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J/P difference, long-range/short-range thinking?

LeafAndSky

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Would the J/P difference have any correlation with a tendency toward short-range or long-range thinking? (If this has been discussed before, I couldn't find it in a search.)
 

simulatedworld

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Kind of, but there's probably a better way to phrase it. It's more that Js favor sequential structure and order in the external world, which often translates into diligent planning and difficulty adapting to external changes quickly without time to reassess and make new plans.

Ps favor holistic, internalized structure and consistency, but will allow comparatively more flexibility in the way they deal with the outer world. This often translates into less propensity for planning, instead relying on ability to adapt to outward changes as they occur.

So, in a way you have a point, because Ps are more likely to just figure things out as they come up, and Js are more likely to have already planned for them, but the J's plans are not always long-range. They might be intended for a duration as short as a few hours--"How am I going to plan my day today?"

I would suggest that short range vs. long range thinking is more related to S vs. N.
 

JustHer

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Kind of, but there's probably a better way to phrase it. It's more that Js favor sequential structure and order in the external world, which often translates into diligent planning and difficulty adapting to external changes quickly without time to reassess and make new plans.

Ps favor holistic, internalized structure and consistency, but will allow comparatively more flexibility in the way they deal with the outer world. This often translates into less propensity for planning, instead relying on ability to adapt to outward changes as they occur.

So, in a way you have a point, because Ps are more likely to just figure things out as they come up, and Js are more likely to have already planned for them, but the J's plans are not always long-range. They might be intended for a duration as short as a few hours--"How am I going to plan my day today?"

I would suggest that short range vs. long range thinking is more related to S vs. N.

HAH MBTI FAIL!!!
 

simulatedworld

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Thanks, Sim. I'm not a J. :hi:

The descriptions are relative. When I say "Js are not as good at adapting without time to reassess and plan", I just mean that relative to most Ps. It doesn't mean no Js have ever learned to do that.

Plus, since you're an old fart, you probably have better command of the tertiary, which, for you is extroverted perception...which probably translates into more quick adaptability.


HAH MBTI FAIL!!!

Oh, I must have forgotten to mention the common ENTJ delusion that they're the best at everything and have no weak points.
 
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Ginkgo

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coexist2.jpg


Wrong time? Damn...
 

LeafAndSky

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Thank you, Sim. I was actually wondering about things like: seeing benefits in living sustainably vs. going for convenience. Or issues such as nuclear waste storage. Could being more J-ish influence or enhance a tendency to think in short-term ways, as in, "How am I going to plan my day today? (That's way more important to me than sustainability.)" Or could being more P-ish result in "It'll all work out"?
 

simulatedworld

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Thank you, Sim. I was actually wondering about things like: seeing benefits in living sustainably vs. going for convenience. Or issues such as nuclear waste storage. Could being more J-ish influence or enhance a tendency to think in short-term ways, as in, "How am I going to plan my day today? (That's way more important to me than sustainability.)" Or could being more P-ish result in "It'll all work out"?

Well, as a very general observation, Js tend to focus more than Ps on setting up sustainable sources of reliable income because knowing that these are in place makes planning for the future easier.

Being a J does not enhance a tendency to think in the short term; if anything, it would be the opposite. NJs, especially, tend to be the most proficient long-term planners. NPs may think a lot about grand visions for glorious futures but are typically not as good at actually setting up and implementing step by step processes to make them into reality.

Ps are surely more likely to avoid deliberate plans for producing long-term sustainability based on the idea that, "Well, everything will work out because I'll just figure out what to do when the time comes."

Obviously none of this applies in 100% of cases, but those are the general tendencies.
 

Jaguar

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The descriptions are relative. When I say "Js are not as good at adapting without time to reassess and plan", I just mean that relative to most Ps. It doesn't mean no Js have ever learned to do that.

Plus, since you're an old fart, you probably have better command of the tertiary, which, for you is extroverted perception...which probably translates into more quick adaptability.

You're the one who wrote the nutty post months ago saying you don't use Se.
You can't see, smell, hear or fart. :newwink:
 

durentu

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J/P preference is the most contested and you get slightly different answers depending on which authority you ask.

in general, J/P is about tension. J feel tension to decide now. P feel tension to decide later. The effect is that while the J is more opportunistic, the P had a greater potential payoff by waiting for more info.
 

simulatedworld

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You're the one who wrote the nutty post months ago saying you don't use Se.
You can't see, smell, hear or fart. :newwink:

Se isn't an action. Seeing, smelling hearing and farting do not constitute "using Se."
 

