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On Social Anxiety

run

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I just got back from a doctor of sorts and this is what she said (basically):

Modern psychology begins with the premise that something is wrong with you. This is never true.

If you look up your butthole, all you're gonna see is crap. If you look at your problems, all you're gonna see is problems. This negative attitude only makes the problem worse.

I have social anxiety social and spiritual challenges. I just did something I never have done before tonight. I walked into a bar. And I have a feeling of pride in myself that I've never had before. Because I dropped that faulty premise.

But I have this question: This doctor proposed this: People will judge you, reject you, if you judge and reject yourself. They won't forgive you if you forgive yourself.

This doesn't make it right to reject people. I know some awkward, exhausting people who I don't reject. I put a lot into my choices of how I interact with people. So, if you go around not forgiving yourself, and you find that someone doesn't forgive you (for your social shortcomings), wouldn't that be a good test to see if people are worth your time? If so, why does this hurt so much for the person with social anxiety?
 

krunchtime

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Because you need to be accepted more than people need to accept you? Just de-link it from the issues thing. People with no social anxiety might have personal problems that they just never disclose to anyone. People can be surrounded by a group of friends and feel lonely and empty at the same time. Modern psychology allows you to understand and forgive yourself. It might even allow you to understand and forgive others. Sounds like a good way to start.
 

Trefle

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Because social anxiety is rooted in another problems, too?

I did have the symptoms of social anxiety, and back then all I felt was, "oh no, they hate me. I am worthless."

Probably something around that. Or a more..forgiving variant, "They hate me. Am I doing something wrong? Can't I be kinder/more considerate/more [insert any trait here]" Sometimes it goes off against my better judgement and my common sense (like "Maybe I should be this." "WAIT A MOMENT, WHAT DID I JUST THOUGHT OF?" "But then--!")

Sometimes it's also the bad reasoning that you got to get on with EVERYONE. One could, but it obviously costs a lot more, don't you think?

I still try to make myself better. I still do. But to accept one's flaws and to choose people worth one's time is still necessary.

my two cents. >_<;
 

Quinlan

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Whereas evolutionary psychology starts with the premise that there is something right with you.
 

Saslou

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Firstly .. Congratulations for doing something benign and foreign .. You deserved that drink ;)

When you appreciate yourself and what you are able to offer the world with refreshed eyes, it is ironic that the people who truly care about your interests will want exactly the same for you. This is why some people don't want their partners/friends to change for the better. It screws up their warped perception of how you should behave. Better the devil you know.

It is not so much that you reject people/friends etc, i think it is more you keep around those who are able to enhance what is deep inside you .. In all honesty, who likes energy vampires? *shudders*

Forgiveness - Soften your heart with respect to this situation, and all the people involved, including yourself .. This is my fridge magnet on compassion .. I think it says alot.

I can't say anything regarding the social anxiety other than do you have friends who are out there or very extroverted? I find the energy of the people i am around has a big influence on my being. If the group is quiet and shy, i am either over the top playful or incredibly quiet myself (which i don't like). If you could interact with your friends on a regular basis and open yourself up to new opportunities maybe, possibly that could benefit you and help with your situation.

Or maybe i am talking shit .. I'll let you decide ;)
Lol

EDIT - Oh shit .. I used the 'In all honesty' line .. :(
 

Haight

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That doctor seems like a quack. My advice is to seek a second opinion. And . . . get on meds. All the kids are doing it!
 

run

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That doctor seems like a quack. My advice is to seek a second opinion. And . . . get on meds. All the kids are doing it!

Did you read the part about how it worked?
 

speculative

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So, if you go around not forgiving yourself, and you find that someone doesn't forgive you (for your social shortcomings), wouldn't that be a good test to see if people are worth your time? If so, why does this hurt so much for the person with social anxiety?

I'm not sure I'm clear on what you're saying here. Are you saying that you should walk around being down on yourself, and if while doing so other people are down on you too, that should be cause to judge them? What other course of action should they take: helping you, avoiding you, etc.? Or, are you saying that people should not judge in any instance, so if you make it harded for them not to judge you, but this still manage not to, that they are worth your time... This seems like a very "4" thing, withdrawing to see if you can attrack a rescuer.

So, I would say that would not be a good test to see if people are worth your time, as it would only harm you in your efforts to grow if you play this role to see how people react.

