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Astrology - Are you a believer?

Do you believe in astrology?

  • Yes

    Votes: 32 18.2%
  • No

    Votes: 137 77.8%
  • I have no idea what it is? So I'm not sure.

    Votes: 7 4.0%

  • Total voters
    176

Lex Talionis

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Sep 21, 2009
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382
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INTJ
There is a difference between accepting the possibility of behaviours altering in accord with moon cycles, and believing that the stars hold the key that will reveal one's destiny.

Clearly, it is not unlikely that moon cycles may affect the human psyche, since living organisms have evolved around the cycles of the moon, sun, and Earth. Some animals (nocturnal) are definitely more active during the night, and use the moon for guidance. Chronobiology is the field that studies the adaptation of organisms to solar and lunar cycles.
 

Lex Talionis

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There is always possibility :yes: They may exist in someone else's reality and, without proof I could not dismiss them but would rather look at why someone believes that they are there??

In this life I think the only absolutes must be qualified by what we as individuals know and understand now, based on our experience to date - the rest is open to speculation.

There are no "alternate" realities (mind you, alternate universes would not be alternate realities), unless you wish to entrench yourself into some philosophical bunker whose logic cannot be falsified and does not enlighten or further discussion; for example, solipsism. You and I can agree that the material world contains objects which we can both perceive to either equal or lesser extent, and if I were to claim the existence of an object or phenomena which you have never witnessed, or have not found a reasonable basis for finding validity in my statement, then you would be justified in remaining skeptical in the face of my claims.

There are individuals, of course, who claim to see and hear what the rest of us cannot, and we usually diagnose such individuals as suffering from schizophrenia or other hallucinatory disorders.
 

InsatiableCuriosity

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May 20, 2010
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698
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There are no "alternate" realities (mind you, alternate universes would not be alternate realities), unless you wish to entrench yourself into some philosophical bunker whose logic cannot be falsified and does not enlighten or further discussion; for example, solipsism. You and I can agree that the material world contains objects which we can both perceive to either equal or lesser extent, and if I were to claim the existence of an object or phenomena which you have never witnessed, or have not found a reasonable basis for finding validity in my statement, then you would be justified in remaining skeptical in the face of my claims.

There are individuals, of course, who claim to see and hear what the rest of us cannot, and we usually diagnose such individuals as suffering from schizophrenia or other hallucinatory disorders.

Touche - well said ;)
 

the soulless one

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Dec 27, 2008
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46
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esfp
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I keep track of planetary movements and know all about my natal chart and know the system well and can make predictions based on what I know, but honestly, I don't take much stock in it. I believe it about as much as I believe Enneagram and whatnot, but I see less reason to believe it than such personality constructs.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
Much of what is being studied about the origin and nature of the Universe in Quantum Mechanics borders on the mystical that we would have dismissed 50 years ago, and would seem to be on the very edges of some of the principles of Astrology. :)

Quantum Mechanics is counter-intuitive because the quantum is as small as anything can be. And we are unimaginably bigger than the quantum, and so we can't imagine the quantum, so the quantum is counter-intuitive.

On the other hand mysticism starts off in not knowing.

And unfortunately we confuse mysticism, or not knowing, with the counter-intuitive.

Fortunately we can understand the counter-intuitive, such as Quantum Mechanics or General Relativity, mathematically. But mysticism can't be understood mathematically.
 

ragashree

Reason vs Being
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Nov 3, 2008
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You missed the whole point.

Nope. This has all been covered already, but you obviously didn't read the whole discussion, so I suppose I need to go into more detail. See the posts I just linked back to for a start. Your whole logic is based on the fallacies of circular reasoning, argument from personal incredulity, and denying the antecedent.

The circular reasoning is where you make a truth claim validated only by your personal belief that astrology is nonsense. The belief is perfectly legitimate in itself, but it does nothing to establish absolute truth, unless you think you have a monopoly on this.

Do I need to go into the argument from personal incredulity,? All you're saying is that you can't believe it is true, therefore it must not be true. That might work for you, but why on earth should anyone else be convinced? Again, it doesn't constitute a meaningful truth claim.

The question of whether astrology is valid or useful in any sense is not, as you suppose, soley dependent on whether it is astronomically accurate in the sense that you have defined. In fact, I don't remember a single poster here who is open-minded or at least informed on the subject saying that it is. This is the fallacy of denying the antecedent, because denying one possible cause of a given phemomenon, when alternative explanations may exist, has no bearing on the existence of the phemomenon itself. This is a formal fallacy because it's based on true premises but does not give sound reasons for its conclusion to be accepted.

