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Stupid Thinkers...

ReadingRainbows

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My father was the same way. He was a 'genuis'. certifiable. But he was a bi-polar mess of a human being. His emotional development was so low and fragile that he just couldn't cope with anything. By the time I was born , he was done being a lousy parent and just did nothing but read books and watch the Muppets. Who gives a shit what you know if your relationships are fucked up? Intelligence can be a crutch and a method of avoidance for some....

You just described my mother :doh: Especially with the reading and The Muppet Show thing.
 

OrangeAppled

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Please don't cite the nutty Republican blog. I'm tired of seeing that one.

I'm quoting it's quotation of stats from a study. Who cares about the blog itself, or what you are or are not tired of.
:coffee:

Anyway, the point is that F or T, J or P and I or E had far less to do with the test results than S or N.
 

EJCC

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What about Ts who are geniuses and idiots at the same time? Like an INTP kid I used to know who's probably going to discover the cure for cancer in a few decades, who's done all these stupid things like
1. accidentally making chlorine gas in his kitchen
2. accidentally setting his entire lawn on fire
3. forgetting the name of the high school he attended
etc. etc. etc.

Also, some cartoon character examples of stupid thinkers:
- the pointy-haired boss from "Dilbert"
- Wile E. Coyote
- Johnny Bravo
- Moe, the bully from "Calvin and Hobbes"
 

highlander

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I googled stuff:

The Relationship of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) to IQ Level and the Fluid and Crystallized IQ Discrepancy on the Kaufman Adolescent and Adult Intelligence Test (KAIT) -- Kaufman et al. 3 (3): 225 -- Assessment




Liberty Corner: IQ and Personality



This article indicates Feelers had an edge:
Analysis of MBTI type patterns in college scholars - page 3 | College Student Journal


The trend here and most other studies I've personally come across is that intuitives score higher on IQ tests and tests that gauge intelligence/"giftedness" (which is really a certain kind of smarts, and these studies are always questionable). Some studies indicate that introversion, judging and thinking give a slight edge, but not nearly as much as intuitiveness.

Thinking is just a cognitive process - it does not make someone smart, not even book smart. Think about the stereotypical STP meatheads - sure, it's a stereotype, but it shows how Thinkers can be and come across as stupid.

I have never seen these statistics, but have heard that Ns generally do better on these types of tests and that a large portion of, I think it was ENFPs (Bill Clinton maybe??) get Rhodes Scholarships. Other types of smarts (e.g., Emotional intelligence) are probably overall more important to success in life though.

There is this experiment I read about once - you give two small children a marshmallow and tell them not to eat it and if they don't, when you come back you'll get two. The ones who couldn't wait - who ate the marshmallow were much less likely to be successful later in life than the ones who waited and got two. It has something to do with self control and ability to postpone gratification I believe. That would be one example of emotional intelligence.
 

tinkerbell

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Sak_SynthesisOfResearchOnPsychologicalTypes05.gif


From here.

Post any dueling studies if you have them.

Not notice anything suspicious about those sample sizes at all? Absolutely sample size of c.5700, then spikes to 9000 and it really is all over the place after that.... will pick my way through the wider report, but the reporting is B-A-D.... I'm not saying that the N theory doesn't hold true....
 

tinkerbell

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Not notice anything suspicious about those sample sizes at all? Absolutely sample size of c.5700, then spikes to 9000 and it really is all over the place after that.... will pick my way through the wider report, but the reporting is BAD.... I'm not saying that the N theory doesn't hold true....

Ok having read through there are a few things to think about...

We have 5700-ish Normative respondents (people) and 9000 answers.... how so? We have a gifted sample of how many people (5800-sh responces)?

Define gifted (the sample is made up of a whole bunch of articles/research studies some of wich are unpublished). No clear definition of what Gifted is.

The Normative group relates fairly well to some primary research I did in the UK with an adult audience, ie it was largely similar and in comparision as well as with online MBTI statistics (which I assume are skewed towards the US.

