Decent female role models

[ubiquitous1]

In another thread Santtu made a comment about women lacking a decent concept of how to be powerful without being pissy. I figured there's a lack of decent role models for this behaviour. Women who have power and presence without gaining it or expressing it via beating others down. So I figured a thread discussing the various role models out there might be interesting as I can't think of more than a few women who have achieved an adequate amount of presence, confidence and relaxed alpha behaviour without putting others down.

Just to establish parameters, Joan Rivers is NOT a good example of a success. That's a fail. As is most if not all of the famous female singers. Mostly this is due to fame warping them and some underlying desperation. A good role model just is as they are, warts and all.

But then I failed to think of any more concrete examples I'm happy with.

Any ideas?

In my opinion, most powerful people are cutthroat, pissy types. Regarding women specifically, I think Oprah Winfrey may be a good example of a woman who has attained power without pissiness. However, I have not studied her history, so I could be wrong. Personally, I admire Ayn Rand and her female characters, especially Dominique Francon in the Fountainhead.

 

[Salomé]

IPersonally, I admire Ayn Rand

Just can't seem to stop women from having these damned inappropriate role-models!
Whatever will we do with them!

I think it's because they simply fail to grasp the concept of men's inherent superiority in all things.

Stupid bitches!

 

[INA]

Going to try to keep this on topic...


This would be impossible nobody is perfect. My understanding of the OP was looking for a role model from a particular sphere - so not comediennes, singers etc. Personally I think there is a value to having role models from those spheres as they many young people aspire to be as famous as Mariah Carey, Julia Roberts (neither chosen for a specific reason - just names picked out).

you two need to develop an outlook that's not dominated by movie- and rock stars.

First is his premise: that decent female models (he refused to touch the decency aspect when that was brought up) are some rarity. That itself is an objectionable rejection of so many women who have fought the odds to become the exception to the male-power rule.

So start looking and discussing instead of pulling the thread apart.

Excuse me, but if I think a thread is based on a faulty premise, I will call it out.

Why are strong female role models portrayed in the media so negatively? Why is it more difficult for women to be recognised for their successes without being torn apart by the press?

according to your man and Sanntu, etc. it's cause they're she-beasts. Hence the quest for the few who poop rainbows.

But you must realize that question - a far better one, btw - orients the thread in a different direction from this thread, which is premised on the notion that something is wrong with the vast majority of these women.
I even asked what these women could have been or done to not fall prey. Crickets are still chirping on that one.

the OP is asking for female input - by asking questions and challenging opinions it's possible to gain insight in to the way other people think and form their opinions. From the ensuing discussion it's also a good way of developing your own opinions. I know that's what I tend to do anyway.

On pain of shoved embers, I suppose.

He didn't just ask for female input. A man asking a woman how she'd like to cook his dinner is asking for female input, after all. He made a declaration of his own input and asked for input to suit his criteria, taking pains to designate that certain people (e.g. Rivers) just don't make the cut.

(off topic now) If I jumped in to every thread where Xander had his point of view challenged I'd understand this comment...

Maybe Xander is the only one you understand. The raging ball of pissy hormones described him, not you. Given the context I don't know why you'd think that referred to you unless you assumed pissy = female.

 

[INA]

I think Oprah Winfrey may be a good example of a woman who has attained power without pissiness

And yet Oprah-hate is near-religion among many (often male) people.

 

[nomadic]

Than what? A moron? Why don't you try it and get back to us.

Getting so angry is really bad for your health. Blocks your endorphin passageways.

And there is nothing wrong with a guy wanting a girl to meet some sort of education threshold. Just like a girl many times expects the same. Your own situation is not my concern.

Btw, when I say "cute", I say it with a big goofy smile on my face. Ahhh, you just wouldn't understand.

 

[Arilee]

I certainly understood what he was getting at, so I didn't make an issue out of it. I understood what he was saying and I simply didn't agree with him. But that's neither here nor there.

