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Jealousy: It shows you care

When I see jealousy in my partner, it is generally a...

  • xNTJ: positive thing...

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  • xSTP: positive thing...

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  • xSFP: positive thing...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • xSFP: negative thing...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • xSTJ: positive thing...

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • xSTJ: negative thing...

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  • xSFJ: negative thing...

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  • Total voters
    27

Arclight

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Some well worded explanations.

But I still think there are many more positive and effective affirmations than jealousy.

"Gee Hun I feel insecure around you"
"Oh good, that shows you love me"
"Actually my darling, It more than likely shows signs of co dependency and low self esteem, and nothing says I love you like some good old fashioned co dependency and self loathing"
"I agree, interdependency and confidence are overrated"
"I am so glad we had this talk, I am off to the bar now"
"Ok, have fun, but not too much fun, call me every hour so I can confirm you aren't off banging some wench, OH and speaking of wenches, If Mary is there, you come home right away, she is always dressing sexy and I bet she had a tit job. remember.. I love you"
:coffee:
 

Totenkindly

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I'm surprised she lets you go to the bar.
 

Giggly

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"He who is not jealous cannot love" ~Andreas Capellanus: The Art of Courtly Love
 

Siúil a Rúin

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It looks like there are two sets of assumptions regarding the source of jealousy:

imagined fear combined with unhealthy control tactics.

responding to realistic problems and taking responsibility for one's contribution towards a relationship.

The bar story a few posts up could also be dysfunctional if the person going to the bar was banging everyone and the partner had some sense of it, but lived in denial about it and sent them off with a warm hug wishing them a good time and spending a lifetime in blindness and passive hurt because they couldn't face the truth about the person they love. Instead they love an idealized false image of the person. Obsession with jealous feelings misapplied to reality is unhealthy just as a denial of those same feelings when problems arise in reality.
 

Magic Poriferan

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I can see the reasoning here.

If I did something that would, I think, be the kind of behavior that would insight jealousy, and there was no reaction from my partner at all, I admit that it would make me wonder if the person had any fear of losing me. And she doesn't have any fear of losing me, can she possibly want me? It's a disturbing train of thought to go down...
 

Lauren Ashley

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I am a possessive person and I prefer partners who are also possessive. My partners are very important in my life and I would like to be as important in theirs.

As for jealousy: I don't mind expressions of jealousy as long as it's not an everyday occurence and doesn't turn to psychologically or physically controlling the other person.

...I read the OP as referring to specific instances of jealousy, but it seems it was referring to general expression?
 

Arclight

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It looks like there are two sets of assumptions regarding the source of jealousy:

imagined fear combined with unhealthy control tactics.

responding to realistic problems and taking responsibility for one's contribution towards a relationship.

The bar story a few posts up could also be dysfunctional if the person going to the bar was banging everyone and the partner had some sense of it, but lived in denial about it and sent them off with a warm hug wishing them a good time and spending a lifetime in blindness and passive hurt because they couldn't face the truth about the person they love. Instead they love an idealized false image of the person. Obsession with jealous feelings misapplied to reality is unhealthy just as a denial of those same feelings when problems arise in reality.

I wrote the story.. I can assure you there is no metaphor in my story. It's blatant sarcasm illustrating a very specific point.

I never thought I would ever end up trying to defend the virtues of not being jealous.
It's confounding.

Maybe it's semantics or something??
 

cascadeco

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Well said. I was starting to think people might be picturing a variety of behaviors and feelings when they use the word, "jealousy". The following are a variety of problems I could have with a complete lack of it from a partner, and the following represent different types of partners, but they are all at odds with the ideal that pure love - no jealousy:

Presumption - the ultra-confident partner who is sure they have you regardless of how invested they are in your well being or treatment. If they leave you lonely, still there is no worries about the attention of other men because they are so proud that their sense of self thwarts reality. The truth is it is normal for people to have times in their life when they feel lonely or unvalidated, even with a partner. Others see it and can move in. To feel there could never be a threat regardless of personal investment and behavior is unrealistic. To then take the position that the person would have to be trash to cheat on someone as fabulous as oneself is just more of that imaginary, irresponsible worldview.