The report reports that Intautive Introvers are higher within the gifter sample... however what it fails to draw out is that it is more even not imbalnced in the gifted sample... ie the general population is skewed heavily towards extrovertion, and in the gifted population it is more 51:49 (E/I).

The phrase
People who preferred introversion and intuition showed greater academic aptitude than those who preferred extraversion and sensing.​

Is not all true, N types are singificantly larger within the gifted sample and when compared with the normative, however I are not (althoguh singificantly more in gifted but not greater than Es in the gifted population).

So there is no directional split of Introvers are more gifted than Extroverts. The difference with this sample size would be significance but in practicality E and I are equal in the gifted population.

N shows a significant skew for the gifted - both against S in the gifted sample and when compared with the N sample in normative data set. (72:28) N:S in the gifted sample, which is virtually opposite to the normaitve sample.

F/T; Gifted show a T skew of c.8%

PJ - shows a proper skew into P for the gifted sample....

so there is a skew towards xNxP for gifteness.

A correlation of 0.76 is not a good correlation, 0.86 is approaching a good correlation so some of the correlations are well shonky.

I'm very dubious about the gifted sample and actually how the research has reported more people than took part in the overall surveys
 

tinkerbell

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INTP 12,03 3,54 3,40
INTJ 7,53 2,62 2,87
INFP 10,41 3,89 2,68
INFJ 4,78 1,79 2,67
ENTP 11,35 4,89 2,32
ENFP 15,45 7,6 2,03
ENTJ 5,84 3,93 1,49
ENFJ 4,55 3,61 1,26
ISTJ 6,83 6,92 0,99
ISTP 3,23 4,16 0,78
ESTP 3,21 6,52 0,49
ISFJ 2,73 6,82 0,40
ISFP 2,15 5,4 0,40
ESFP 2,63 9,37 0,28
ESTJ 3,89 14,97 0,26
ESFJ 3,31 13,97 0,24


Gifted / Norm according to the table above

kinda missing the point...
What does gifted mean, and where did the sample come from? There sin't a definition in the link.

There are more answers than there are people for both the Gifted and the Normative data.... 100 people can't profile 200 times

Also is the gifted a subset of the normative data or not (because if they are not independant then the stats need to be used differently).

Sorry not meaning to be a pain, just it isn't in the report
 

Mad Hatter

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table.gif


kinda missing the point...
What does gifted mean, and where did the sample come from? There sin't a definition in the link.

There are more answers than there are people for both the Gifted and the Normative data.... 100 people can't profile 200 times

Also is the gifted a subset of the normative data or not (because if they are not independant then the stats need to be used differently).

Sorry not meaning to be a pain, just it isn't in the report

Just wanted to screw around with the table a bit - maybe I got it wrong.
I basically meant it as a reply to Marm's post:

Is that chart saying that ENFPs are the most gifted? Because that's what it looks like.
 

tinkerbell

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Avis,

Do you get my point that 100 people can't be profiled 200 times?
 

tinkerbell

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:zzz: ... :doh: Yes I did now ;)

LOL so you are doing analysis on highly questionable data? What the point?

Also the sample sizes are different so dividing one against another is bogus... (but thats my j-ness coming out - and I don't have a lot of it)...

Sorry will shut up, dont' get what you are trying to express, but I'm pretty sure the data in the research needs more explanation to be able to draw very much from it...
 

tinkerbell

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table.gif




Just wanted to screw around with the table a bit - maybe I got it wrong.
I basically meant it as a reply to Marm's post
:

Sorry AVIS......I didn't see the bottom bit... :( Not a ball breaker honest... :)

Marm - yes it is saying there is a higher proportion of the group that they called gifted as ENFP... and they were the largest group.... HOWEVER the sample is questionnable....
 

Mad Hatter

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LOL so you are doing analysis on highly questionable data? What the point?

Also the sample sizes are different so dividing one against another is bogus... (but thats my j-ness coming out - and I don't have a lot of it)...

No; in this case it made sense since I divided percentages against one another (so sample size is already taken into account).

