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Machismo, Homophobia, Ignorance

Forever_Jung

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Whoa, I thought I recognized this thread title. I am all in favour of a bully beat down en masse.
 

Randomnity

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ugh, small towns.... :sick:

shitty that even Canada can be like that, at least in small towns...
 

Red Herring

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I had a conversation about this only yesterday. On paper this country is pretty progressive. It is governed by a small unattractive woman with a PhD in quantum chemistry who "lived in sin" with her second husband for many years (she´s a conservative); second in command is a gay man who just married his boyfriend. When he had his public coming out (shortly afterboth the governor of Hamburg and the candidate for governor of Berlin were threatened to "expose" and both had publicly embraced their orientation) the general reaction of the public was a major yawn...who gives a damn? I think he had planned it to be a publicity stunt - look at me! - but seriously nobody found it worth mentioning. Only later when he became foreign minister and vice chancelor did people joke about him. I have never seen any negative coverage on gays and lesbians in the media, there is a general consensus. A handful of conservatives complained about gay marriage (well, actually it´s a "registered partnership"), but it was never a big issue.

On the other hand, gay and lesbian teenagers are often still mobbed by their class mates. Especially young male muslim immigrants are often still set on a very traditional macho concept of gender roles. "Faggot" is often used as an insult, though not necessarily towards somebody gay or metro or effeminate but towards anybody who happens to be the target of ridicule. It is used much in a similar way to the expression "Du Spasti!" ("you spastic!", a completely ridiculous wannabe insult that has absolutely nothing to do with people actually suffering from spastic attacks (which isn´t exactly somethinfg to ridicula either)). There are suspiciously few open gays in pro sports. Much more among artists, entertainers and, as I said, even politicians. Sports, male sports, is the last bastion of macho heterosexuality and I can´t wait for the day when one professional soccer player after the other comes out of the closet. Oh the tears that will be shed at the pub around the corner where the real guys meet!

So yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with insecurity and conforming to group behavior.

As for Forever Young: get the hell out of that cave men ridden snowy hell hole of yours and move into civilization!

As for Ming: Good luck with getting your environment used to the idea. When a friend of minde married, two of her friends from Spain (two guys) came to the wedding. They came across as so gay that I immediately assumed they were a couple. When I could conclude from the conversation that they were not, I thought, okay, so they are two friends who just happen to be both gay. It turned out later on that one of them (funnily enough the even gayer one of them) had never officially come out and even said "my girlfriend" when he talked about his boyfriend back at home. He only came out a year or later and now has very interesting pictures of himself in speedos at the beach in his facebook profile. Apparently he was afraid of the repercussions until it turned out that his environment was very supportive (and probably knew all along anyway, seriousl!)

It may sound like a cliché, but really, this is the 21st century and those still living in the 19th century shouldn´t stop the rest from living their lives as they damn well please (as long as nobody else get´s hurt, which obviously isn´t the case here). Also, I have several friends living in Barcelona which is not only very LGBT friendly but a city that worships metrosexuality and a few of these hetero friends would probably get beaten up in Forever Youngs village from hell (or Saudi Arabia or many African countries for that matter, also a lot of homophobia in the Carribean. It´s sometimes used as the modern day version of "the jews poisoned the drinking water")
 

FDG

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That's why you should always carry a gun. Thieves are robbers aren't really that bad - they're just earning a living. These people though deserve a bit of a lesson.
 

sleepy

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Now I realize it may be unfair to ask this to people who live in more progressive surroundings, but do you encounter a lot of macho bullshit in your life?
Yes, it's happened. These guys are protecting their territory. You make them insecure. It's sad that you get beaten up. But that is how it is. As you are part of their group, but don't conform, you disrupt.

In essence it's probably a few in that group that feel they have the right to attack you based on their perception of reality(as in you hurt them). The rest in the group are too mentally weak to stand up against the leaders(probably a few that don't share the feelings) The rest indifferent, as they are not on the line. So you really don't stand a chance if you try to set things right. These guys are not interested in learning, expanding their horizon. You are like a knife that twists in the wound. They want things to be as it has always been.

It's classic group mentality with the ones on top cleansing the territory. It's going on everywhere. Homophobia etc are excuses. They want you gone as you make them uncomfortable and disrupt their harmony. Or just someone to abuse. They probably don't quite know either. But they do know that they don't like you.
 

kyuuei

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^ I do think it's much different as an adult for me though. If I had not been bullied so much in high school, I'd probably be a total push-over as an adult. Being bullied in high school hardened me up and made me realize that it can't get any worse than what happened to me in the past. Now, I really do give off that "You can't push me around, dude. Find another approach" vibe.. I didn't realize that I do, but I really do!!
 

