e. mother), those who had a cool step parent vs. those with abusive step parent and where or if any of these subtypes share any similarities...
 

Salomé

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Yeah lets be VERY broad about these broads ;-). Feel free to give various examples

I.e. Feeling types, those who had rough experiences with the remaining parent (i.e. mother), those who had a cool step parent vs. those with abusive step parent and where or if any of these subtypes share any similarities...
God, you are soooo creepy.

If you're interested in theory buy the Riso-Hudson Enneagram book. The thesis is that each of the 9 types has a different attachment profile (to primary care-givers) - so your Thinking Triad theory isn't consistent with that. I can't remember the details and can't be bothered to find them for you. Especially if you plan to use it as part of your PUA arsenal.;)
 

Totenkindly

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Oh, yeah... attachment theory -- the theory in general is helpful even without enneagram or MBTI conversation.

The stuff in Enneagram is based on Karen Horney's work but also is very similar to what is in formal object relations/attachment theory. We've got:
Moving towards (placate): 2, 6, 7
Moving away (detach): 4, 5, 9
Moving against (antagonistic): 1, 3, 8

As Morgan says, this isn't a matter of the heart-head-gut triad, it's the "movement style" triad instead.

Directional Theory
Interesting page here, which shows short term goals (the numbers I gave above) with supposed long-term hidden motives.
 

Spamtar

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God, you are soooo creepy.

If you're interested in theory buy the Riso-Hudson Enneagram book. The thesis is that each of the 9 types has a different attachment profile (to primary care-givers) - so your Thinking Triad theory isn't consistent with that.

They never called Sigmund Freud creepy...strike that I guess they did.

Now that you mention it there is a 9 vibe I get from many of them too. Several 2s too so I might be off on my head trip. Definitely seem to be a majority of 7s (which gave me the Thinking Triad theory).

This point in Risos/Hudsons "The Wisdom of the Enneagram" seems to strike a cord as far as 7s relationship with the remaining parent. "The Seven's childhood is flavored by a largely unconscious feeling of disconnection from the nurturing figure (often, but not always the biological mother)....

[spamtar side note there is a consensus that often the single mother nurturing role becomes side-tract with the new duel masculine duty as disciplinarian/physical (as opposed to emotional) provider.]

...Genearally speaking, Sevens are sensitive to a very deep frustration resulting from feelings of being cut off from maternal nurturing at an early age, as if they had been taken away from the breast too soon (which may have literally been true in some cases). In response , young Sevens unconsciously "decided" to nurture themselves"

Now this isn't exactly on point but it raises ideas of how it might be when there is a disconnect from the father (as opposed to or in addition the mother) and might tweak the personality development and lead to common psychological patters/profiles.

Feel free to throw in your own wacky theories or ridicule others...
 

Spamtar

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Oh, yeah... attachment theory -- the theory in general is helpful even without enneagram or MBTI conversation.

The stuff in Enneagram is based on Karen Horney's work but also is very similar to what is in formal object relations/attachment theory. We've got:
Moving towards (placate): 2, 6, 7
Moving away (detach): 4, 5, 9
Moving against (antagonistic): 1, 3, 8

As Morgan says, this isn't a matter of the heart-head-gut triad, it's the "movement style" triad instead..

Clever...me likee
 

Salomé

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Directional Theory
Interesting page here, which shows short term goals (the numbers I gave above) with supposed long-term hidden motives.
That was interesting. I haven't seen this bi-directional nature of attachment theory explored before... It does make quite a lot of sense.
 

Totenkindly

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They never called Sigmund Freud creepy...strike that I guess they did.

Webster's entry for Creepy: "See Freud."

Now this isn't exactly on point but it raises ideas of how it might be when there is a disconnect from the father (as opposed to or in addition the mother) and might tweak the personality development and lead to common psychological patters/profiles.

Well, I think it's going to be even more confusing in western culture, since while gender stereotypes still exist, the roles of both parents have been becoming more egalitarian with the ability of women to work full-time and the father to stay home, or whatever other arrangement you can imagine.

IOW, the outcome might or might not be just gender-related (since a girl might still see her mom as the model and her father as animus, for example); it will also be role-based (i.e., the nurturer vs the provider, or something like that).

That was interesting. I haven't seen this bi-directional nature of attachment theory explored before... It does make quite a lot of sense.

I hadn't seen it either, but as soon as I skimmed it, I mentally bookmarked it for further examination. There was some great sense there about underlying inclinations, including Two's and Five's ultimately wanting control.
 

Spamtar

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Well, I think it's going to be even more confusing in western culture, since while gender stereotypes still exist, the roles of both parents have been becoming more egalitarian with the ability of women to work full-time and the father to stay home, or whatever other arrangement you can imagine.

IOW, the outcome might or might not be just gender-related (since a girl might still see her mom as the model and her father as animus, for example); it will also be role-based (i.e., the nurturer vs the provider, or something like that).

Yes I could see how the environment/culture could have a impact or lessening of impact (i.e. Little Debbie having "two Daddies" or "two Mommies" would likely be less disruptive in San Francisco than Tupelo, Mississippi. But perhaps there is also a genetic element hardwired into the kids head...? A duel nature/nurture element I suspect and differing effects on the impact of the male child than the girl regardless of neighborhood/environment.
 

angelhair45

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I'm interested in this as I DID lose my dad at a young age. I KNOW it affected me in certain ways. I don't believe it affected my type, but may have contributed to pushing me into my "shadow" or whatever you want to call it.
 

Salomé

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There was some great sense there about underlying inclinations, including Two's and Five's ultimately wanting control.
Yeah. That stood out to me too.

