J/P difference, long-range/short-range thinking?

[Jaguar]

get it right Jaguar.

Get an eye exam.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Yeah, I understand that about her. It's clear that she was scarred by her past. I agree.




I think this paragraph shows a ridiculous prejudice against Fi, as though you think Fe is "healthier." NO - all INTJs have tert Fi, and apparently you don't recognize it in healthier INTJs.

If you see prejudice it is coming from somewhere within yourself. I am not prejudiced against any functions, or their expression in people.

I am simply stating that any function, especially when it orients with the dominant into intra or extraversion (depending on the dom's orientation) to an extreme degree, and over a long period of time, can result in an unhealthy manifestation.

I realize Fe can be unhealthy as well.

 

[Thalassa]

If you see prejudice it is coming from somewhere within yourself. I am not prejudiced against any functions, or their expression in people.

No, it's not coming from somewhere in myself. To say that healthy INTJs use Fe and unhealthy ones use Fi is ridiculous in its bias.

I am simply stating that any function, especially when it orients with the dominant into intra or extraversion (depending on the dom's orientation) to an extreme degree, and over a long period of time, can result in an unhealthy manifestation.

I realize Fe can be unhealthy as well.

I just don't know how you can mistake the distance and lack of concern for social morals in INTJs as being Fe.

Likewise, I don't know how you can mistake the need to reach out and connect in ENTPs as Fi.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

No, it's not coming from somewhere in myself. To say that healthy INTJs use Fe and unhealthy ones use Fi is ridiculous in its bias.

I am not biased. You are reading something into my post that isn't there, or wasn't intended.

I was very clear in my description on the Ayn Rand post.

Any archetype that uses a function, or attitude of a particular function, (which can occur in a dysfunctional environment, or for various other reasons) in a manner that is not condusive to emotional health, well-being, or growth of that individual; or is projected to others in a negative manner, is utilizing an unhealthy aspect of that function within that archetype, and this will likely manifest in an unhealthy representation of that archetype.

Besides, I was, and am, more questionning than anything. I think if you can read my post objectively, you could see that. I don't have time to restate what I've already stated clearly and succintly.

I just don't know how you can mistake the distance and lack of concern for social morals in INTJs as being Fe.

Likewise, I don't know how you can mistake the need to reach out and connect in ENTPs as Fi.

Well, this is your personal opinion, just as I have my personal opinion. What wrong with that?

ENTPs' need to "reach out and connect" is more a process of them searching hypervigilantly for information to fuel their Ne. I don't feel them having Fe as their normal teriary function. If you do, great.

 

[Venom]

this thread needs to be nuked.

1. Fi is a function about the unconscionable. That is all. It can be perceived as a selfish function because sometimes there are things that might "help people", but are called out to be unconscionable (like selling organs etc).

2. Fe is a function about stating your loyalties or dis-loyalties. That is all. You can be a real bitch by exercising that Fe to demonstrate that you will not be part of someone's group/they will not be a part of your group. Its not inherently a function about "taking care of people".

3. regardless of who's theory, the reality that MBTI practitioners discovered is that most people barely can handle their first two functions, as our own practitioner on the forum has talked about. MBTI has a set 1st and 2nd function. The more popular theory then has 1st and 3rd being the same orientation, but thats all it is, the more popular. However, the reverse theory really has nothing more than conjecture backing it up either.

4. Ayn rand was psychotic. Her ideas were unoriginal philosophically, she ignored earlier philosophers who basically would make her look like child's play. Her novels are overly long and aggrandizing (the 30 page speech at the end ). However, to say this was "Fi" gone wrong vs another function is a little ridiculous. She was simply fucked in the head. Her Ni was off in perception of reality. Her Te was off in measuring the cause and effect of a "me society". It was ALL off!!! (all 8 functions!)

5. finally, I leave this forum for a week, and what do i come back to find?

OH ITS SIM AND JAG IN A CIRCLE JERK TOGETHER! oh great! would you guys grow up and stop arguing about the same shit week after week after week?

 

[simulatedworld]

#1 and #2 are good.

No comment on the rest.

Who is the official MBTI practitioner on this forum?

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

#1 and #2 are good.

No comment on the rest.

Who is the official MBTI practitioner on this forum?

edcoaching

 

[Jaguar]

finally, I leave this forum for a week, and what do i come back to find?

OH ITS SIM AND JAG IN A CIRCLE JERK TOGETHER! oh great! would you guys grow up and stop arguing about the same shit week after week after week?

I wondered why there were no big emo rants. You were gone for a week.
Love and kisses, Babs!

 

[lunalove]

Kind of, but there's probably a better way to phrase it. It's more that Js favor sequential structure and order in the external world, which often translates into diligent planning and difficulty adapting to external changes quickly without time to reassess and make new plans.