Informally, you're presumably supposing that people who accept the possibility are ignorant of astronomy and they must therefore be relying on an explanation which can easily be disproved by science, which is a variant of the strawman fallacy; but I give the formal fallacy more weight because the strawman side of it arises from a simple misunderstanding about how others percieve the issue.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
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Oct 4, 2007
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ragashree... your analysis was partially on (physical pleasure IS awesome!) and partially quite off (I'm not particularly critical of those I love... and I'm queen of the disorganized :shock:)

of course I could have made it easier on you by pointing out that I'm a Leo with a moon in Aries and 4 planets (two sets in conjunction) in Sagitarius :tongue:
 

ragashree

Reason vs Being
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ragashree... your analysis was partially on (physical pleasure IS awesome!) and partially quite off (I'm not particularly critical of those I love... and I'm queen of the disorganized :shock:)

of course I could have made it easier on you by pointing out that I'm a Leo with a moon in Aries and 4 planets (two sets in conjunction) in Sagitarius :tongue:

Lol, well, Saggitarius and Aries are both supposed to be highly chaotic and impulsive, so this much influence would be expected to make a difference, as well as venus in first house position being particularly associated with an easy going, self-indulgent quality in relationships. That part of the chart is really meant to be more about personal interaction style than anything deeper. Some of the astrological systems actually give more weight to the position of the moon (because it's associated with emotions) than even the sun, and multiple planets in the same sign (particularly in conjunction with each other, which is supposed to increase the harmonic energy) are going to give that sign a lot of overall influence in the chart.

Really, we can't even form a good basis for a critique of the system by looking at aspects in isolation due to their potential to be influenced by other aspects. This makes criticism by those who haven't really bothered trying to understand it in detail and are taking issue with specific single aspects rather weak. Maybe it doesn't work, but we still need to be able to make an appropriately nuanced qualitative assessment of how all the different variables integrate with each other.

I'll try some more specific Virgo rising sign traits anyway, just to see how many apply. Most of them should be present to some significant degree despite the strong influence of the other signs; though obviously we need to watch out for confirmation bias and the blah, blah effect here in trying to determine whether you have them to a notable degree:

Are you a "helper" or "carer" who likes to do a lot of things for others and is maybe particularly attracted to those who need that help? With regard to the ascendant position and the supposed virgo desire to be of practical service to people, do you tend to employ whatever organisational skills you have in order to help or support others, rather than yourself? Do you use your reason and ability to detach emotionally and focus on practical necessities, enabling you to remain fairly easygoing and flexible in most situations? Do you have a very keen awareness of your own body (more so than most people) and tend to worry a lot about minor ailments, perhaps blowing them out of proportion? Is health, nutrition and exercise generally a big deal for you, other people's as well as your own? Are you a worrier in general, particularly when it comes to thinking about what might go wrong in your social interactions and relationships? In this context in particular, do you notice a lot of details that others are not likely to pick up on? Oh, and where is the position of Mercury? This is also supposed to affect Virgo strongly due to being the ruling planet.
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
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Nov 8, 2008
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YMCA
I don't really believe in it, but I'm about as Libran as you can be IRL.
 
Joined
May 23, 2010
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38
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INFP
Enneagram
9w1
I don't believe the planets thing or the daily horoscope, but I've had my natal chart done and it was pretty accurate.
I consistently identify with other fire signs. I have always been attractive to and attracted to Libras on the job for example. So what's up with that?
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
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Lol, well, Saggitarius and Aries are both supposed to be highly chaotic and impulsive, so this much influence would be expected to make a difference, as well as venus in first house position being particularly associated with an easy going, self-indulgent quality in relationships. That part of the chart is really meant to be more about personal interaction style than anything deeper. Some of the astrological systems actually give more weight to the position of the moon (because it's associated with emotions) than even the sun, and multiple planets in the same sign (particularly in conjunction with each other, which is supposed to increase the harmonic energy) are going to give that sign a lot of overall influence in the chart.

Really, we can't even form a good basis for a critique of the system by looking at aspects in isolation due to their potential to be influenced by other aspects. This makes criticism by those who haven't really bothered trying to understand it in detail and are taking issue with specific single aspects rather weak. Maybe it doesn't work, but we still need to be able to make an appropriately nuanced qualitative assessment of how all the different variables integrate with each other.