The point is that his word choice was extremely unfortunate, and not everyone knows your husband's intentions as well as you do, so we can only go by the words he chose. When you make an inflammatory post like that, you have to expect challenging comments in return. That's just life, really.

Fair point - Agreed.... and I've no doubt challenges were expected...

(But you challenged the subject at hand without personally attacking the poster..)

I'm not familiar with some of the people you identified in your posts, but you did pick out some excellent examples of the sort of role model I tend to think of for various reasons like Marie Curie for being a pioneer in her field and the ongoing research triggered by her initial work

 

[Oddly Refined]

Getting so angry is really bad for your health. Blocks your endorphin passageways.

And there is nothing wrong with a guy wanting a girl to meet some sort of education threshold. Just like a girl many times expects the same. Your own situation is not my concern.

Btw, when I say "cute", I say it with a big smile on my face. Ahhh, you wouldn't understand.

I'm not sure what the context reference is here. I know plenty of women without any kind of college degree that are far more intelligent than some of the women I've encountered at university. One doesn't need higher education to be well read or intelligent.

 

[Haphazard]

Getting so angry is really bad for your health. Blocks your endorphin passageways.

And there is nothing wrong with a guy wanting a girl to meet some sort of education threshold. Just like a girl many times expects the same. Your own situation is not my concern.

It's "cute" when someone picks up something just to try to attract the opposite sex. However, I don't think most women go to college and study really hard to attract the opposite sex. In fact, many of them repel the opposite sex by doing this (especially by doing more 'nerdy' studies, like engineering or physical sciences), and by knowing this, their actions cannot be considered "cute" but should rather be considered "dedicated".

I respect a man who works out to maintain his body. However, a man who does this solely to pick up chicks is "cute" for doing so.

 

[Xander]

Okay so just to keep in touch, my criteria isn't valid because I'm looking for a personal quality which is difficult to measure and label? I should be looking to people who have achieved something concrete?

As to the two who seem rather disappointed with the topic or it's premises but still interested enough to post repeatedly, perhaps you would be brave enough to voice your concerns in PMs so they can be discussed without the hullabaloo and then when we've gotten somewhere we can continue here when it's constructive?

 

[nomadic]

I respect a man who works out to maintain his body. However, a man who does this solely to pick up chicks is "cute" for doing so.

ugh. I hate that.

Guys should work out to get better at sports. not solely to impress girls.

Guys who work out like crazy, but suck at sports = retarded IMO. come on at least some sport based on willpower then, like marathon or something. But get all buff for the girls but suck at throwing a baseball/basketball/football/tennis/ etc... ? Come on... lolz

In that girl's situation, she was bumming it around, and I didn't like that about her. So eventually she started studying for the LSATs to go to law school, and says it was bc of me. Yeah, I thought it was "cute" she did that. And yes, I say that with a goofy smile on my face. Not a condescending look of evil. Sheesh.

 

[nomadic]

Okay so just to keep in touch, my criteria isn't valid because I'm looking for a personal quality which is difficult to measure and label? I should be looking to people who have achieved something concrete?

As to the two who seem rather disappointed with the topic or it's premises but still interested enough to post repeatedly, perhaps you would be brave enough to voice your concerns in PMs so they can be discussed without the hullabaloo and then when we've gotten somewhere we can continue here when it's constructive?

I dunno if its directed at me, but yeah if it is, I'll stop dood. I feel bad now cus I didn't even read most of this thread...

 

[Oddly Refined]

\As to the two who seem rather disappointed with the topic or it's premises but still interested enough to post repeatedly, perhaps you would be brave enough to voice your concerns in PMs so they can be discussed without the hullabaloo and then when we've gotten somewhere we can continue here when it's constructive?

I found many of their comments very interesting actually.

 

[Ghost of the dead horse]

Plz people, drop the idiotic whore-or-saint -scenarios. You're just flattering yourself with all of those. THe whole damned thread is about losing ideas like that and other cr*p that holds you back.

