Types and the flow

[KDude]

To my mind the signature preference among the MBTI relating to `flow' is the only one not attributable to Jung: the J/P preference, which David Keirsey has said has more to do with closure VS open-endedness than either `judging' or `perceiving' per se.

I'm inclined to believe that those who prefer P to J would be more inclined to experience flow, but I suspect that J types can if they feel well-bounded between supposed beginnings and supposed dead-lines for any of their paint-by-numbers regions of time on their calenders, itineraries, or daily schedules.

J-ness could still entail Fi though, right (even though I'm a P type)?

Because that's all I'm joking about (being emo). I don't get situated in actions/experiences so easily. I'm not an extrovert (or rather, so into the P function that I forget everything else).

 

[Udog]

That's a great diagram, wolfy.

I've understood flow as being a state that's possible whenever the challenge is slightly above the current skill level. It makes sense, though, that we already have to possess SOME skill first.

I can't think of any way to connect this to specific types, though.

 

[Nonsensical]

i'm too emo for the flow

i kind of prefer it that way.

but when i'm there, it's all good. i just.. usually don't care anymore.

That's what apathy is. it's opposite flow...but sometimes can be similar.

 

[KDude]

It's not apathy necessarily. I'm slightly tongue in cheek there with the emo thing. It can be apathy. Usually it's something more serious, something I find worth paying attention to more. In the same way perhaps an INTP might get real stuck in their thoughts/Ti-like.

 

[slowriot]

right...like when you have something really hard to do and as a p you procrastinate...it's overwhelming...you don't know how to get started you don't want to do it...and then the moment strikes...it's got to be done and you do it...and you're fast and efficient...it just flows...like a writer who's blocked for days and sits down to write a novel.

Lady X I concede, you make sense in that.

 

[Such Irony]

What do you say, would some type be more prone to have the flow experience than some other type?

I have a thought that a flow would be more important to people with strong preference to Ne. Any comments?

I've always associated flow with being totally in the present, one with the task on hand. I associate it more with Se.

 

[Udog]

I've always associated flow with being totally in the present, one with the task on hand. I associate it more with Ne.

If it's only about being totally in the present, I'd give the edge to Se.

I think any person that's working in their element of strength (or enjoyment) can achieve a state of flow.

 

[Quinlan]

Surfing is effortless?!

I think of flow as being completely in the moment, I'd say it's like a pure Se state where you drop every other function and just focus on responding environment. It's almost unconcious.

But that's probably just my biased Se take on it.

 

[XYZ]

I would imagine achieving a state of flow would involve use of all your 4 concious cognitive functions in harmony, most likely starting by having your dominant and auxiliary combo highly stimulated.

I think any type would be capable of achieving it, but it would depend on what kind of activity they are involved in.

 

[wolfy]

I can't think of any way to connect this to specific types, though.

 

[Coriolis]

I'm inclined to believe that those who prefer P to J would be more inclined to experience flow, but I suspect that J types can if they feel well-bounded between supposed beginnings and supposed dead-lines for any of their paint-by-numbers regions of time on their calenders, itineraries, or daily schedules.

J types, or at least NJ types, are less bound by calendars, itineraries and schedules than by goals. When working with focus toward an important goal, we can even lose track of time. In fact, many times when I experience flow are associated with making significant headway toward a goal. I have planned everything out, done the research, addressed the pitfalls, received the approvals, etc. etc. Flow occurs when I start the implementation, and everything falls into place as it should.

I think any person that's working in their element of strength (or enjoyment) can achieve a state of flow.

Yes. Even N's can exist in the present, though it may be in our own heads!

 

[SilkRoad]

I haven't really read through this thread, but I think I have notably experienced this through music. It is not a natural state for me - I wish it was! I associate it with Se and skilled athletes, musicians etc.

I played the piano for many years when younger and there were moments when I would play a piece of music and it would just, well, flow. It was a beautiful feeling physically, both relaxing and exhilarating, and my head would just feel empty but in a good way... Unfortunately, often after a short time I would start to think again and that would wreck it. I think I also experience it when at a great concert and "out of my head" in a good way (not with the aid of drugs!! Though maybe a bit of alcohol!) and just caught in the moment. It's strange, I guess it's physical sensations but it feels far beyond physical, more transcendent.