I'll try some more specific Virgo rising sign traits anyway, just to see how many apply. Most of them should be present to some significant degree despite the strong influence of the other signs; though obviously we need to watch out for confirmation bias and the blah, blah effect here in trying to determine whether you have them to a notable degree:

Are you a "helper" or "carer" who likes to do a lot of things for others and is maybe particularly attracted to those who need that help? With regard to the ascendant position and the supposed virgo desire to be of practical service to people, do you tend to employ whatever organisational skills you have in order to help or support others, rather than yourself? Do you use your reason and ability to detach emotionally and focus on practical necessities, enabling you to remain fairly easygoing and flexible in most situations? Do you have a very keen awareness of your own body (more so than most people) and tend to worry a lot about minor ailments, perhaps blowing them out of proportion? Is health, nutrition and exercise generally a big deal for you, other people's as well as your own? Are you a worrier in general, particularly when it comes to thinking about what might go wrong in your social interactions and relationships? In this context in particular, do you notice a lot of details that others are not likely to pick up on? Oh, and where is the position of Mercury? This is also supposed to affect Virgo strongly due to being the ruling planet.

I'm pretty much your stereotypical fire sign ruled person in a way :laugh:

I don't value organization, am definitley not a hypochondriac and would be perfectly happy consuming a steady diet of bacon cheeseburgers :ninja: I do keep in good shape though, but I do that for reasons of enjoying exercize and being an egomaniac. I don't really worry about things most of the time and am not detail oriented :cry:

Mercury in Leo in the 11th house though :)

Funny though... my Virgo is a delightfully anal retentive ISTJ :rofl1:
 

ragashree

Reason vs Being
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I'm pretty much your stereotypical fire sign ruled person in a way :laugh:

I don't value organization, am definitley not a hypochondriac and would be perfectly happy consuming a steady diet of bacon cheeseburgers :ninja: I do keep in good shape though, but I do that for reasons of enjoying exercize and being an egomaniac. I don't really worry about things most of the time and am not detail oriented :cry:

Mercury in Leo in the 11th house though :)

Funny though... my Virgo is a delightfully anal retentive ISTJ :rofl1:

So... for one specific aspect in isolation astrology is performing modestly. However, when we factor in the fact that the influences in your chart are almost entirely fire (what sun sign were you again? I may have missed that!), and that the ruler of the ascendant is also in a fire sign, leo, which should indicate that the Virgo communication style will be heavily Leo moderated and therefore become broader, generous, and expansive... If it had been in Virgo, the sign it rules, astrology would predict an intensification of the Virgo energy and it would come across quite strongly: Leo suggests the same energy would tend to be rechannelled into a broader outlook, though it would still be there to some extent. Specifically, I would say that critical and reasoning tendencies may still be there, but they would be expressed in a Leo manner, time to cut and paste because I'm lazy:

When Mercury in Leo people speak, they do it with authority. Some of them come across as know-it-alls, but the more mature ones speak with style. They want others to know about their presence of mind and their know-how.

Mercury in Leo men and women are adept at seeing the big picture, sometimes at the cost of ignoring the details. They are generally skilled at the art of persuasion. While others may try to win people over with logic, guilt, or wit, Mercury in Leo does it with warmth and good will. They are excellent at promoting ideas and getting their message across.

These people can be very attached to their opinions, taking pride in their beliefs, which are often rather idealistic. They are capable people on an intellectual level, and have an especial desire for self-expression.

Well, scarcely conclusive, but interesting. A minor influence will come out to a smaller degree than a larger one, and the influence of Virgo in your chart as a whole is actually not that strong. The fire influence is extremely dominant and ought to drive your personality and motivations, Virgo only coming out to quite a limited degree.
 

miss fortune

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I'm a Leo... Mercury in Leo as well... and like I said, 4 planets (2 conjunctions) in Sagitarius and the moon in Aries... in other words, those who beleive in astrology should look at my chart and RUN! :devil:

oh... would that be refering to my saying smart people things in valley girl lingo and such? :ninja:
 

miss fortune

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hey, my venus is in virgo, you can't speak like that to me! :tongue:
 

tinkerbell

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Aug 31, 2008
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I'm a Leo... Mercury in Leo as well... and like I said, 4 planets (2 conjunctions) in Sagitarius and the moon in Aries... in other words, those who beleive in astrology should look at my chart and RUN! :devil:

oh... would that be refering to my saying smart people things in valley girl lingo and such? :ninja:

LOL Fire signs are pretty much hot air! LOL

So Jag tell us about your chart, do you really have a lot of Scorp ;) Not that there is anything wrong with Scorps, some of the bestest people have planets in Scorp
 
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