 

[Arilee]

In my opinion, most powerful people are cutthroat, pissy types.

The do tend to be.... but for some reason this is seen as a positive thing for men, but negative when a woman displays these qualities....

Frustrating as hell when you're a woman working in male dominated industries....

 

[INA]

Frustrating as hell when you're a woman working in male dominated industries....

Take it from one who does - you either sack up and play or get the hell out of the ballpark. Who knows, you may end up enjoying it. I do.
The little miss Muffett act gets you nowhere.

 

[Xander]

I dunno if its directed at me, but yeah if it is, I'll stop dood. I feel bad now cus I didn't even read most of this thread...

No, I was referring to the brewing weeing contest. I was considering a step ladder but it seemed more mature to try and remove it from the discussion.

I found many of their comments very interesting actually.

Yup. Which is why I don't want to engage on some concept of mutual deletion of posts. I figured it'd be just better to try to remove any further competition until some personal resolution can be found.

 

[Haphazard]

ugh. I hate that.

Guys should work out to get better at sports. not solely to impress girls.

Guys who work out like crazy, but suck at sports = retarded IMO. come on at least some sport based on willpower then, like marathon or something. But get all buff for the girls but suck at throwing a baseball/basketball/football/tennis/ etc... ? Come on... lolz

In that girl's situation, she was bumming it around, and I didn't like that about her. So eventually she started studying for the LSATs to go to law school, and says it was bc of me. Yeah, I thought it was "cute" she did that. And yes, I say that with a goofy smile on my face. Not a condescending look of evil. Sheesh.

If you put it that way, it sounds sweet. But it sounds like an isolated thing, not a generalized "I like it when girls" etc.

I think there's a difference between working out to get buff to impress the ladies and working out so you don't become lazy slob when you know you're terribly uncoordinated.

 

[Arilee]

But you must realize that question - a far better one, btw - orients the thread in a different direction from this thread, which is premised on the notion that something is wrong with the vast majority of these women.
I even asked what these women could have been or done to not fall prey. Crickets are still chirping on that one.

it's certainly worth looking at although I'm not sure we'd come to any sort of conclusion. IMO where I've come across the situation I find that some men are very intimidated when faced with a woman who is of a strong character and could be more capable at a task than they are. I guess it comes back to social stereo types... I like to challenge this sort of thing - especially as I have pretty much always worked in predominantly male industries where it's very difficult for a woman to gain respect for a technical role.

Maybe Xander is the only one you understand. The raging ball of pissy hormones described him, not you. Given the context I don't know why you'd think that referred to you unless you assumed pissy = female.

Thought it was relating to me because you had commented under a quote from Morgan Le Fay about "Wifey on the warpath". Apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[Arilee]

Take it from one who does - you either sack up and play or get the hell out of the ballpark. Who knows, you may end up enjoying it. I do.
The little miss Muffett act gets you nowhere.

I do enjoy it - that's not to say I don't get incredibly annoyed with it at times though.... Although it's worse for one of my colleagues who's an engineer - we have some customers who don't want to take her advice, purely because she's a girl....

 

[nomadic]

If you put it that way, it sounds sweet. But it sounds like an isolated thing, not a generalized "I like it when girls" etc.

I think there's a difference between working out to get buff to impress the ladies and working out so you don't become lazy slob when you know you're terribly uncoordinated.

haha yeah I guess about the working out thing yea.

I had this ex who I totally pushed to get her master's in education too. reminds me tho that i used to teach this SAT class, and some of the female students seemed like they were "crushing" me. Weird asss hell. Told them to stop wearing makeup in class, esp the ones who sat in front, cus it took away their study time and energy. I made it known that I like diligent students, and i think that made some of the female students study. If they did it to impress me, well thats a good thing. even my current gf, I am totally pushing her to finish up her PhD. but thats a different context.