Ps favor holistic, internalized structure and consistency, but will allow comparatively more flexibility in the way they deal with the outer world. This often translates into less propensity for planning, instead relying on ability to adapt to outward changes as they occur.

So, in a way you have a point, because Ps are more likely to just figure things out as they come up, and Js are more likely to have already planned for them, but the J's plans are not always long-range. They might be intended for a duration as short as a few hours--"How am I going to plan my day today?"

I would suggest that short range vs. long range thinking is more related to S vs. N.

I like to know what's coming, but I don't plan well. I do find that I don't like my schedule to be filled with too much to do...I do things kind of slowly. I like to think of the future in terms of things to look forward to, but I think I've lived (too much) of my life in the past When I think of the future, I have a tendency to think of what could go wrong/right. Is that INFJ or INFP (hope you don't mind the question?) Thanks!

 

[Saslou]

Sim - I would suggest that short range vs. long range thinking is more related to S vs. N.

Sorry but i disagree with this theory. As an 'S' i am more than capable of thinking both short and long range.

I saved for 5 years to move to another country and i am in currently in debate whether to attend an event tomorrow.

 

[SillySapienne]

I don't think long-range linearly, if that makes sense.

I think all types of ranges, zigzaggy, colossal, microscopic, but all very pertinent.

I'm okay with going with the flow, but I think about shit all the time, to a flaw.

There are a few moments when I can completely let go.

But, other than these moments, I think in broader or deeper terms/ranges.

 

[Venom]

Sim - I would suggest that short range vs. long range thinking is more related to S vs. N.

Sorry but i disagree with this theory. As an 'S' i am more than capable of thinking both short and long range.

I saved for 5 years to move to another country and i am in currently in debate whether to attend an event tomorrow.

totally agree. ENFPs are actually the worst planners out of everyone I know... (im actually being serious and not just hating on enfps as usual).

 

[Thalassa]

edcoaching

I thought it was Solitary Wanker. He wrote a book, you know.

 

[Jaguar]

Wanker. HA!

 

[Thalassa]

I am not biased. You are reading something into my post that isn't there, or wasn't intended.

I was very clear in my description on the Ayn Rand post.

Any archetype that uses a function, or attitude of a particular function, (which can occur in a dysfunctional environment, or for various other reasons) in a manner that is not condusive to emotional health, well-being, or growth of that individual; or is projected to others in a negative manner, is utilizing an unhealthy aspect of that function within that archetype, and this will likely manifest in an unhealthy representation of that archetype.

Besides, I was, and am, more questionning than anything. I think if you can read my post objectively, you could see that. I don't have time to restate what I've already stated clearly and succintly.



Well, this is your personal opinion, just as I have my personal opinion. What wrong with that?

ENTPs' need to "reach out and connect" is more a process of them searching hypervigilantly for information to fuel their Ne. I don't feel them having Fe as their normal teriary function. If you do, great.

For INTJs, you may imagine you see Fe because of the bolded statement :

As a Tertiary Function, Fi typically leads ITJs to retreat into solitary actions that have no constructive worldly effect but are aimed at providing a justification for calling themselves good people. Another example is obsession with the purity of one's soul. For example, being a vegetarian while working at Taco Bell--not out of any great love for animals (the person might hardly know anything about what cows are like), but to be able to say, "Well, at least I never ate any animals." Or engaging in pointless acts of honor, like maintaining super-self-control or "doing one's duty" or going down with the ship. Nothing is gained by going down with the ship; it's a hyper-introverted act aimed at providing a rationalization for one's goodness without regard to real-world consequences. Nearly all of these tertiary-Fi acts involve refraining from action viewed as unethical rather than taking positive action that would accomplish something. They're a retreat from the world--or rather, a rationalization for disregarding worldly matters.

(from Lenore Thomson - yes, Jaguar, I know you're thrilled )

 

[Venom]

(from Lenore Thomson - yes, Jaguar, I know you're thrilled )

I like that description a lot. I basically summarize it by saying: Fi is about calling out "the unconscionables"...

 

[Ginkgo]

I thought it was Solitary Wanker. He wrote a book, you know.

 

[Jaguar]

^ HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Thalassa]

:yim_rolling_on_the_


Tater

 

[simulatedworld]

Sim - I would suggest that short range vs. long range thinking is more related to S vs. N.

Sorry but i disagree with this theory. As an 'S' i am more than capable of thinking both short and long range.

I saved for 5 years to move to another country and i am in currently in debate whether to attend an event tomorrow.

Thanks for demonstrating one of the main S weaknesses by taking a generalized description of average group tendencies as a literal description of every individual member of that group.