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Discover your values

camille

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I think part of the reason, possibly the most important or only reason, American males have difficulty figuring out their values is because we don't let them grow into men. We treat them like little boys until they are eighteen, or sometimes older, then say, "Time to grow up and take care of your responsibilities." We don't let them experience what it is like to grow into a man until we put full responsibilities on them.

My values:

openness and candor
accountability
 

Arclight

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I think I have narrowed it down to 2 things..

Love and Personal Success

Every other value is just working towards those 2 ultimate goals.. being able to live with myself and others, unconditionally
 

Poki

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One of my core values is to be true to myself.

Dont worry, be happy :)

Integrity
 

Cenomite

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The only values that I constantly live by are:

1. Being true to yourself
2. Being honest with yourself and others

But even those can be changed if I think that it would be right in-terms of a certain situation. I don't really understand living by static values.

Could someone who does live by a strong set of static values explain to me why you live that way, and why you think it is best? I'd be curious :)
 

proximo

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I think part of the reason, possibly the most important or only reason, American males have difficulty figuring out their values is because we don't let them grow into men. We treat them like little boys until they are eighteen, or sometimes older, then say, "Time to grow up and take care of your responsibilities." We don't let them experience what it is like to grow into a man until we put full responsibilities on them.

Whilst that's certainly true, I wouldn't underestimate the influence of the pressure on males to repress emotions, since values are very much attached to emotional responses. What you value is largely based on how things make you feel. If you're programmed (by parents, society, biology, whatever) to ignore or suppress the way you feel, how are you to know what you value?

duty is important to me, but that is not the word i was looking for. i was trying to define a concept in my mind of 'doing the right thing when it is not expected of you'. i realized it fits into integrity, it is integrity with courage.

I think I know what you mean. Doing the right thing because you want to, because you can do no other whilst still living with yourself, rather than simply because it's expected or because you fear the consequences of not doing. Doing right for its own sake?

can you describe authenticity and sincerity? how are they different to you?
authenticity is very important to me too, it is one of the things i wrote down and considered. but i realized, for me, authenticity follows from Integrity and Action. if i act on my integrity, authenticity will naturally follow/be the result.

I'll give it a go, tomorrow... afternoon, probably, when I'm neither drunk, nor hungover (as I probably will be in the morning).

I actually have a custom made keyboard layout that's labelled "drunk", to make it easier for me to type whilst drunk in a way that makes me seem sober :D

Camille - you hit on a good one there with Accountability. That's got me thinking! But I think for me, that one's included in Integrity - to refuse to take responsibility and be accountable for your actions would go against the value of integrity. But saying that explicitly certainly helps to crystallise it somewhat! :)

Those who've talked about "being honest/true to yourself/others" - in light of the discussions above, how would you define that, exactly? What does that entail for you?
 

camille

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Whilst that's certainly true, I wouldn't underestimate the influence of the pressure on males to repress emotions, since values are very much attached to emotional responses. What you value is largely based on how things make you feel. If you're programmed (by parents, society, biology, whatever) to ignore or suppress the way you feel, how are you to know what you value?

I think maybe I'm seeing it differently because of the 'make everyone feel equal' parenting style we've been exposing our children to. In that situation, parents do what they can to make sure their children don't feel anything but happy or content all the time. All the giving in parents do, not giving their children responsibilities, playing sports and 'everyone's a winner'.

Our children, especially males, haven't been learning what emotions are more than they have been pushed to repress them.
 

proximo

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I think maybe I'm seeing it differently because of the 'make everyone feel equal' parenting style we've been exposing our children to. In that situation, parents do what they can to make sure their children don't feel anything but happy or content all the time. All the giving in parents do, not giving their children responsibilities, playing sports and 'everyone's a winner'.

Our children, especially males, haven't been learning what emotions are more than they have been pushed to repress them.

Ha, mine certainly have, but I'm not your average parent! :D

I've just realised that Discovery and Adventure are really big motivators for me...
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Mine are interrelated:

Broad perspective and balance

I think maybe I'm seeing it differently because of the 'make everyone feel equal' parenting style we've been exposing our children to. In that situation, parents do what they can to make sure their children don't feel anything but happy or content all the time. All the giving in parents do, not giving their children responsibilities, playing sports and 'everyone's a winner'.

