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Extreme empaths

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
Fe feels what someone feels right now, whatever it actually is. it may not be able to predict what the very same person will feel if his situation changes, but it can likely predict how that specific individual would react to a having a specific feeling. this is because introverted perception creates a virtual subject that has a specific character (modeled after the observed person) that would feel about a given thing in a given way, and it can tell how the very same character would react if that specific emotional logic is triggered in a certain way.

Fi feels what it (itself) would feel like in a fictional circumstance, so Fi can be empathic about poorly told stories about what happened to someone (Fe cant do that) (stories that do not include information about how someone felt about it), but its personal, meaning it only works reliably if the empath and "target" are similar in what the fictional situation means to them. that's like "do unto others as you would want to be treated". of course, a deep personality can chose a part of their own subject, that is similar to the target, and feel about the fictional situation with that specific part of themselves. this selection process is what introversion does in the realm of the introverted function. Fi can also assume that one emotional logic is likely paired with another emotional logic in the same individual. that's why Fi can tell how a fictional situation would likely trigger a specific emotional logic that has not yet been observed in the individual.

this selection of a specific part of ones own subject, which matches the observed individual is also what introversion does in the realm of intuition or sensing. that's why introverted perception is all about sharing views (knowing what one can understand, how he interprets, what reaction his interpretation will likely activate), which is not empathy but a cool profiling, and what i said above about how Fe can predict a reaction to an emotion, the emotion being the product of an interpretation, is related to and dependent on that. usually Fe is combined with introverted perception. if it is not, like in the case of Ti-dom with Fe shadow, that profiling thing does not work very well.

none of that is mere sympathy. sympathy meaning that you recognize someone as buddy if he coincidentally feels, thinks or appreciates (taste=sensing) what you happen to like to begin with. sympathy does not require any amount of introversion in any function, because it does not require selection or compilation of a specific subjectivity that matches the person you are dealing with.

a bit disorderly this text ... but meh
 

disregard

mrs
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,826
MBTI Type
INFP
Fe feels what someone feels right now, whatever it actually is. ... Fi feels what it (itself) would feel like in a fictional circumstance

Do you have a source? I find this to be absolutely false.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
that would be me and my observation of other people. i dont cook by any book.
 

disregard

mrs
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,826
MBTI Type
INFP
that would be me and my observation of other people. i dont cook by any book.

Your observation? Do people have Fi and Fe written into their DNA? How do you know the behaviors you observe can be attributed to them?

Why redefine as you see fit what already has a definition?
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
actually the abstract principle of introversion (meta-subjectivity, as described, compiling a specific subject to see (NS), think (T) or feel in a specific way), which was defined by jung and which is sort of proved by the fact that it makes sense and can be observed, is what dictates which type of feeling (or any function) is to be labeled extroverted and which one is to be labeled introverted. the introverted one is the one with meta-subjectivity. the extroverted one is the one without it. other than that, yes some individuals (an i prefer extroverted people for orientation) are clearly defined enough to have their orientation of feeling written over their foreheads.
 

disregard

mrs
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,826
MBTI Type
INFP
actually the abstract principle of introversion (meta-subjectivity, as described, compiling a specific subject to see (NS), think (T) or feel in a specific way), which was defined by jung and which is sort of proved by the fact that it makes sense and can be observed, is what dictates which type of feeling (or any function) is to be labeled extroverted and which one is to be introverted. the introverted one is the one with meta-subjectivity. the extroverted one is the one without it. other than that, yes some individuals (an i prefer extroverted people for orientation) are clearly defined enough to have their orientation of feeling written over their foreheads.

I am well-aware that extraverted processes are objective and introverted processes are subjective. But the way you applied that knowledge was incorrect. Don't forget that the feeling processes are about values, NOT interpretations of the feelings of others.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
The Renaissance in the Noosphere

that was an interesting post victor. i also feel that in the modern western world there is a growth in narcissism... it profits the system. there are so many sad people around who are feeding their wants and suppressing their needs. it is hard for a thinking, feeling individual to live in a society, which sort of "forces" us to think that things that aren't important, should be... i often feel like there's this pressure to believe that we aren't capable... that we need this and that to function and that fleeting pleasures are the only thing we should be seeking. i am sad that there seems to be this decrease in valuing life. everything is only to be enjoyed and to superficially feed our infantile egos... it's like we are pressured to find our little place and stay there, but not to question, not to really take part, not to grow... i don't know if i'm seeing this objectively at all, but i feel like there's an imbalance.

For the Ancient Greeks to be free was to take part in public life.

But in a narcissistic society to be free means to enjoy our private life.

So in Ancient Greece to be free was to be a responsible adult.

But today to be free is freedom to consume.

To be free today means to be an infant all your life.