Sounds like you visited an M.D.o.S. What you want is an M.D. :D However, it is good advice not to judge yourself too harshly. (This is also a type 4 growth thing...)
 

run

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I'm not sure I'm clear on what you're saying here. Are you saying that you should walk around being down on yourself, and if while doing so other people are down on you too, that should be cause to judge them? What other course of action should they take: helping you, avoiding you, etc.? Or, are you saying that people should not judge in any instance, so if you make it harded for them not to judge you, but this still manage not to, that they are worth your time... This seems like a very "4" thing, withdrawing to see if you can attrack a rescuer.

So, I would say that would not be a good test to see if people are worth your time, as it would only harm you in your efforts to grow if you play this role to see how people react.

Closer to the second one. I don't do it on purpose though. Its just a habit and I don't see anything necessarily wrong with it in an ideal sense. I think of it this way:

I'm hard on myself. I beat myself up, I don't believe in myself, etc.
This will attract people worth my time.

I'm not hard on myself. I don't beat myself, I believe in myself, etc.
This will attract people worth my time, plus those who aren't.

edit: I won't know the difference.
 

proximo

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Hmm... from my experience of being socially anxious, if I look at it closely and compare it to times when I've *not* felt anxious in the company of others, there seems a clear pattern.

I'm anxious when I'm thinking about myself and worrying about myself. I'm not, when I'm focusing mainly on the external environment around me and the people in it. Partly because I can't do both at the same time, so I can't worry and obsess over what image or impression I'm making at the same time as making a conscious effort to observe the mental and emotional states of others. And partly because once I do make that effort, I realise that my fears were unfounded, largely.

So there's my advice on losing the social anxiety. If you wait 'til you've totally accepted yourself, it'll be a long time before you get out there. Part of the problem is that you're too focused on yourself, to begin with. So I'd say the first step is to STOP thinking about yourself, and focus on the world around you instead.
 

Synapse

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for goodness sakes just stop smoking if you are, drinking caffeine and sugar. the end!
oh and do realise this is an adrenal related issue which aptly ties in with thyroid health.
do look at this matrix for further clarification.

11. I find that most cases of anxiety are due to adrenal causes. The typical condition is not severe enough to be picked up with standard test which are designed only to pick up the most severe adrenal fatigue. As the individual is heading in that direction, the standard blood tests will not pick up this transition but the symptoms become quite noticeable with anxiety, cold hands or cold intolerance, poor and/or un-refreshing sleep heading the list of probable symptoms.

and remember magnesium, zinc and selenium help to detox your bodies toxins, without them you suffer...badly. imagine then that alcohol and fluoride a neurotoxin in tap water do a lovely job of washing away these minerals and hello social anxiety, that's without the help of thimersol and other sources of mercury in fish and heavy metals affecting the body adversely, and meds with fluoride in them...

you stress and you add to exhausting your adrenal reserves. society eats and drinks sugar like we're made out of plastic...

Just my bobs worth.
 

Haight

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Did you read the part about how it worked?
"Worked" is merely a temporary belief that you happen to hold currently. I can tell from reading the OP, and from the very purpose of this thread, that it didn't work.

So when you come to that realization . . . take my advice.
 

krunchtime

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Closer to the second one. I don't do it on purpose though. Its just a habit and I don't see anything necessarily wrong with it in an ideal sense. I think of it this way:

I'm hard on myself. I beat myself up, I don't believe in myself, etc.
This will attract people worth my time.

I'm not hard on myself. I don't beat myself, I believe in myself, etc.
This will attract people worth my time, plus those who aren't.

edit: I won't know the difference.

I'd like to offer an optional perspective on that.

If you are hard on yourself, beat yourself up, you will lack self-esteem and assertiveness. This might attract people who either sympathise with you or believe that you are a doormat. Both types will reinforce your current worldview and drive you deeper into the cycle of anxiety.

If you are not hard on yourself, don't beat yourself up, you will radiate confidence and assertiveness. This might attract all types of people, including people you don't particularly click with. But this will also open up your range of options and you are entitled to choose.

One gives power away, the other empowers you.

Forgiveness can be a form of empowerment if it allows you to understand and accept a wider range of people.
 

prplchknz

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for goodness sakes just stop smoking if you are, drinking caffeine and sugar. the end!
oh and do realise this is an adrenal related issue which aptly ties in with thyroid health.
do look at this matrix for further clarification.


and remember magnesium, zinc and selenium help to detox your bodies toxins, without them you suffer...badly. imagine then that alcohol and fluoride a neurotoxin in tap water do a lovely job of washing away these minerals and hello social anxiety, that's without the help of thimersol and other sources of mercury in fish and heavy metals affecting the body adversely, and meds with fluoride in them...

you stress and you add to exhausting your adrenal reserves. society eats and drinks sugar like we're made out of plastic...