Our children, especially males, haven't been learning what emotions are more than they have been pushed to repress them.
I agree. The bolded portion has a number of implicit problems. It implies that in order to be acceptable, one must be a winner, so if everyone isn't, then it is necessary to pretend. It implies false acceptance. It might be attempting to take a holistic approach, but with the kind of fixation on winning people have, I'm not sure it always accomplishes that. I prefer a holistic and honest approach that is truthful about varying skill levels, but also truthful about what it means to be a human being. I don't see how a person can fully embrace the value of self unless they can fully appreciate another person, including their abilities and effort.
 

Little Linguist

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Little Linguist - that's way too many to be just your CORE values! You need to do this part:



Anyway, to me those things just look like a list of virtues or qualities... I don't get what makes something a value... I mean you have to value it, obviously, but surely all of us value good things to some extent or other, and then have our own favourite good things? Does that mean "core values" is another way of saying "my favourite good things out of all the good things there are that I know of"?? :huh:

But anyway, I've thought of another one for me: authenticity.

Um, okay...well damn, that's hard. Let's see. Core values. No more than 5?! WTF?

Okay we'll give it a shot:

Balance (because with balance comes confidence, discipline, peace of mind, wisdom, self-reliance, and a good marriage)

Education and success (because with that, optimally you can engage your creativity, have knowledge, have financial security, have a good marriage and family, strive for growth, develop self-reliance, feel fulfillment, and have independence)

Integrity (because with that comes honesty, kindness, freedom for self and others, marriage, peace of mind, truth, authenticity, etc.)

Health (because without physical and mental health, it's all for shit anyway).
 

proximo

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Health (because without physical and mental health, it's all for shit anyway).

That one rang strange to me - oh, obviously I know it's a big must, generally. But I tend to see my health, body, lifespan, etc., as something I have to give for the causes my values prompt me to, and not something that's there for my own benefit. Odd, perhaps, but true :)

Of course that does mean I have to look after my health to a certain extent, so that I've got it *to* give. But it's not an end in itself. Maybe because my body and me have never been on very close terms...
 

Little Linguist

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That one rang strange to me - oh, obviously I know it's a big must, generally. But I tend to see my health, body, lifespan, etc., as something I have to give for the causes my values prompt me to, and not something that's there for my own benefit. Odd, perhaps, but true :)

Of course that does mean I have to look after my health to a certain extent, so that I've got it *to* give. But it's not an end in itself. Maybe because my body and me have never been on very close terms...

Sure...that's true...but I guess what I mean is that without health, nothing else matters. Then again if you have integrity and balance, health comes along with it...

So my values stand as follows:

1. balance
2. integrity
3. education and success

because everything follows from those three things (all the other values, I mean).
 

proximo

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Valuing success... wouldn't that have the danger of judging people harshly who don't manage to "succeed"?
 

Little Linguist

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Valuing success... wouldn't that have the danger of judging people harshly who don't manage to "succeed"?

Good question. No, I don't think so. It is more of a self-imposed measurement of my own abilities rather than judging others. Quite frankly, I figure other people either want to invest the time and effort and have natural abilities, or they do not; judging them is not going to change this fundamental fact. So why should I get upset over it?

However, I CAN influence my own behavior, objectives, and optimizing the potential *I* have, so the judgment is reserved only for me.
 

proximo

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Good question. No, I don't think so. It is more of a self-imposed measurement of my own abilities rather than judging others. Quite frankly, I figure other people either want to invest the time and effort and have natural abilities, or they do not; judging them is not going to change this fundamental fact. So why should I get upset over it?

However, I CAN influence my own behavior, objectives, and optimizing the potential *I* have, so the judgment is reserved only for me.

Okay, fair enough. Maybe I'm still not really understanding the point of what values are then, after all! :doh:

I kinda thought it was s'posed to be things you value and apply as criteria for judging/deciding everything - yourself, others, situations, choices, jobs - everything. Ideally, whilst still acknowledging that these are subjective judgements, and so not making them judgemental.
 

Little Linguist

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Okay, well, I've mulled this idea over in my brain, and I guess it depends....

