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Stupid Thinkers...

Tamske

Writing...
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
1,764
MBTI Type
ENTP
Are Ts always intelligent? I don't think so.

Ts prefer to use logic rather than emotions to decide upon. That doesn't imply their logic is strong...

I've found an example. Mrs. Wormwood (Matilda, Roald Dahl) is a stupid ESTJ. She loves to watch soaps, but she doesn't care one iota about the characters - she likes to look at profit and riches. A girl has to take care of her appearance... to get a rich husband. Everything is aimed at the goal of a rich and easy life.

I'm in search of:
- other examples :)
- maybe some descriptions of stupid Thinkers :)

PS. the twin question: is it possible to be a Feeler with the emotional depth of a teaspoon?
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Some people would consider the goal of having a rich and easy life very intelligent. Also, if you look at the not-so-distant past, women pretty much had to rely on men so it made perfect sense to look good to get a rich husband if being rich was your goal in life. That isn't stupidity. It's base. We could even say there's something primitive and degrading about it. But it isn't stupid.

I agree with you, though, that not all Ts are smarties. Logic isn't infallable.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Yes to both questions. I know stupid thinkers (some who's stupidity they can't help due to mental issues). I do know feelers who don't have that much emotional depth... but they obviously make decisions based on their feelings entirely. They are bad with their own emotions, yet make decisions based off of them.

Bad news it would seem. :violin:
 

nomadic

mountain surfing
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
1,709
MBTI Type
enfp
I think sometimes i have the emotional depth of a teaspoon

Like the other day, someone was calling me at 3am a bazillion times, but i didn't answer cus I was with a bunch of peoples and i didn't want to see that person at the time. later i found out that person had a flat tire in a dangerous neighborhood and was scared.
 

simulatedworld

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
5,552
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Are Ts always intelligent? I don't think so.

Ts prefer to use logic rather than emotions to decide upon. That doesn't imply their logic is strong...

I've found an example. Mrs. Wormwood (Matilda, Roald Dahl) is a stupid ESTJ. She loves to watch soaps, but she doesn't care one iota about the characters - she likes to look at profit and riches. A girl has to take care of her appearance... to get a rich husband. Everything is aimed at the goal of a rich and easy life.

I'm in search of:
- other examples :)
- maybe some descriptions of stupid Thinkers :)

PS. the twin question: is it possible to be a Feeler with the emotional depth of a teaspoon?


Well, I think you see Mrs. Wormwood as stupid partially because she has Te and you have Ti. The aims and values of those functions are very different. In her value system, getting rich and making profit (and watching how these things occur) is much more important than identifying with the characters or caring about whether or not her actions are seen by others as logically consistent. That's Te for you.

Stupid Thinkers are just those who have no use of Feeling/don't understand the value in Feeling regardless of the situation. "Stupid" in typology terms can be described pretty easily as failing to understand why anyone would ever use the opposite function--being so mired in your perspective that you can't even grasp how the opposite one might have any value, ever.

Regarding stupid feelers--yes, it's possible to be an F type with very poor use of Feeling, assuming your use of Thinking is even worse. Most "stupid Feelers" are just people who don't understand why Thinking would ever have any value, though.

Most people unconsciously define "intelligent" as "good at my dominant function" because they don't see any other perspectives well enough to recognize that their dominant function isn't somehow objectively the "correct" approach to life. Very few people actually consider themselves genuinely stupid, because intelligence is relative.
 

Tamske

Writing...
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
1,764
MBTI Type
ENTP
Well, I think you see Mrs. Wormwood as stupid partially because she has Te and you have Ti.
I don't think that's the only reason. I've found lots of intelligent Te user examples (both real and fictional) around me. Mrs. Wormwood was very interesting to me because she was the first stupid Thinker example I found.
True, Te gets the job done for her... like a Te should do. But I wouldn't call her "intelligent"...

Most people unconsciously define "intelligent" as "good at my dominant function" because they don't see any other perspectives well enough to recognize that their dominant function isn't somehow objectively the "correct" approach to life. Very few people actually consider themselves genuinely stupid, because intelligence is relative.
This is a very interesting point!

Te-dom: "why don't you do it my way, you will reach your goals much faster."
Ti-dom: "why don't you do it my way, that's at least consistent."
Fe-dom: "why don't you do it my way, you'll have a lot of relations you can rely on."
Fi-dom: "why don't you do it my way, you'll be true to yourself."
Se-dom:" why don't you do it my way, there's a lot of interesting observations you miss out."
Si-dom: "why don't you do it my way, there's no use to inventing the warm water twice."
Ne-dom: "why don't you do it my way, there are a lot of interesting ideas you miss out."
Ni-dom: "why don't you do it my way, using your warm water knowledge for all warm liquids?"

The main reason why I'd call Mrs. Wormwood "stupid" is because she isn't curious and is unable to accept new ideas... so I'm actually calling her stupid for not using Ne!

Let me do a little experiment...
Mrs Wormwood: "Tamske is stupid, because she's making life difficult. She could have a much easier life, just doing her job and relaxing afterwards. She's even unable to enjoy herself, she's always longing for some unattainable goal!"

You're absolutely right. Very interesting! :worthy:
 

FeatheredFrenzy

New member
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
179
MBTI Type
ISFJ
I think sometimes i have the emotional depth of a teaspoon

Like the other day, someone was calling me at 3am a bazillion times, but i didn't answer cus I was with a bunch of peoples and i didn't want to see that person at the time. later i found out that person had a flat tire in a dangerous neighborhood and was scared.