Apathy - to be with a partner and simultaneously okay with the loss of that partner can imply a half investment in the relationship. A person might not feel jealousy because inside they aren't entirely invested or sure they want the responsibility of the relationship, but they also don't want to initiate change. In this way the relationship might continue or end without investment. This offers a way to somewhat enjoy the moments in the relationship but with minimal risk to self. Just don't get too attached and then there are no hassles of jealousy or hurt.

Denial - one can also live in a rosey world where any behavior or situation is free of threat and problem. There is no reason for jealousy because we have a perfect trusting relationship that is above and beyond those selfish problems. There is never a reason for a threat because love transcends everything and trust is bliss.

Every relationship can deteriorate if taken for granted. The problematic jealousy imposes that risk of loss onto reality when it isn't there. It is the partner who interrupts a conversation between platonic friends because they are sure of competition and loss. My question for the non-jealous types is how do you deal with it when there is a threat to the relationship? What about when you have been away for work for a year? Or when you have played golf every weekend for five years and haven't realized that your partner feels isolated and alone? What about the presumption that can take place that blinds people to their partner's emotional needs that someone else starts filling? How do you react when that partner tells you they feel isolated and others are paying attention which is confusing them? No jealousy? Then when it all falls apart it becomes easy to blame the estranged partner as being worthless because you "trusted" them and look at what a horrible person they turned out to be, etc.

I really don't think I have anything to add to this; just wanted to say I think you outline some excellent scenarios and pose some great questions at the end. (and the bolded succinctly states why I think Jealousy in these sorts of discussions is equated by many to be a Very Bad Thing - the whole gray area of 'unfounded' jealousy based on the reality of the relationship)

I think all three 'types' that you outline illustrate why I find zero jealousy in a relationship a little unsettling. But, I also don't think jealousy requires insecurity or other more negative root feelings as its source; certainly jealousy *can* be a symptom of insecurity and codependency, but it isn't necessarily the case.

To be jealous of any and all interactions your partner has with another would probably be extreme. But for myself, if I didn't experience any little nervous flutter in my stomach if I felt my significant other was becoming too emotionally invested/close to another woman, or heck, showing excessive interest in having, building, and maintaining female 'friendships', well... that would be strange. And definitely vice versa as well. That would mean I wouldn't particularly care one way or another whether he was pulled in a moment of weakness or simply to fill something that was lacking in our relationship of which I was unaware. And if I didn't care - if I didn't have that twinge of worry or fear at possible consequences, well, for me it would mean I didn't view the health, intimacy, and closeness of our Relationship as being at stake -- when it fact it might be.
 

Arclight

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OK I am convinced now this is semantics.

Of course I care if my partner seems to be getting a little too close to someone.
And of course every now and then I am racked with feelings of inadequacy and worry my partner might leave me simply because I am not good enough.
But this confirms to me that I value my partner and need help with my self esteem.

I don't understand how this is a positive affirmation for my partner that I care. If it is.. It should be on the bottom of the list.

I can think of so many other ways to affirm my love and I would seriously hope my partner valued those over me being jealous.
 

Valiant

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"He who is not jealous cannot love" ~Andreas Capellanus: The Art of Courtly Love

Bingo. Love is an extreme, for one to exist there must be more.
Hate, love, passion, jealousy.
I've always found that people who seem incapable of jealousy don't have much of a depth or passion in their feelings.
That's quite ordinary, so it's probably just a temperament of sorts.
 

Tradewind

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I actually agree with YourLocalJesus on his first point.

It would make sense to also feel hate towards someone you love. You would hate to lose them or hate to have them as an enemy. You hate how vulnerable and exposed they make you feel but want that at the same time. And of course what you share is special so you become jealous when a threat to what you have enters into the equation.

When I deeply care for someone there is a whole melting pot of emotions underneath it all. But, people like this are few and far between.
 

Charmed Justice

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Jealousy shows you care about yourself in that it reflects a concern about being cared for by someone else, and are attached to a person who you hope will meet your needs. I don't think it has anything to do with love for that someone else.
 

Salomé

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I don't think jealousy is a sign that you care. It is more a sign of insecurity in oneself or the relationship or a sign of control issues.

