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Let's Discuss Te/Fi,Fi/Te vs. Ti/Fe, Fe/Ti

onemoretime

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Jun 29, 2009
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For that matter, why do conflicts seem to be more exaggerated between TeFi and TiFe and not, say, between SeNi and SiNe?

My first thought is that perhaps the TF differences lead to differences in value judgments on a particular problem, where SN differences lead to differences in framing a particular problem in the first place.

Judging vs. perceiving. The former differences come from what one inherently believes to be right about the world. The latter differences come from how one collects info about the world.

SeNi and SiNe will simply not understand the other, and either grow bored or laugh it off. There's no Je that's trying to remake the world in its own image under attack there.
 

the state i am in

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i think Fe-Ti vs Fi-Te is a monumental difference. it doesn't determine whether i like someone, it's just a huge factor in understanding uncommunicated values, direction of attention, rationale (moral), etc.

but before that is N vs S. this is a far greater source of miscommunication.

and J vs P plays a role almost as pressing, those with Pe vs Pi have very different characteristics as well. i feel most understood by Ne doms bc they can more aggressively, easily, naturally find me wherever i am. like a homing missile.
 

sculpting

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i think Fe-Ti vs Fi-Te is a monumental difference. it doesn't determine whether i like someone, it's just a huge factor in understanding uncommunicated values, direction of attention, rationale (moral), etc.

but before that is N vs S. this is a far greater source of miscommunication.

and J vs P plays a role almost as pressing, those with Pe vs Pi have very different characteristics as well. i feel most understood by Ne doms bc they can more aggressively, easily, naturally find me wherever i am. like a homing missile.

I dunno, state, maybe it is better to have a different N vs S. At least then you dont trick yourself into thinking you understand the other and then have a massive breakdown in communication when you hit the judging functions.
 

wren

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There's always plenty of talk on the forums about Te vs. Ti and Fi vs. Ti (especially) and Fe vs. Fi ...I'm not sure if I've ever seen Te vs. Fe, but okay, that too.

But what about interactions between types which share both Fi and Te or Ti and Fe? That is, grouping xxTJ and xxFP on one end and xxTP an xxFJ on the other.

My reasons for beginning this thread are the obvious recent conflicts between ENTPs and xNFPs...and personally I've noticed that while an obnoxious ENTP on the forum might make me feel vaguely homicidal for a split second, most of the xNTJs on here don't bother me in the slightest, even if they're being abrasive.

Anybody?

Would you do me a big favor and include the mbti or socionics (or state this doesn't correspond to) type?

On another note, today, I think I witnessed an estj and I was really delighted that I had recognized the personality. It was at work and I kept saying to myself 'you don't need a microphone' while he was speaking. (no, I didn't feel he was entp either). In another era I may have been irritated by this style's presentation, but I had more awareness today and didn't feel this person was an egomaniac or trying to push my buttons, like I might have done in the past without the broad mindedness I've been developing lately. At least I'm getting something out of hanging around on the forum. :)

Fi dominates do irritate me. Mostly it's because when I interact with someone like this I feel like I'm placed below their own concerns and some other issues. Then when I try to make myself known to them I receive lots of advice. I've learned to stay away from Fi dom like isfp and infp when they have an agenda.
 

the state i am in

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values are a combination of what you see AND the rationale to get there. rationale = the structures in place to reason shit out. and mistakes are often productive, they create more wiggle room, and help you see more than you would by yourself. which is why you communicate at all, no? unless you already know the answer, or aren't willing to change.

Ne types, for instance, don't get what i say directly as i say it. they transform it into something else. but the process makes it real in a way that, as i experience it, it is not. i'm grateful for this- it's very grounding, albeit in a way that is not limiting, or destructive, or stuck in the mud.

but without the perceptual skills to locate the meanings in play for you, the rationale process doesn't matter so much. granted there's various social similarities, and isjfs are usually easy for me to get along with, but most of what i see is unable to be properly translated. the languages of experience don't merge much at all.

not to mention that miscommunication has a far greater chance of being fixed, rectified, corrected with other N types for me. the potential to move toward a better, closer understanding of each other feels much much higher to me. and the ability to communicate what you see in a way that can be perceived by someone else generally makes it feel like a more worthwhile process. and the feedback i get is more relevant for my way of seeing the world, and hopefully vice versa.
 

entropie

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Ne types, for instance, don't get what i say directly as i say it. they transform it into something else. but the process makes it real in a way that, as i experience it, it is not. i'm grateful for this- it's very grounding, albeit in a way that is not limiting, or destructive, or stuck in the mud.

That's good things you said there. I quoted that special paragraph cause it reminded me of an issue.

The issue you described I have with a special person and exactly in the moment you said "they dont get directly what I say as I say it" something in me as always rebelled cause I feel like this lone statement is wrong. And I do that because I think you cant say what you mean due to various reasons:

- one does change every second he lives, what did bug you now, may not bug you tomorrow, cause your perception changed. That doesnt mean you have no morales, ideals or security at all. It means saying for example an old woman is mean is a value assesment which can change tomorrow when you get to know that her husband died early and its what made her mad. You can now have two views on that: the 1st: you'll never get to know about the husband cause you just think she is plain mean and can go fuck herself. Or 2nd you think knowing about her husband wouldnt change that I still think she's mean. In the sense of: she could have been a good person no matter what happened, cause being a good person is what it takes.

Both attitudes do not exist in my mind but they do exist.

So I forgot what I wanted to prove but wait...

I think the main source of conflict between me and my girl is that as you said I do interpret the things she saies from her point of view. And from my point of view I totally loose track of what she really wanted to say + I feel disbanded from her cause I dont share her attitude to speak in absolutes.

I have not found a way out of this yet, but I am convincing it cant be solved by talking about it.