 

[KDude]

I get it in music sometimes, but my mind often veers off into a lot of pickyness about tone, timbre... the production side, I guess (rather than performing). And if people are around, it's more difficult. I could notice that some people might not appreciate where I'm coming from (just by remembering that they once dissed a band I liked or that they had lousy taste in general), or I could just be with a few friends, and someone comes in and intrudes my little "sanctuary" at the time, so I don't play anything. I'm not in the "zone".

 

[SilkRoad]

I get it in music sometimes, but my mind often veers off into a lot of pickyness about tone, timbre... the production side, I guess (rather than performing). And if people are around, it's more difficult. I could notice that some people might not appreciate where I'm coming from (just by remembering that they once dissed a band I liked or that they had lousy taste in general), or I could just be a with a few friends, and someone comes in and intrudes my little "sanctuary" at the time, so I don't play anything. I'm not in the "zone".

With me playing classical music on the piano, it would most likely be the nasty little voice of doubt intruding. "Are you sure you know what comes next?" Boom. Mistakes time! So frustrating. It was always a lovely feeling while it lasted but it almost seemed like pure chance if it would last or not. If I was lucky, it would happen when I was performing or doing a music exam.

EDIT: By the way, if that's how your mind works when you play, do you think production might actually be your forte??

 

[KDude]

^Yeah, but the way things are going, where production/recording has become more accessible, and more and more people build home studios, it's not like they need a hand or anything. I think the era of exclusive engineering jobs is kind of dying out. Except in film or sound design.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

I associate this with the single-minded, energised euphoria of an aha moment that leads to hyperfocus and a greedy immersion in the moment, whether it be the discovery of a new book, new music, project work, new software, design, idea development or pursuit of a research thread.

The MBTI manual has an interesting graph on obliviousness in each of the types. I am most likely to be totally oblivious to time of day, physical needs and what goes on around me when in this mode.

 

[KDude]

^I could totally imagine an INTP could do this in their own way. You said software..now I have some image of a programmer just hashing away at code or something. So yeah, maybe it's not just a Se thing. [edit] not to stereotype intp as programmers or anything...

I could also see it in writers. Kerouac wrote On the Road in a 3 week binge, on one continuous roll of paper.. he was in a sort of flow.. and the process of writing wouldn't drawn upon concreteness, per se.

 

[InsatiableCuriosity]

^I could totally imagine an INTP could do this in their own way. You said software..now I have some image of a programmer just hashing away at code or something. So yeah, maybe it's not just a Se thing.

LOL - the software I refer to is graphics and prepress software, both new programs or versions, or any new tool that will enable me to better communicate an understanding of that graphics software to students

The only programming I have done in years is database development work related to my teaching needs.

I am currently exploring and training the MacSpeech Dictate program so that I can still develop new learning materials while a a slight tear in a shoulder tendon repairs itself (hopefully). I have been known tho to stay up until 3am or after to explore all of the new listed and unlisted features in new program versions. I call it playing

 

[KDude]

Even so, you got me thinking

I also get the flow in some video games.. that's kind of the purpose of some of them. Like Tetris, for example.

There seems to be all types of flow.. one where you can perform well with details or speed (or both), one where it's a sort of an immersion in ideas and data gathering, or in an output of ideas (sometimes working with highly abstract frameworks, like with programming).

 

[SilkRoad]

I also get the flow in some video games.. that's kind of the purpose of some of them. Like Tetris, for example.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh yes! I love Tetris! My brother and I used to play it loads, and we were aware that it felt so natural and it was almost at an unconscious level, we referred to it as being like a "bodily function"

I was playing Tetris recently when under a lot of stress from other sources and it was so interesting because I found that part of my mind was still thinking about the stress, but I became really detached and relaxed so that the emotional and physical sting of the stress temporarily disappeared. It was great!