It gives me a pit in my stomach to admit this fact, but yes, to a certain extent, it also influences the way I view other people. Not all the time, mind you. But it does to a certain extent. :blush:

In addition, it influences the way I view situations. Can I grow with this or not? If not, it's going in the trash can, and that includes jobs and career opportunities. That also includes relationships: do my friends have a positive or negative influence on me? Even family. I cut off anything that does not help me grow in either a tangible or intangible way. I do not tolerate people dragging me down. I'm very hard-nosed that way.
 

proximo

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Alright, well how does that tie in with other people's growth? I mean, is it a case of wanting others in your life to be beneficial for your growth, but you don't see yourself as having a part to play in the growth of other people? Or do you perhaps not believe that helping others to grow, even though they don't help you consciously in return, would actually help you grow anyway?

It seems to me that one of the greatest challenges of being a person that holds values and uses them to make decisions, is to consistently and equally apply them to everything and everyone, rather than sorta applying those to yourself that you find most agreeable to hold to, but not consciously holding others to them, and then conversely holding others to values that you don't live up to yourself. That's gotta be a Herculean task, for sure.
 

Little Linguist

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Alright, well how does that tie in with other people's growth? I mean, is it a case of wanting others in your life to be beneficial for your growth, but you don't see yourself as having a part to play in the growth of other people? Or do you perhaps not believe that helping others to grow, even though they don't help you consciously in return, would actually help you grow anyway?

It seems to me that one of the greatest challenge of being a person that holds values, is to consistently and equally apply them to everything and everyone, rather than sorta applying those to yourself that you find most agreeable to hold to, but not consciously holding others to them, and then conversely holding others to values that you don't live up to yourself. That's gotta be a Herculean task, for sure.

Well, let me give you a concrete example. Teaching. I want my pupils to succeed, and I put a lot of pressure on myself to provide the best possible lessons, support, guidance, etc. to help them be successful. However, it is very frustrating to me when I see students who do not care, do not get better, etc., to which I again put the blame on myself (I must not have done it right, delivered it properly, prepared enough, etc.)

Another example. If I notice someone is being abusive or manipulative in a relationship, I cut them off. If I notice someone is taking advantage of me, I will call them on it, expect a change, or leave. If I notice someone is deliberately trying to hold me down, I will leave the friendship. I just don't tolerate crap like that. Life is too short for that kind of nonsensical gibberish.
 

proximo

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I see. I tend to see myself as having a more long-term role in the lives of others; sticking with people through their challenging behaviour and finding ways through it is something I find provides a lot of opportunities for growth on both sides, more so than simply cutting them off. I think this stems from my valuing of Love and my belief in its transforming power.
 

Little Linguist

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I see. I tend to see myself as having a more long-term role in the lives of others; sticking with people through their challenging behaviour and finding ways through it is something I find provides a lot of opportunities for growth on both sides, more so than simply cutting them off. I think this stems from my valuing of Love and my belief in its transforming power.

You should not think that I just cut people off at a moment's notice. However, you cannot really change people. Either you awaken something they did not know they had, or they choose to remain ignorant. So you can only focus on those people who want to listen, since you can only help a minority of people anyway. Then, it's a good investment of time, effort, and energy.
 

proximo

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You should not think that I just cut people off at a moment's notice. However, you cannot really change people. Either you awaken something they did not know they had, or they choose to remain ignorant. So you can only focus on those people who want to listen, since you can only help a minority of people anyway. Then, it's a good investment of time, effort, and energy.

Well, I wasn't commenting on you or what you do, just saying how I see things differently, why and what effect that has on my choices. I'm using much of what people are saying in this thread to help shed light on attitudes I wasn't consciously aware I had, to figure out what my values are.

I agree that you can't change people, but you can help to motivate them to change themselves through understanding. Often it takes a very long time, but that's okay with me. I guess I'm just naturally quite patient and forgiving - it's fine if other people are not, I don't judge them for that. Maybe it's easier for me to be that way as I don't have other things demanding on my emotional energy within the home as many other people do, so I'm able to give more of it to more people outside of the home. Also, my own emotional state isn't of very great importance to me - probably also possible because I'm usually not even aware of it. I can understand how somebody who's more in tune with their emotions might find it harder to expose themselves longterm to situations that produce negative feelings, and so their own emotional state would be of more concern to them than mine is to me. Maybe, I dunno. I'm just musing :)
 
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