Thus, dividing the Norm percentage against the Gifted percentage is showing deviation between.
For example, INTPs represent only 3.54% of the sample group in total (the way I interpreted the table), but account for 12.03% of the sample group's gifted. If there were an even distribution, one would expect that they would only represent 3.54% of the gifted, thus dividing the first against the latter means that there are 3.40 times more gifted INTPs than one would expect from their distribution.

I don't completely trust the figures either, but my post wasn't about discussing their validity. If - and only if - these numbers were in fact correct, dividing the gifted against the norm would show the deviation.
(I hope this made some kind of sense - if it didn't feel free to point it out.)

Sorry AVIS......I didn't see the bottom bit... Not a ball breaker honest...
Sorry didn't see your bottom bit myself this time :D I just made that table out of curiosity because I wanted to have some figures. Being the lethargic poster I am, there were in fact some days between Marm's post and my reply to it :laugh:
 

tinkerbell

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No; in this case it made sense since I divided percentages against one another (so sample size is already taken into account).

Thus, dividing the Norm percentage against the Gifted percentage is showing deviation between.
For example, INTPs represent only 3.54% of the sample group in total (the way I interpreted the table), but account for 12.03% of the sample group's gifted. If there were an even distribution, one would expect that they would only represent 3.54% of the gifted, thus dividing the first against the latter means that there are 3.40 times more gifted INTPs than one would expect from their distribution.

I don't say that I trust the figures, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. If - and only if - these numbers were in fact correct, dividing the gifted against the norm would show the deviation.

My point is 3.54% is the % of the c5000, the other proportion isn't from that number.... the gifted sample doens't state if it from the normative sample or seperate... it looks seperate... but then you can't do the divide by because the total sample is different....

Personaly speaking:

Nnorm + Ngift = total sample

(%norm*Nnorm) - (%gift*Ngift) = total difference

Total Diff/total sample = % difference

THIS IS A SAD CONVERSATION :D:D:D:D Sorry ooober anality on my part... the data is shonky (or should I say not reorted well) all of this is accademic :D

LOL
 

Mad Hatter

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My point is 3.54% is the % of the c5000, the other proportion isn't from that number.... the gifted sample doens't state if it from the normative sample or seperate... it looks seperate... but then you can't do the divide by because the total sample is different....

That's exactly the crucial part that remains vague. At first glance, I thought it was from the same sample, but thanks again for pointing it out.

THIS IS A SAD CONVERSATION :D:D:D:D Sorry ooober anality on my part... the data is shonky (or should I say not reorted well) all of this is accademic :D

LOL

Au contraire :D I've always thought ENTPs love this sort of discussion as much as I do :D
 

tinkerbell

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That's exactly the crucial part that remains vague. At first glance, I thought it was from the same sample, but thanks again for pointing it out.



Au contraire :D I've always thought ENTPs love this sort of discussion as much as I do :D

I do, but that doens't negate it being sad...

Table 3 looks like it is wrong in the report, I'm going through the other table... it may be all from one sample size... but need to punch it into excel first
 

tinkerbell

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This is the proportion of gifted children from the MBTI category...

I had to tweak a tiny bit to the Gifted sample to get it to add up to 100% - but relatively eavenly done.

so Of All INTPs 64% were gifted...

INTP 64%
INTJ 60%
INFJ 58%
INFP 57%
ENTP 55%
ENFP 51%
ENTJ 44%
ENFJ 40%
ISTJ 34%
ISTP 29%
ESTP 21%
ISFJ 17%
ISFP 17%
ESFP 13%
ESTJ 12%
ESFJ 11%
 

tinkerbell

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and this is the proportion of gifted kids as a percentage of the whole sample

ENFP 5%
INTP 4%
ENTP 4%
INFP 3%
INTJ 3%
ISTJ 2%
ENTJ 2%
INFJ 2%
ENFJ 2%
ESTJ 1%
ESFJ 1%
ESTP 1%
ISTP 1%
ISFJ 1%
ESFP 1%
ISFP 1%

Bottom line xNxP are bright....

Gifted sample = 4828 = which is the column marked N = gifted
Normative sample was 9320 as per the survey... still don't know what the gifted sample means
 
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