Jaguar

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J/P preference is the most contested and you get slightly different answers depending on which authority you ask.

in general, J/P is about tension. J feel tension to decide now. P feel tension to decide later. The effect is that while the J is more opportunistic, the P had a greater potential payoff by waiting for more info.


My brother took 3 months to choose a car. He still bought a car he hated.
I walked in, test drove a car, and bought mine the same day. No regrets.

"Waiting for more information," frequently means the person is just postponing a bad decision.
It doesn't matter how long they wait - it still sucks.
 

durentu

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My brother took 3 months to choose a car. He still bought a car he hated.
I walked in, test drove a car, and bought mine the same day. No regrets.

"Waiting for more information," frequently means the person is just postponing a bad decision.
It doesn't matter how long they wait - it still sucks.

nah, that's just your brother :D
 
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Ginkgo

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Everything that's happening here exemplifies a certain communication dysfuct that tends to happen between individuals of Fi+Te judging preference and Fe+Ti judging preference.

Sim, I have to be honest. I can't wrap my head around the notion that the functions are just "definitions". Or at least, that's how you prescribe them in my opinion. They were derived from observed behaviors, and observed cognitive orientations. As observed orientations, they should be readily seen to the "typologist"; and this is why we have Typology central. However, one action may not necessarily entail a cognitive preference.

To be perfectly clear, usually when someone says "using" this function or "using" that function, they are inferring that function is in the first 4 preferred functions of the archetype of the individual. However, we all use all of our functions to one degree or another. MBTI simply highlights one's preferences.
 
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Ginkgo

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A person who spends his time obsessing over typology paradigms but denies they ever happen is like an entomologist who denies the fact that insects are crawling around in his front yard.
 

Jaguar

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Se isn't an action. Seeing, smelling hearing and farting do not constitute "using Se."


Sim, a well-known Jungian psychologist burst out laughing when I told him you said, "I don't use Se."
He replied, "Oh? How does he drive a car?"
I was discussing MBTI and the SL-TDI with him, on the phone.

I'm not sure what your excuse is for not even knowing the basic meaning of the functions,
but you certainly shouldn't be judging Aphrodite's knowledge of the functions when you don't even know them yourself.
 

simulatedworld

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My brother took 3 months to choose a car. He still bought a car he hated.
I walked in, test drove a car, and bought mine the same day. No regrets.

"Waiting for more information," frequently means the person is just postponing a bad decision.
It doesn't matter how long they wait - it still sucks.

Translation: "ENTJs are better than everyone, moron."


Everything that's happening here exemplifies a certain communication dysfuct that tends to happen between individuals of Fi+Te judging preference and Fe+Ti judging preference.

Sim, I have to be honest. I can't wrap my head around the notion that the functions are just "definitions". Or at least, that's how you prescribe them in my opinion. They were derived from observed behaviors, and observed cognitive orientations. As observed orientations, they should be readily seen to the "typologist"; and this is why we have Typology central. However, one action may not necessarily entail a cognitive preference.

To be perfectly clear, usually when someone says "using" this function or "using" that function, they are inferring that function is in the first 4 preferred functions of the archetype of the individual. However, we all use all of our functions to one degree or another. MBTI simply highlights one's preferences.

No, they're not just definitions. They're descriptions of the bases from which people construct their worldviews.

Yes we all use every function on occasion; some are just used much less frequently than people think.


Sim, a well-known Jungian psychologist burst out laughing when I told him you said, "I don't use Se."
He replied, "Oh? How does he drive a car?"
I was discussing MBTI and the SL-TDI with him, on the phone.

I'm not sure what your excuse is for not even knowing the basic meaning of the functions,
but you certainly shouldn't be judging Aphrodite's knowledge of the functions when you don't even know them yourself.

That's interesting. Does he have any books out or anything I can read?

I don't believe that I never use Se, just that it's unnatural and not something I can do easily. It took me a really long time to become a competent driver because, in order to pay attention to Se, I have to temporarily ignore Ne, which is pretty hard.
 
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Ginkgo

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When your opponent resorts to ad hominem attacks, pity them; for you are the victor.
 
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