Just my bobs worth.

:doh: way to be ignorant, if that were true my anxiety would not have begun in my childhood. And I did not eat a ton of sugar as a kid either we were't allowed sugary cereal and sweets were a treat once in awhile.
Hmm... from my experience of being socially anxious, if I look at it closely and compare it to times when I've *not* felt anxious in the company of others, there seems a clear pattern.

I'm anxious when I'm thinking about myself and worrying about myself. I'm not, when I'm focusing mainly on the external environment around me and the people in it. Partly because I can't do both at the same time, so I can't worry and obsess over what image or impression I'm making at the same time as making a conscious effort to observe the mental and emotional states of others. And partly because once I do make that effort, I realise that my fears were unfounded, largely.

So there's my advice on losing the social anxiety. If you wait 'til you've totally accepted yourself, it'll be a long time before you get out there. Part of the problem is that you're too focused on yourself, to begin with. So I'd say the first step is to STOP thinking about yourself, and focus on the world around you instead.

yeah when focus on the world around me i get more anxious.
 

proximo

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yeah when focus on the world around me i get more anxious.

No, I mean focus on it, and *keep* focused on it, and interact with it directly. Not focus on it, and then relate what you see back to yourself, and get tied up in knots about it :)

I think it's pretty difficult for most introverts to really do this, because it's their ingrained habit to always bring everything back to themselves. That is, you might look and observe, but you then straight away, instinctively, relate it to yourself and interpret it in that way. The extravert would be less likely to do this - they'd more instinctively relate it to other things in the external environment, and not to themselves.

For example: you see a person approaching you at a wedding reception, with a glass in their hand. They appear to want to talk with you. The introvert's reaction would more likely be to then relate that information back to themselves and say, internally, "what should I do? what do they want of me? what do I think of this person? what's my impression? how might I fail to acquit myself well in this situation? what do I need to do?"

The extravert is more likely to see them and say to themselves, "Ah, I see they want to talk with me. Their glass is almost empty. Let's go up to the bar and get refills". Or something like that. And beyond that, they don't really say much to themselves - activity within their own head is mostly suspended, while they interact directly with the external stimuli. In that situation, there's little opportunity for self-doubt to enter the equation.
 

Saslou

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I'd like to offer an optional perspective on that.

If you are hard on yourself, beat yourself up, you will lack self-esteem and assertiveness. This might attract people who either sympathise with you or believe that you are a doormat. Both types will reinforce your current worldview and drive you deeper into the cycle of anxiety.

Interesting choice of words .. So which is it? Might or will!!!

People who have someone's best interests at heart do so as a selfless act.

If i sympathise/empathise with a situation brought to my attention, as a friend i will help you to the best of my ability. If that means you become a better person and we are no longer have as much in common .. Then i bid you farewell and wish you the best of luck in your future .. What kind of friend would want to hold someone back? :huh:

Hmmmm.
 

run

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No, I mean focus on it, and *keep* focused on it, and interact with it directly. Not focus on it, and then relate what you see back to yourself, and get tied up in knots about it :)

I think it's pretty difficult for most introverts to really do this, because it's their ingrained habit to always bring everything back to themselves.

Can't we just stop? Even if we can, does it have to be an encumbrance on our social lives? Are we stuck?
 

proximo

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Can't we just stop? Even if we can, does it have to be an encumbrance on our social lives? Are we stuck?

Sure you can, bud - you can do anything you like. But start from a realistic expectation of how hard it's gonna be, and give yourself a reasonable time frame :)

Extraverts can also get social anxiety even though they focus externally. Especially ExxP's, who are in uber-perceiving mode most of the time, and therefore likely to take in EVERYTHING of their surroundings... sometimes you spot clues of hostility, distrust or deception towards you that you wish you hadn't noticed at times and which the introvert, being too preoccupied with how uncomfortable or unsure they felt, might not have picked up. And that can make you just as apprehensive, and/or defensive. So it's six of one...

I'm not helping, am I? :blush:
 

Polaris

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The hardest thing about overcoming social anxiety is to simply want to do it. If you want to overcome your fears badly enough, you'll go out in public, regardless of how frightened it makes you, and slowly master yourself. It's almost inevitable. The problem is that most people don't have the will to get outside their comfort zone--they prefer to be lonely, because their loneliness is their refuge just as much as it is their prison. I understand that, because that's where I am, and the one thing that stops me from overcoming my problem is the simple fact that I don't want to. I don't think I'm worth it on one level, and on another level, I'm more comfortable having no friends. That's my choice, and I'll have to take the consequences for it.
 
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