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Creative minds 'mimic schizophrenia'

KDude

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Hmm... That was quite interesting. I have a sort of a block against the info, though... I see creativity as a sign of mental health, so how does that work out?

"And now that you are having the time of your life, well think twice that's my only advice" ;)
 
F

figsfiggyfigs

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The opposite is also possible. The child develops a rebellious personality to combat the oppression.

was going to say the same thing.


@ OP> great article. Fascinating read. : ) This is very interesting considering my circumstance.
 

ragashree

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The opposite is also possible. The child develops a rebellious personality to combat the oppression.

Existential psychology suggests that this may, in fact, be the key to much schizophrenia. The child does not feel able to rebel openly, and has an active imagination, and therefore engages in an outward compliance with the demands of others while living in an inner fantasy world. Schizophrenic tendencies become outwardly manifest when the personalised inner world, where their sense of self is located, comes to dominate their awareness so much that it takes precedence over their interactions with the outer world that is experienced as intersubjective "reality" by others. This is the split between inner and outer worlds, the "schizo-" of the "divided mind" that the term describes.
 

KDude

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I had the rebelliousness period, and the schizo period (which was aided by psychedelics, but whatever). I'm probably one of those peeps Nolla mentioned, who went to the border (I did get hospitalized for a little while however..so you might as well say I was crazy, not just borderline). What's funny though is that more I try to align myself with normalcy, the less inspired-flowing with ideas I become. I used to have a fucking orchestra in my head.. I used to snapshot visuals as a I walked about, and see how that could be choreographed in a project somewhere down the line. That doesn't happen as much anymore.. hell, I barely even dream anymore. I feel more sterile or mechanical at times..not crazy creative..not sure how to explain it. It just seems like the more creative mindstate was also a crazier one. And I'm afraid to steep too much into it (and btw, that's why I quoted Cee-lo above...it's exactly why he wrote that song from what I read).
 

Edgar

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I am very skeptical of any claim that equates mental illness with genius. There is a difference between being bright and being nuts. Of course it possible to be both insane and really smart, but as far as I can tell, there isn't much variation in percentage of crazy geniuses vs crazy joe schmoes with average IQ. I think that "crazy genius" makes for a colorful persona, so someone like Van Gogh is more prone to become a poster child for a talented artist than someone like Aivazovsky. And then the article itself mentioned how a lot of people equate creativity with mental illness, even though one does not necessarily imply the other.

I just grow weary of this popular culture cliches that every weirdo, wacko, or retard is some kind of a savant in disguise. A naive ENFP friend of mine went to teach art to schizophrenic kids believing their schizophrenia equated to artistic potential. He quickly realized that their drawings were just as shitty as any other ordinary kid drawings.

Reminds me of Stephen Hawking when he said that the reason he gets called "the smartest man in the world" a lot is because media is obssessed with the idea of a crippled genius. Not to say that he isn't a smart guy, its just that he probably wouldn't get nearly as much attention if he didn't have ALS.
 

KDude

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Well, some schizos DO creatively smear shit on the walls at least. Gotta give em that, man. :D
 

Edgar

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Well, some schizos DO creatively smear shit on the walls at least. Gotta give em that, man. :D

I guess a lot of monkeys have schizophrenia too.
 

KDude

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Anyways! I can't say I've met many bonafide schizophrenics to tell. I saw some during rehab, but they were zombiefied most of the time. I knew one dude back in highschool though who was a great guitar player, but schizophrenic. Problem with him is that he could never hold on to any of his gear.. usually sold his stuff for one reason or another...so it's not like he ever was productive about it.

Bi-Polars may be another story.
 

chooi

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Hmm... That was quite interesting. I have a sort of a block against the info, though... I see creativity as a sign of mental health, so how does that work out? Oh, I am not talking about the most creative-looking people, they are usually phonies just trying to think outside the box because it is fashionable. And I am not talking about the crazies, either. The truly creative people I've met were the sanest people I know. Maybe they once went on the border of insanity, but they came back as good as new.

I took "Culture and Personality" last semester, which is an anthro class. My prof drew on Bateson and systems theory to argue on a variety of topics. Shizophrenia was one of the topics that came up. His view is that schizos, after receiving confusing messages in double-bind situations, make sense of that information in ways that seem strange,crazy, or different to normal people. Sounds like creativity to me.

For example, a video we watched had a woman who talked about the "dark-haired people being in control, and running the world". My prof connected that to the stereotype about dumb blondes, which is pretty widespread. Another interviewee in the same video talked about "they are always watching me, when i step outside. they can see me everywhere". This was connected to Star Wars and other surveillance efforts by governments.