It's like a tautology. The one does like a thing in the other which also leads to the demise of both of them, cause uncontrolled they cant speak to each other no more.

You noticed ? I saied control, I'ld never use such words that's evil influence...

I figured for myself in the end the problem consists of two parts. The first is the miscommunication and the second is my ego.

I tried to fight my ego to not get pissed so easily but that didnt work, it made her ego so strong that my opinion became enslaved by myself.

Which lead me to the last and ultimate resolution: just be yourself. Be a man. You may love her and you may want to show her your feelings but on the same time you're a man and as one of that species you have to be the one who stays far often more calm than anyone else.

If that does cost me some expressed love with my girl or if I'ld loose some of my imaginative capabilities on the track fuck that.

Because in my opinion, many Ne types have forgotten what is the only thing they fight for and did start this whole war just because of it: and that is a well-developed longing for closure and harmony in chaos.
 

Thalassa

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Fi dominates do irritate me. Mostly it's because when I interact with someone like this I feel like I'm placed below their own concerns and some other issues. Then when I try to make myself known to them I receive lots of advice. I've learned to stay away from Fi dom like isfp and infp when they have an agenda.


Ha ha I tend to have this feeling more about FJs (like they have an agenda I should avoid) particularly ExFJs and ISFJs more so than INFJs, though I guess occasionally them too. I do generally love INFJs for some reason - maybe it's cuz they're Ni dom.
 

cascadeco

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i think Fe-Ti vs Fi-Te is a monumental difference. it doesn't determine whether i like someone, it's just a huge factor in understanding uncommunicated values, direction of attention, rationale (moral), etc.

but before that is N vs S. this is a far greater source of miscommunication.

and J vs P plays a role almost as pressing, those with Pe vs Pi have very different characteristics as well. i feel most understood by Ne doms bc they can more aggressively, easily, naturally find me wherever i am. like a homing missile.

:yes:

Pretty much the same for me.

To the OP - it's not nearly as obvious in real life (mostly because irl I'm not often finding myself in intensely intellectual, personal, or mbti-related discussions), but at least here on the boards, I definitely find myself relating much more to NFJ's and NTP's (and understanding effortlessly, because I think about things in a similar way) than with NFP's and NTJ's. NTJ's aren't as big of a deal of the two, and I kind of see them as in between the NFJ/NTP and the NFP's. But, yeah, I've said it before, I just don't really comprehend Fi much/most of the time - and as a cognitive process, utilized for thinking/conceptualizing the world, and priorities, and all of that, it's farthest from how I personally operate. So on the boards, whereas with NTP's/NFJ's I often have 'Yeah, totally!' moments, with NFP's/NTJ's I'll intstead have 'Huh, interesting/strange' moments. :)
 

sculpting

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When angry:
FeTi withdraws (although Ti can counter)
FiTe is outspoken

When hurt:
FeTi speaks up
FiTe withdraws (although Te can counter)

I based the above on EXXPs

one error-it is hard to hurt an EXTP as they let few people close, thus mostly likely you see the EXTP shrug of annoyance instead.

Somebody asked what an INFJ would do. So I gathered data on three INFJs I know in real life. Their responses:

When angry:
FeTi feels more annoyed then angry, and withdraws, voice becomes lower and they even feel a bit calmer. Same basic answer as above.

When hurt:
FeTi first retreats, asks if the pain is their issue or a larger issue that needs to be addressed. If a larger issue, they later will find the right time/place/mood to directly discuss the issue. Unless you hurt them very badly, in which case you get an INFJ doorslam.

The few ISFJs I have known do this as well, but with a heavy sweet coating. I once had an ISFJ friend who was married to an ENTP. She would complain about him and her frustration and my advice was to be very direct and open-the FiTe approach-where she instead would find just the right time and mood, and then be sickeningly sweet and gentle.

EDIT: As always, please let me know if it sounds f'ed up because three is a small sample size.
 

natalia93

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I based the above on EXXPs

one error-it is hard to hurt an EXTP as they let few people close, thus mostly likely you see the EXTP shrug of annoyance instead.

Somebody asked what an INFJ would do. So I gathered data on three INFJs I know in real life. Their responses:

When angry:
FeTi feels more annoyed then angry, and withdraws, voice becomes lower and they even feel a bit calmer. Same basic answer as above.

When hurt:
FeTi first retreats, asks if the pain is their issue or a larger issue that needs to be addressed. If a larger issue, they later will find the right time/place/mood to directly discuss the issue. Unless you hurt them very badly, in which case you get an INFJ doorslam.

SOOO MUCH YES TO THE BOLDED PART!!! Also the doorslam, but I've only done that on extremely rare occasions. You have to hurt me to the core for me to doorslam and not come back and let you explain your side after I cool down (if there is any reason I should keep you in my life, that is. Otherwise you can go fuck yourself ;) )

The fact that I am so understanding and able to see other people's reason for doing things (to the point where I honestly give them too slack most of the time), yet also able to completely flip and completely shut people out and have such strong negative feelings for them has always perplexed me. I see myself as a caring, open minded, and understanding person; the shut out seemed like such a contrast to this that it made me question if perhaps I'm not as caring as I initially thought. I'm so glad this relates to my personality type and is 'normal' within the abnormal INFJ type. Understanding things such as this based on some sort of external feedback/understanding prevents me from being destroyed by the ever present cognitive dissonance I experience in regard to my personality.
 

LucieCat

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You're Fe dom and you have strong clashes with Fe doms? Really?
I've encountered Fe doms that clash with other Fe doms before. It's fascinating. A theory of mine is that people who share the same dominant judging function seem to be more likely to clash than those with the same dominant perceiving function. Just something I've noticed.
 
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