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Getting rid of baggage.

King sns

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Anyone have any helpful hints of moving on from things of the past?
 

Synarch

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I presume you're talking about Romance, in which case, a new love extinguishes an old love.
 

Synarch

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internet-bro-fist.jpg
 

Mole

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Intoxication and Ecstasy

Anyone have any helpful hints of moving on from things of the past?

I keep everything from my past as though it were a precious jewel. As indeed it is. It is the jewel of understanding, for at the time of experience, I often don't understand what is happening. It is only when I can recollect in tranquillity, that I can collect my understanding. And then interestingly I can start to integrate one understanding into another.

If I discarded my baggage, I would be discarding the clues to my life. I would be left blind, emotionless, dumb and alone.

But I am surprised many don't feel the same as I do and merrily discard their baggage at the first opportunity. Who travels light, I tell them, travels alone. But their baggage is weighing them down so much, they feel they are drowning.

No, they want a new life. It changed my life, they say, when they meet something new. They want a new life; they want new relationships; they even want new furniture; they want to reinvent themselves. And they do.

They epitomise the whirlwind of creative destruction that offers intoxication but denies ecstasy.
 

Synarch

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They epitomise the whirlwind of creative destruction that offers intoxication but denies ecstasy.

I agree in general. But, we also have to learn to let go when it is time to let go. Many people scourge themselves bloody with the memory of the past. A memory that is clouded with masochism and regret. Memory is not reliable. We are predisposed to feel loss, even over things we should be glad to let go of. It is the same quirk in the human mind that makes it hard for people to throw out old clothing.

What is your definition of ecstasy and how does it differ from intoxication?
 

Lux

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With moving on from the past I tend to look at it as - it all made me who I am today. In that if anything had changed I would be different in some way, so I don't see the past as something to regret but something to spring from. And what Synarch mentioned about memory not being reliable is very true. Every time you replay a memory your current environment and feelings alter it in some way. So every time it is a bit a different than the last time you replayed it. So it is not worth beating yourself up over the past, it may not even honestly be an accurate memory. Take what you can from it, grow and learn, respect the past, but don't live there.
 

Mole

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Orientation

I agree in general. But, we also have to learn to let go when it is time to let go. Many people scourge themselves bloody with the memory of the past. A memory that is clouded with masochism and regret. Memory is not reliable. We are predisposed to feel loss, even over things we should be glad to let go of. It is the same quirk in the human mind that makes it hard for people to throw out old clothing.

Forgive me but there are two bits of baggage I want to throw out.

I want to throw out agreement or disagreement. And I want to throw out definitions.

For I don't care whether you agree or disagree with me. I presume you will do one or the other or somewhere in between. But it is irrelevant. It is existentially irrelevant.

Whether you agree or disagree doesn't change what I have said. So your only appropriate response is to say something of your own. In other words you can only add to the bonfire, you can't take anything away. What has been writ stays writ and the writing finger moves on.

I also want to throw out definitions because they are redundant, reductive and defensive. Definitions presuppose a teleology - a beginning, a middle and an end. But here we are engaged in the never-ending-conversation, free of any teleology at all.

So instead of asking for a definition, we would do better to ask for the relationship, the recurse or the gestalt.

I realise that throwing out the baggage of agreement or disagreement and the baggage of definitions leaves us disorientated. But it also leaves us free to orientate ourselves to the never-ending-conversation.
 

Synarch

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I only ask for definitions so I can know what you intend to mean.
 

Mole

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Breaking the Ice

What is your definition of ecstasy and how does it differ from intoxication?

Intoxication is derangement while ecstasy is stepping outside the taken for granted.

Intoxication is very tempting even addictive, while ecstasy keeps her eyes wide open with every breath as she strides into the new world.

Intoxication gently closes our eyes in a little sleep, while ecstasy is fully awake.

Our life is rounded with a little sleep and intoxication is merely a foretaste of death. While ecstasy breaks through the barriers into new life like a flower breaking through the ice.
 

Mole

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I only ask for definitions so I can know what you intend to mean.

The meaning of my post is your response. So I hang on your every response to see what I mean.

Not only God, but the author is dead. Instead the meaning is found in our interaction. The meaning can't do without me, and the meaning can't do without you. The meaning doesn't depend on any one of us, but depends on both of us.

It means letting go of our baggage - the baggage of the individual author.

What is helpful is to let go the baggage of the Individual Creator, to let go of us as the centre of the universe. The centre of the universe is everywhere and nowhere. God is dead. The author is dead. And the conversation lives forever.
 

the state i am in

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I presume you're talking about Romance, in which case, a new love extinguishes an old love.

and the winningest strategy is that everyone most always be ready to move on? and if the world was made of us (Fe-Ti) then really there'd be no sustaining/sustainable love at all?

i agree that time and attention control forgetting more than anything else. but what is appropriate grieving? what is appropriate loving? i read into what you're saying to detect a kind of eternal skepticism which cuts through false meaning but might defile some of our best aspirations.
 

Synarch

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and the winningest strategy is that everyone most always be ready to move on? and if the world was made of us (Fe-Ti) then really there'd be no sustaining/sustainable love at all?

To love is to lose. The beginning of love foretells the end of love. Everyone and everything you love will perish. The people you love now, you will look down on them in the final repose of death. Or, they will look down on you. Love is in the moment. Possession is in the moment. Once that time has passed all that is left is the dead leaves of memory. You can try to hold on, but you are holding nothing. Love while it is in your present power. And let go when your power is lost.

i agree that time and attention control forgetting more than anything else. but what is appropriate grieving? what is appropriate loving? i read into what you're saying to detect a kind of eternal skepticism which cuts through false meaning but might defile some of our best aspirations.

What is your aspiration?

I think we want to hold on because we want to adorn the way we feel about love right now. When we feel love we want to believe that it is eternal because we are beings who create. And creation always leaves a residue that feels real, concrete, and permanent. But, love does not work this way. It is a Promethean force that dies each moment and is reborn each moment.
 

Tiltyred

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No eternal love?
 

Synarch

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Eternity in a moment. But, we never live in Eternity.
 

the state i am in

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To love is to lose. The beginning of love foretells the end of love. Everyone and everything you love will perish. The people you love now, you will look down on them in the final repose of death. Or, they will look down on you. Love is in the moment. Possession is in the moment. Once that time has passed all that is left is the dead leaves of memory. You can try to hold on, but you are holding nothing. Love while it is in your present power. And let go when your power is lost.

What is your aspiration?

I think we want to hold on because we want to adorn the way we feel about love right now. When we feel love we want to believe that it is eternal because we are beings who create. And creation always leaves a residue that feels real, concrete, and permanent. But, love does not work this way. It is a Promethean force that dies each moment and is reborn each moment.

i believe you are mistaking your experience of love for what love is. i think that we (you and i--Fe-Ti) feel love at moments of death and change because we see the whole story in a new light that is too distant and too overarching to stay dialed into in an everyday life moment-by-moment kind of way. i don't know if there's that much consciousness to go around.

others (Fi) dwell on their feelings to come to terms with a truth for themselves that is necessary in order for them to navigate the world and make their decisions. and i also am under the assumption that that activity produces a kind of subjectively tinged love that provides a kind of affirmation and validation and truth that is if not permanent far beyond our transitory acting out/performance/decision of love. it is stored in a more enduring memory than our Fe love-grammar.

my aspiration is to recognize this kind of love, to know it, and allow it to transform my vision of the world beyond how i see love and its leaking colors.
 
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