Of course, this approach brings up questions of nature vs. nurture. And I'm sure more "hard-science"-minded individuals might call it gobbledy-gook. Here's a website that criticizes the psychological approach to schizophrenia.
Successful Schizophrenia

For me, at least, schizophrenia is a negotiation between the psychological approach and the more cultural approach implied by my prof.
 

chooi

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I had the rebelliousness period, and the schizo period (which was aided by psychedelics, but whatever). I'm probably one of those peeps Nolla mentioned, who went to the border (I did get hospitalized for a little while however..so you might as well say I was crazy, not just borderline). What's funny though is that more I try to align myself with normalcy, the less inspired-flowing with ideas I become. I used to have a fucking orchestra in my head.. I used to snapshot visuals as a I walked about, and see how that could be choreographed in a project somewhere down the line. That doesn't happen as much anymore.. hell, I barely even dream anymore. I feel more sterile or mechanical at times..not crazy creative..not sure how to explain it. It just seems like the more creative mindstate was also a crazier one. And I'm afraid to steep too much into it (and btw, that's why I quoted Cee-lo above...it's exactly why he wrote that song from what I read).

I do notice some similarities between the two. Most people consider me extremely creative. However, most of the things that they pin on me as being "creative behavior" are used to screen for schizphrenia. Check the questions at the link. Psych Central - Schizophrenia Screening Quiz

Sounds close to the same beliefs that are found in Enneagram type 4, don't they? I've also felt like I could be schizotypal at times.
 

Betty Blue

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All the time -to question 8.

I enjoyed the article short as it was. I have always believed there to be a link between genuis and madness, extreme creativity and (some) mental health disorders. Begging the question of weather it is so unhealthy to have madness or mental health disorders. I think within the confines of society, like so many other things, the gifts are often blighted by the opinions and actions of others.
Of course, as always, there are exceptions.
 
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KDude

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I do notice some similarities between the two. Most people consider me extremely creative. However, most of the things that they pin on me as being "creative behavior" are used to screen for schizphrenia. Check the questions at the link. Psych Central - Schizophrenia Screening Quiz

Sounds close to the same beliefs that are found in Enneagram type 4, don't they? I've also felt like I could be schizotypal at times.

I'm not in that category. I scored a 2. The only times I actually flipped out were with substance abuse. Otherwise, I have some of the symptoms of bi-polar, if anything. Unfortunately, when I did screw up, the psychological "community (i.e. doctors) wanted to think I was schizo-affective, and made me take medications (one was Haldol, meant for schizophrenia...funnily though, it combats psychosis from drug abuse too), which fucked me up a bit. I should not have been taking it long. I was lucky to find a doctor who actually listened to my story and got me off.
 

Walking Tourist

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I am a storyteller and a creative designer with crochet and with my sewing machine... but, apparently, not schizophrenic. I scored a one. The only thing that I could relate to was that people don't see or hear the things that I do. That's just because, according to audiological testing, I've got super-keen hearing and I hear much more than most people do. I am told regularly that I have a "feverish imagination."
 

Mole

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I have always believed there to be a link between genuis and madness...

This is a belief of 19th Century Romanticism and has no basis in fact.

And when longitudinal studies were done to test this belief, it was found there is no link between creativity and madness, but there is a link between creativity and mental health.
 

KDude

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Who's judging what amounts to creativity though? :confused:

I mean, I can see where the completely mad aren't going to create anything coherent, but in other cases, the lines are blurred, and it's not always easy to judge. Criticism can be so subjective, especially, I imagine, if it's coming from a bunch of geezer psychologists.
 

Mole

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Who's judging what amounts to creativity though? :confused:

I mean, I can see where the completely mad aren't going to create anything coherent, but in other cases, the lines are blurred, and it's not always easy to judge. Criticism can be so subjective, especially, I imagine, if it's coming from a bunch of geezer psychologists.

A mental illness is a psychosis. And the mentally ill are psychotics. And the psychotic are out of touch with reality.

Whereas the creative are in touch with reality. They are so well in touch with reality that they are able to create something new.

So the gulf between the creative and the psychotic is huge and it is called reality.
 

KDude

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So you're saying sensors are in fact better artists than intuitives?


Finally! The Lord has spoken. Victor has settled it. :rolleyes: ;)
 

Thalassa

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:huh: People already know this. All of those great painters, writers, and musicians from centuries prior were often eccentric or had a substance abuse problem or went mad at some point. I guess they've just finally decided that it's "scientifically proven"?
 

Thalassa

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Thanks OP, that article was fascinating! Some say that romantic love also mimics mental illness (see Dr Frank Tallis, Love Sick: Love as a Mental Illness). Oh well, I don't mind if I'm mad.

I've read about that too...not that particular book, but another psychology book which stated that there's a very necessary stage of love which requires us to lose our own stable sense of identity ...and that if love weren't such a vital part of the human experience it would be considered a mental illness.

Just like if sleep weren't so familiar it would be scary (oh my god I'm going to lose consciousness!!!)

I agree with Victor to some degree, though. I think we live in a culture where an awful lot of human behavior is viewed as sickness or illness or deviance, and that the range of what is "normal" has become increasingly narrow.
 
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