It ties in with Fives integrating to Eight - Eight being the power-seeking type.
INTP 5s definitely have this tension between wanting ultimate control over their environment and person and at the same time not wanting to be bothered by anything/one. I guess those are two sides of the same coin.

INTP 9s solve the problem of not being bothered in a different way. It's all pretty interesting.

/derail
 

Spamtar

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I'm interested in this as I DID lose my dad at a young age. I KNOW it affected me in certain ways. I don't believe it affected my type, but may have contributed to pushing me into my "shadow" or whatever you want to call it.

Would you (or anyone else who did lose or was abandoned) by their dad at a young age elaborate on how you think it affected you?
 

angelhair45

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Would you (or anyone else who did lose or was abandoned) by their dad at a young age elaborate on how you think it affected you?

It might be easier if I were asked questions.

Long term effects. I will never be the person who thinks, "that will never happen to me". I know it can happen to me, or you or you. I realized life is not certain.

I think, if I had had a solid support system when he died I would have fared much better. Sadly I was an extrovert who could barely figure out what to wear without talking about it, yet I had no one to talk with about such a traumatic event. I had to introvert to deal with it, and that is what made me feel alone and isolated for many years...

Really it affected me in a lot of ways, I'm not sure where to start, but I'm an open book, so ask away.
 
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Night

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Really it affected me in a lot of ways, I'm not sure where to start, but I'm an open book, so ask away.

If I might ask, do you believe his absence had a net effect on your social/romantic choices?
 

rowingineden

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Hmm. My biological father was prone to neglecting and psychologically abusing me, and died when I was 8. I'm not sure if I fit your criteria or not, since I never really thought of him as my "real father" - I think of my stepfather as being my "dad". Granted, I tend to be pretty distant from my dad, too, because he is very curmudgeony and loud and long-winded. The only way this seems to actively affect me these days is that I have difficulty trusting and I like to be somewhat in control in a relationship.

I was with a girl whose father had recently separated and then divorced her mother - she was very initially clingy but then very distant emotionally soon after. She was very anxious and depressed, overemotional, impulsive, and immature - I think she had gone through a regression. She put me in the role of a replacement father. *sigh*
 

InTheFlesh

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I thought it was known that when a daughter is abandoned by her father it is more likely that she will end up as an Enneagram type 4. What I've found is that many 4's have an extreme fear of abandonment, rooted from their father or mother emotionally or physically abandoning them when they were young. They also seem not to have a general awareness of who they are as a person because one or both of their parents were gone and they had to try to figure out who they were by themselves, which is nearly impossible for a child in most cases.
They also have that drive that makes them believe they are different or unique, which also could be related by losing a parent. The child could subconsciously think "Hmm, those other people all have two parents and I only have one, why am I different?" Fours often don't know why they are different, but they just have that thought rooted deep in there mind.
Moreover, they often have a craving for attention which once again, could be related to a missing parent. They could possibly just be searching for that limitless attention that they never received from a parent.

These are all just possibilities, I'm not trying to say this is the only way it happens.
Sorry it was so choppy
 

Levitas

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I am also someone who was abandoned by their father at a young age. I was three years old when my parents divorced. Afterward he remarried and disappeared. This affected me tremendously as a person and in my relationships with others.
 

Spamtar

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I am also someone who was abandoned by their father at a young age. I was three years old when my parents divorced. Afterward he remarried and disappeared. This affected me tremendously as a person and in my relationships with others.

Moreover, they often have a craving for attention which once again, could be related to a missing parent. They could possibly just be searching for that limitless attention that they never received from a parent.

Yes I am interested in how it affects relationships interpersonal and particularly romantic relationships. Trust seems to be either limited or very intense but short lived or very often wanting repeated assurances/physical presence. Another aspect is a particular sensitively to criticism, especially by someone who is close (i.e. even when complemented noticing those parts of the complement that are less complementary then the main gist of the complement. For example I have noticed in some different voice either 1) a little girl voice well into adulthood or 2) an emotionally fluctuating and animated voice [sometime with a angry or brooding tone] or 3) a quiet shy voice or 4) a mixture of the above. I don't know if this is symptomatic it is just anecdotal and wondering if this fits a profile.

I would also ask those who have gone through this whether surviving this experiance has given you specific gifts or strengths and what they are?
 

Levitas

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Yes I am interested in how it affects relationships interpersonal and particularly romantic relationships. Trust seems to be either limited or very intense but short lived or very often wanting repeated assurances/physical presence. Another aspect is a particular sensitively to criticism, especially by someone who is close (i.e. even when complemented noticing those parts of the complement that are less complementary then the main gist of the complement. For example I have noticed in some different voice either 1) a little girl voice well into adulthood or 2) an emotionally fluctuating and animated voice [sometime with a angry or brooding tone] or 3) a quiet shy voice or 4) a mixture of the above. I don't know if this is symptomatic it is just anecdotal and wondering if this fits a profile.

I would also ask those who have gone through this whether surviving this experiance has given you specific gifts or strengths and what they are?

Personally I can be very distant with people and in particular, people of the opposite sex. I tense up when around men of my own age and older and at the same time I yearn for their attention but I do not initiate anything for that attention. Once around certain guys I can be somewhat comfortable with them but it takes a long while. Sometimes years. I'm not completely sure why I am like this but I believe that I'm afraid that I'll get close to them and then they will hurt me in someway, and I'm not talking about them just leaving. In terms of my voice I can have that shy authoritative voice but when I'm around people I know very well and am comfortable with I have a different tone. Some of my friends even say I sound condescending or even bitchy when I don't even realize I'm doing it.

Going through something like this isn't easy in the slightest but I feel that it has made me more self aware in how my actions effect other people. Learning from how my father's actions have effected me.
 
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