I say this as someone who sometimes struggles with feelings of jealousy. It doesn't mean I care and it doesn't mean I don't care/distrust my partner. It means I have abandonment issues that I haven't completely overcome.
Yes. Jealousy is preemptive grief. It serves a purpose: to prevent the loss coming to pass by intervening in the situation. When the threat is real, it is a sound reaction; when there is no threat, it is pathological and damaging to a relationship.

I can't understand possessiveness and won't tolerate it in myself or others. It doesn't make me feel secure, it makes me feel claustrophobic. No one gets to "own" me, and I don't want to own anyone else.
I have been horribly jealous once and I hated myself for it. When I understood that's what I was feeling (INTP - takes a while), and the reason why, I got out. In that sense, it's a useful emotion, but no, it doesn't show you care.
 

Thessaly

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Jealousy shows you care about yourself in that it reflects a concern about being cared for by someone else, and are attached to a person who you hope will meet your needs. I don't think it has anything to do with love for that someone else.

Sure it has to do with love for someone else. It's just not the most emotionally mature manifestation of it.
 

Lauren Ashley

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Jealousy shows you care about yourself in that it reflects a concern about being cared for by someone else, and are attached to a person who you hope will meet your needs. I don't think it has anything to do with love for that someone else.

There are many reasons why a person could become jealous, so I don't think you can say that it is always motivated by a love of self and has nothing to do with the other.
 

Tallulah

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(uggh, just lost my post -- oh well, here goes another shot)

Sticking just with the OP right here (although I'd like to see responses to Toonia's stuff!), I think a little bit of jealousy shows some sort of connection, and indifference is not necessarily good. If someone matters to you, their absence will feel like a loss to some degree. And jealousy seems to me to be tied to a sense of loss or, maybe more realistically, a fear of future loss.

I miss my kids when I am not with them because I love them, and I can be jealous if they spend all their time with their friends. And when I'm in a committed relationship, I miss my SO when they're not present... and if they consistently choose something other than me as the object of their affections, I'm going to feel jealousy on some level ... even if I can rationalize it and understand that what they are doing at the time is necessary. I firmly believe everyone should have the choice to come and go as they please in a relationship, you can't force someone to be with you or do what you want; but at the same time, I am not obligated to give more of my heart to someone than what part of their heart they give to me. So while you cannot shackle someone to your side, you can offer stipulations of what you're willing to invest and what you expect in return, and negotiate the expectations of the relationship.

Like Marm says, it's not necessarily the feeling but the behavior that is right or wrong. You can either respond to jealousy to control someone else or you can choose to free them and free yourself. I also think being apart is not a bad thing, because it gives both partners things to bring back to the table. I might have missed my kids when they went to school all day or went away for a week to camp or to visit friends, but it was enriching to the relationship when they brought back new ideas and experiences to share.

After ending a relationship recently, I was sort of surprised to experience jealousy when my ex told me about things he was doing with mutual friends of ours who happen to live closer to him than to me. Yet, at the same time, I was happy he was finding ways to fill his time and other relationships to be involved in, instead of floundering and feeling alone. I saw my feelings as more of a positive, since it meant I did actually care about him, missed him when he was gone, and valued what we had together even if we'd ended it. (Did I tell him about how I felt? No. I figured it was just something I needed to deal with right now.)

I can agree with all of this. I guess for me, it's a sign for myself that I really care about someone, that I actually am invested in them and not indifferent. I'm sort of used to feeling fairly indifferent, so it's nice to have people to really care about.

Building on what Jennifer says, the twinge of jealousy, if experienced often (like when an SO chooses time and again to do something that takes them away from the relationship without making an effort to spend time with me) can be a sign that something is kind of unacceptable and needs fixing. I am secure enough to be away from my SO, but because of my fiercely independent streak, if I feel like I am being neglected, there's a good chance I am. :smile: It's nothing more than a reasonable need not being met.
 

Thessaly

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Love is the supreme manifestation of emotional maturity.

I stated jealousy has something to do with love and that is all I meant by that. We all succumb to more primitive emotions from time to time no matter how evolved we become. We are merely animals with brain power.
 

Salomé

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I stated jealousy has something to do with love and that is all I meant by that. We all succumb to more primitive emotions from time to time no matter how evolved we become. We are merely animals with brain power.
It doesn't have anything to do with love. Any more than domestic violence does.
 
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