Fortunately our society is based on Ancient Greek philosophy, Judaism, Christianity and Humanism. So to grow up we don't need to invent anything new, all we need to do it to recover our Ancient Greek heritage.

And we have done this once before. After a lapse of one thousand years we recovered our Ancient Greek heritage in the Renaissance.

And just as our Ancient Greek heritage was kept for us in the libraries of Christian monasteries, so today our Ancient Greek heritage is awaiting us on the internet. It is only a click away and Ancient Greek is such a beautiful language.

And so a second Renaissance is in the offing. A second Renaissance is blowing in the wind. Indeed the noosphere is a second Renaissance.
 

disregard

mrs
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,826
MBTI Type
INFP
Are you afraid of stating your point?

If you are not, why rely upon winks to get it across?
 

Night

Boring old fossil
Joined
Nov 2, 2007
Messages
4,755
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5/8
15 respondents.

9 (primarily) Fi users.

4 (primarily) Fe users.

2 ambiguous (Fx) respondents.

My comment speaks for itself. ;)

I responded, and I'm not represented within this demographic.
 
D

Dali

Guest
You are. I meant 'primarily Fi' with regards to F-use rather than the 4-main functions.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
6,072
MBTI Type
ENFP
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7w6
^You just mean "responses" no matter what they are?
 

disregard

mrs
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,826
MBTI Type
INFP
My evidence, if you can call it that, is merely anecdotal. Using a specific example, the majority of people I know who refuse to watch horror movies or are most affected by them are Fi users.

It was a throwaway comment. :jew:

Oh, okay. I just like to debate, please don't take it personally. :)
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
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INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx

Because many profiles say that empathy is mostly an Fi thing. The official doctrine decrees that in order to be genuinely empathetic you must be an Fi type, to be genuinely intelligent, you must be a Ti type, to be conscientious an SJ, and so forth. In other words, hail Keirsey! No, seriously, Please Understand Me Vol. I and II is the source of much of this putridity.
 

proteanmix

Plumage and Moult
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5,514
Enneagram
1w2
My evidence, if you can call it that, is merely anecdotal. Using a specific example, the majority of people I know who refuse to watch horror movies or are most affected by them are Fi users.

Well, the majority of people I know who refuse to watch horror movies are Fe users. Saying stuff like that I can just turn around and refute it with my own experience and then what?

It was a throwaway comment. :jew:

I understand, but people make comments like this and then it becomes a dominant perception which is perpetuated and incorrect.

And like Victor stated in his post, being empathetic is a social trophy. Look at how most people are saying they're empathetic...via going to movies. I feel like people who are put in real situations the have a need for sustained empathy, sympathy, and compassion, i.e. nurses, social workers, teachers, mental health care professionals live horrific situations day in and day out. It's not a movie they can just get up and leave after a few hours of entertainment and have their empathy pack recharged until the next Saw comes out.

I find equating "empathy" with sitting in a movie theater and getting creeped out by simulated gore offensive. It was meant to creep you out, the whole reason and staging of the scenes were done for that purpose, so the empathizing is contrived really, like reading a Hallmark card or cooing at the sight of puppies. To me it totally trivializes people who have to draw on empathy in situations that matter and the coping mechanisms and strategies they must use to keep from being completely burned out.

According to the article, extreme empathy is a neurological disorder. Are people claiming this or something else?
 

Lauren Ashley

Revelation
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
3,067
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm not so sure about correlation with type either. Some people just are more susceptible to such things.

I do experience it but I don't think it's anything extreme. It happens with fiction, listening to music, moreso with documentaries, real-life stories... personal encounters, things like that. Emotional and physical pain. But it doesn't happen all the time. It definitely depends greatly on my involvement, whether I enter the kind of state of mind where it affects me to such a degree.

I do get a strong physical reaction, it's like a sudden intense sensation alike getting goosebumps, knots in the stomach and pressure in my ears and temples. It's just a general uneasy feeling of helplessness because there's nothing I can do about it but observe.

I can watch horror movies and whatever, I don't consciously avoid feeling so empathetic and I don't go out of my way to seek it out either but it does have quite a strong impact on me. I don't consider it as something negative, rather it's a way to learn from other people's experiences.

This.

I don't have a strong reaction to most horror movies (maybe because they are so exaggerated and unbelievable?), but I do get very strong feelings of sadness when watching movies where the characters are suffering, in a bad situation, or being hurt emotionally, or real-life encounters where there is much negativity. Also, if someone is embarrassed or saddened, I will often feel that way too. I'm not a huge moviegoer, but the last movie I remember having such a strong reaction to was Seven Pounds. All of this isn't something I would wave from a banner or pat myself on the back for; I deal with it and learn from it, but I used to believe it was more trouble than anything else.

I think empathy transcends type, for the most part.
 
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