DiscoBiscuit

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I was bullied pretty bad in middle school, which hardened me up. :yes:

It's the hard knock life... :shrug:

[YOUTUBE="zxtn6-XQupM"]Hard Knock Life[/YOUTUBE]
 

Thalassa

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Yeah men were going to college long before women...but yeah...I think a lot of what you're witnessing must be from a specific culture, since you won't verify where you're from - but it sounds like a less educated, working class mentality which I've witnessed more amongst redneck types in the South, or some Latino sub-groups in Las Vegas or California. There are plenty of other cultures or sub-groups where this kind of mentality reigns, and I'd take a wild stab in the dark that the dudes who beat you up were most likely STPs who get thrills out of public beatings or misguided SJ males who have known absolutely nothing but that ignorant sub-culture for their entire lives.

I dunno, I've always told people to fuck off unless I felt like I was actually in danger. There was a redneck football player named Bobby Varney (yes I swear that was his name...who but a redneck would name their child such a thing) who tried to pick on me in one of my math classes, he was inches away from being a drooling moron, and I just went off on him one day in class, the expression on his face was priceless because he wasn't expecting me to retaliate. Of course the teacher took my side, and if it had gone any further I could have reported him to administration. I also used to stick up for others who would get picked on, verbally at least.

Unfortunately being on the street is much more dangerous than getting picked on by some doofus in high school, so I'd start carrying mace or some other weapon if I were you.
 

Randomnity

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I think a lot of what you're witnessing must be from a specific culture, since you won't verify where you're from - but it sounds like a less educated, working class mentality which I've witnessed more amongst redneck types in the South, or some Latino sub-groups in Las Vegas or California.

Assuming his location entry is correct, he's from the maritimes (eastern Canadian provinces).

There's definitely a specific culture there. I don't know much about it (never been there) but from what I hear it's typically less-educated and under-employed, certainly "rough around the edges". Very irish/scottish, especially in some parts.
 

Thalassa

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Assuming his location entry is correct, he's from the maritimes (eastern Canadian provinces).

There's definitely a specific culture there. I don't know much about it (never been there) but from what I hear it's typically less-educated and under-employed, certainly "rough around the edges". Very irish/scottish, especially in some parts.

I see. I did not realize the maritimes was a real place, I just associate it with sea or naval life.

What you describe makes sense, exactly what you've described here is what the white, working class Southern U.S. culture is based in. I'm Scots-Irish on one side myself.
 

Forever_Jung

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I see. I did not realize the maritimes was a real place, I just associate it with sea or naval life.

What you describe makes sense, exactly what you've described here is what the white, working class Southern U.S. culture is based in. I'm Scots-Irish on one side myself.

Yes, Randomnity described us pretty well. A lot of people in the Maritimes are very friendly and hardworking, but I stand out as pretty freakish to some of the members of my community. What's worse, I am Acadien, and some people don't look too kindly upon us "Frogs". In small, backwards communities, fitting in is important. Even among my family, I am an oddity of sorts. My father is a tradesman with a sixth grade education and I feel bad because he simply doesn't understand why I'm at university and not working with him right now. He thinks he did something wrong and I must be mad at him. Since I started this thread, I have transferred to a small liberal arts University in the capital, which is much better.

Anyway, I think the white working class South comparison is pretty fair, except there are more fishermen here. :wink:
 

Totenkindly

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Love ya, d00d... but this made me laugh:

I think that's why females like us. It's 'cause we're understanding, smart, and most of us are absolute stunners in bed and looks and sex. Who wants a beer gut, when you can get an almighty hunk

but... uh... aren't you gay?
So you'd never BE in bed with me?
(aside from statuatory charges, of course)

lol.
 

Sunny Ghost

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i must live in a very interesting town... i'm in a small, rural southern town where there are lots of rednecks and good ole southern boys. however, it's also a college town and there's quite an eclectic community that exists here on top of those other aspects. i've even met several country gay boys.

this must be some rare spectacle of crossroads where gays, nerds, professors and intellectual students, metrosexuals, hipsters, hippies, banjo player folk musicians, rednecks and hillbilly's can all live in unison and peace. ...for the most part. there was one incident during the summer, where a gay man wound up beat up and in a coma. however, story goes, it was actually the gay man that was out of line that particular night and not the men that put him there. apparently he kept harassing some straight (maybe homophobic) country boys. however, i wasn't there and only know the story by ear.

other than this one event though, this community seems to have found some level of peace amongst the differences in those respects.
 

Valiant

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First of all, sorry to hear about this man, are you pressing charges against the assholes?

This could be interesting to anyone who thinks they may have me pigeon holed on the topic of homosexuality. I dont support or encourage the spread of homosexuality, its not something which I regard as understandable or healthy either. I've major doubts about the bio-psychological explanations for its origins, whether that's the body chemistry of mothers (which I think is actually a male chauvinist explanation, think about it) or anything else.

On the other hand I do not hold at all with the use of words associated with homosexuality being used in a menacing or prejorative sense, I'm also not alright with the demonisation of effeminate, effette or similar traits, behaviour or appearences which may be associated in some minds with homosexuality.