Based on your posting, I don't think anyone would question your emotional depth.
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
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sp/sx
My emotional depth is a mile long. I just put a lid on it.
 

Litvyak

No Cigar
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
1,822
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Stupid Thinkers are just those who have no use of Feeling/don't understand the value in Feeling regardless of the situation.

Not necessarily. As the OP put it: you might have a preference to use logic over emotions without having a logical mind.

The world is full of stupid thinkers (and feelers, but that's another case).
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Let me do a little experiment...
Mrs Wormwood: "Tamske is stupid, because she's making life difficult. She could have a much easier life, just doing her job and relaxing afterwards. She's even unable to enjoy herself, she's always longing for some unattainable goal!"

Sounds very zen to me.
 

Oaky

Travelling mind
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
6,180
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I call Matilda in being a genius INFJ. T =/= intelligence
I mean just have a look at the last president of the US.
 

Laurie

Was E.laur
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
6,072
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
The correct misnomer is actually "NTs are always intelligent"
 

dnivera

New member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
165
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp
It becomes easy to convince yourself to do something you don't like (or don't want to do) with logic. For example: breaking off a relationship with someone purely for pragmatic reasons, such as distance or lack of time.
 

Tamske

Writing...
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
1,764
MBTI Type
ENTP
I call Matilda in being a genius INFJ. T =/= intelligence
I mean just have a look at the last president of the US.
I agree with you on T not being the same as intelligence... well, that was the starting point of this thread actually.
I didn't really ask for intelligent Feeler examples, as I know a busload full of them! :D
Still, I disagree with Matilda being a Feeler... First of all, are you talking about the book or the movie? The movie Matilda is definitely a F, but the book Matilda isn't... she seems INTJ to me.

Back to topic - I want more stupid Thinker examples... More specifically, I want to explore the ways in which people can prefer logic/thinking and still be dumb.

What about Mr. Kranky (George's Marvelous Medicine), to stick with Roald Dahl? An ENTP if I ever saw one, and he isn't that smart...
 

ajblaise

Minister of Propagandhi
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
7,914
MBTI Type
INTP
There are plenty of stupid thinkers, especially if they're 40% of the population, there's bound to be an endless amount. From statistics I've seen, Ts are only a little more likely than Fs to have high IQ or SAT scores. E/I and S/N has more to do with IQ test performance, favoring IN.

There's even stupid NTs. ENTPs are super dumb. ;)

I don't think IQ measures intelligence perfectly, but it gives a decent rough estimate. I don't know about the reliability of the MBTI studies, but they seem to mirror what I see IRL.
 
R

Riva

Guest
Are Ts always intelligent? I don't think so.

Ts prefer to use logic rather than emotions to decide upon. That doesn't imply their logic is strong...

I've found an example. Mrs. Wormwood (Matilda, Roald Dahl) is a stupid ESTJ. She loves to watch soaps, but she doesn't care one iota about the characters - she likes to look at profit and riches. A girl has to take care of her appearance... to get a rich husband. Everything is aimed at the goal of a rich and easy life.

I'm in search of:
- other examples :)
- maybe some descriptions of stupid Thinkers :)

PS. the twin question: is it possible to be a Feeler with the emotional depth of a teaspoon?

Nice...

But please explain to me why you came to the conclusion that a certain person is stupid because of the points you provided.

The title is definitely a good point to explore. Especially due to the fact that some 'T' believe themselves to be smarter than 'F' types.

Being T doesn't make a person smarter than a F type.

-------------------------------

But your OP definitely doesn't prove the point you are trying to make in the title.

Please try again.
 

Tamske

Writing...
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
1,764
MBTI Type
ENTP
Nice...
But please explain to me why you came to the conclusion that a certain person is stupid because of the points you provided.
Have you read Matilda? I've just indicated Mrs. Wormwood's character by some striking points in her behaviour. I tried to provide arguments indicating she's a T...
I thought her being dumb was obvious...

The title is definitely a good point to explore. Especially due to the fact that some 'T' believe themselves to be smarter than 'F' types.
Being T doesn't make a person smarter than a F type.
I know :)
I know a lot of smart Feeler examples. I know a lot of stupid Feeler examples. I know a lot of smart Thinker examples.

But your OP definitely doesn't prove the point you are trying to make in the title.
Point?
Which point?
"Thinkers are stupid"? I didn't want to prove that.
"Thinkers are smart because we don't find stupid Thinker examples"? I didn't want to prove that.

I just want to collect some stupid Thinker examples... to complete my collection of examples. So my title is "Stupid Thinkers" - as I want to talk about stupid thinkers. I don't want to prove anything.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
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sp/sx
MBTI is not a skill-based evaluation of people. It describes cognitive processes not aptitude. When something is being tested, there seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to assume it is measuring skill.

Feeling is also not based on emotion. It is based on a holistic approach that views subjective issues while Thinking focuses on the more measured, linear, logical definable problems and solutions. In this way Feeling is more likely to include emotional components of addressing issues, but that is more of a subset of its approach to reasoning.

With most of these MBTI categories there appears to be little difference between categories in application except for a few rare cases. It is just rare to encounter someone who is objective or who has great empathy. Most of the time either is a struggle for a person. Over-reliance on ego and the perspective of self destroys the ability to analyze objectively or to understand another with empathy. The world would actually be a marvelous place if every person aboard was innately skilled with one or the other.
 
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