Personally I dont like the whole metrosexual thing, I dont like some of the attention grabbing garb and actions of some of the homosexual fraternity either but so what, I dont like cricket either, it shouldnt earn anyone attention, abuse or a roughing up.

I've been told by others that I can be very macho or ultra manned, I dont think so personally, not even when I raise my voice, challenge behaviour I dont like (I really dont like bullies) or have to behave aggressively, I dont think of those behaviours as macho or exclusively male.

It doesnt happen in Northern Ireland anymore that going to university draws aggrivation from others, maybe it did at a time but I doubt it, the class divisions and other divisions are more important than "college" vs. other, I think perhaps it could be to do with the privilege that is associated with "college" in the US, jealous, envy and bitterness. Then again I do know that someone in Newcastle who's a teacher and married to the sister of one of my friends was mistook for a student and assaulted by a group of guys with a bat, this was to do with his perception as a "smart ass student" but I dont know how common that is.


+1.
.
The whole sissy-boy thing makes me want to vomit, though. Men should be men. Period.
If some aren't, maybe they should have therapy, but not violence.
Violence is sometimes a solution, but it really isn't if you're going to reform someone who is mentally ill.

Homosexuality is not a good thing that should be embraced by society, just dealt with on a personal basis, and perhaps with professional help.
Just like people who want to do other really disgusting and horrible things has to keep it in their pants because it's against the law, as it still should be.

I might sound like a conservative Christian, here, and in fact this is one of the few points where I agree with them.
Why? Because they're somewhat right, and people just don't dare to step on anyones' toes anymore. What's next? Legalizing pedophilia? Necrophilia? Zoophilia?

This is just my opinion, and I know some people won't like it one bit, but I have a right to it and a right to express it in civil discussion.
If this gets me an infraction, it was so worth it.
 

sleepy

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+1.
.
The whole sissy-boy thing makes me want to vomit, though. Men should be men. Period.
If some aren't, maybe they should have therapy, but not violence.
Violence is sometimes a solution, but it really isn't if you're going to reform someone who is mentally ill.

Homosexuality is not a good thing that should be embraced by society, just dealt with on a personal basis, and perhaps with professional help.
Just like people who want to do other really disgusting and horrible things has to keep it in their pants because it's against the law, as it still should be.

I might sound like a conservative Christian, here, and in fact this is one of the few points where I agree with them.
Why? Because they're somewhat right, and people just don't dare to step on anyones' toes anymore. What's next? Legalizing pedophilia? Necrophilia? Zoophilia?

This is just my opinion, and I know some people won't like it one bit, but I have a right to it and a right to express it in civil discussion.
If this gets me an infraction, it was so worth it.
Sure you have a right. But your arguments/opinion....

I agree with conservative Christians...disgusting and horrible...pedophilia, necrophilia...sissy boy, vomit, violence..mentally ill.

Obvious trolling. Lucky for you it's generally okay to trash homosexuals. And the homosexual gets beaten up. But who knows, you may not be so lucky either. Infraction? You are not worried of being banned? Interesting. Why don't you write the same post and exchange homosexuals with women? You are already halfway there with your opening statement.
 

Randomnity

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This is a thread about how bullies suck, especially small minded, bigoted, stereotyping ones. I don't think the op is even gay (?), he just happened to have a purse-appearing object - a perfectly normal, non-effeminate (to reasonable people) laptop bag.

Maybe having sex with bigots ("assholephilia?") will be criminalized, that'd be kickass. Maybe, people who do really disgusting and horrible things like promoting hatred towards minorities should be sent to therapy (not paid for by the state, of course).
 

Forever_Jung

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This is a thread about how bullies suck, especially small minded, bigoted, stereotyping ones. I don't think the op is even gay (?), he just happened to have a purse-appearing object - a perfectly normal, non-effeminate (to reasonable people) laptop bag.

Maybe having sex with bigots ("assholephilia?") will be criminalized, that'd be kickass. Maybe, people who do really disgusting and horrible things like promoting hatred towards minorities should be sent to therapy (not paid for by the state, of course).

Yes...it seems like someone just bringing up homosexuality, even if it's not the point of the thread, causes people to go on anti-gay rants. I am not sure where this fear and aggression comes from (repressed femininity perhaps?), but it is not the mark of a balanced, reasonable person. Gayness wasn't the issue anyway, it was more about bigots. This makes me think a of a funny article on The Onion:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/let-us-identify-the-faggots-and-then-inform-them-o,11514/
 

Totenkindly

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This is just my opinion, and I know some people won't like it one bit, but I have a right to it and a right to express it in civil discussion. If this gets me an infraction, it was so worth it.

From a non-mod perspective (since that is all I'm going to comment on right now), I'm less disturbed by your views and more disturbed by the complete lack of any rational support you have offered for why you might believe and behave as you do.

It definitely changes how I look at you and how I view your conclusions.
 
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