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Is psychological hedonism true?

Psychologically, are we all hedonists?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 75.0%
  • No

    Votes: 4 25.0%

  • Total voters
    16

ajblaise

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Psychological hedonism is the theory that all human choice is motivated by a desire for pleasure (or an aversion to pain).

Do you think this is a correct description of how humans work?

And if psychological hedonism is true, should we also accept ethical hedonism? (Ethical hedonism is the view that happiness or pleasure is the ultimate good)
 

lowtech redneck

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Psychological hedonism is the theory that all human choice is motivated by a desire for pleasure (or an aversion to pain).

Do you think this is a correct description of how humans work?

And if psychological hedonism is true, should we also accept ethical hedonism? (Ethical hedonism is the view that happiness or pleasure is the ultimate good)

Its kind of like the question of free will; most people hope there is something more than what basic scientific theory allows. I would posit, however, that more utility can be had (both individually and on the societal level) if people are habituated to derive pleasure through thoughts and actions (altruism, work ethic, etc.) that a self-conscious embrace of ethical hedonism would make extremely difficult, if not impossible, to maintain. Even a self-conscious embrace of utilitarianism (what may be considered an enlightened form of ethical hedonism) can make such habituation difficult, leading most-often to short-sighted rationalizations (John Stuart Mill addresses these points in his writings, and many philosophers and/or political scientists consider his innovations to be deviations from true utilitarianism).

Most of my philosophical musings end in irony. :dry:
 

INTP

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definetly. people who say that it isnt just dont realize it. making others happy is really making yourself happy by reflecting happiness from others to yourself.
 
P

Phantonym

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Yes, I can agree with both forms of hedonism. Happiness, gratification is the ultimate goal behind every action. However, there is also a distinction whether the intentional outcome is indeed pleasure for themselves and everybody around them or the pursuit for pleasure includes solely the individual in question without any regard to others around them. People find pleasure in doing things that harm others as well.
 

Oaky

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I think Pleasure =/= Happiness.
If someone suffers to help someone else it wouldn't really count as giving in to your desires whereas one may have the desire not to help someone but help them out of sheer kindness.
 

lowtech redneck

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People find pleasure in doing things that harm others as well.

That tendency has a specific term attached to it; the "Pleasures of Malevolence" :devil: I suspect standard utilitarianism offers insufficient psychological motivation for most people to repress that aspect of themselves, even if they intellectually realize that its in their long-term best interests, unless negative social sanction is the consequence. Even then, shaming without the element of internalized guilt just isn't a very effective deterrent for many people.
 

lowtech redneck

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I think Pleasure =/= Happiness.
If someone suffers to help someone else it wouldn't really count as giving in to your desires whereas one may have the desire not to help someone but help them out of sheer kindness.

It can easily be argued that "kindness" is an aspect of ethical hedonism; people are habituated to derive self-satisfaction (i.e. pleasure) through altruism, and to feel crippling guilt (i.e. pain) through the selfish neglect of other's in need. Again, I don't think embracing ethical hedonism facilitates this, but the philosophical paradigm can easily explain it.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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And if psychological hedonism is true, should we also accept ethical hedonism? (Ethical hedonism is the view that happiness or pleasure is the ultimate good)
This calls into question the issue of short-term vs. long-term thinking. Hedonism is often associated with short-term thinking, of choosing momentary pleasures. Making plans to create stable, enduring happy outcomes for self and others often results in different sorts of choices. Long-term hedonistic thinking is a fair description of what I attempt in life.
 

ajblaise

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Its kind of like the question of free will; most people hope there is something more than what basic scientific theory allows. I would posit, however, that more utility can be had (both individually and on the societal level) if people are habituated to derive pleasure through thoughts and actions (altruism, work ethic, etc.) that a self-conscious embrace of ethical hedonism would make extremely difficult, if not impossible, to maintain. Even a self-conscious embrace of utilitarianism (what may be considered an enlightened form of ethical hedonism) can make such habituation difficult, leading most-often to short-sighted rationalizations (John Stuart Mill addresses these points in his writings, and many philosophers and/or political scientists consider his innovations to be deviations from true utilitarianism).

Most of my philosophical musings end in irony. :dry:

I can see how ethical hedonism could promote reckless self-indulgence, but how so with utilitarianism and "the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people"? Especially on a societal and political level, utilitarian ethical reasoning seems to have occurred all the time throughout history and has been behind much of the progression of civilization.

This calls into question the issue of short-term vs. long-term thinking. Hedonism is often associated with short-term thinking, of choosing momentary pleasures. Making plans to create stable, enduring happy outcomes for self and others often results in different sorts of choices. Long-term hedonistic thinking is a fair description of what I attempt in life.

Yeah that's what I'm trying to strive for as well. It should be called smart hedonism.
 

lowtech redneck

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I can see how ethical hedonism could promote reckless self-indulgence, but how so with utilitarianism and "the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people"? Especially on a societal and political level, utilitarian ethical reasoning seems to have occurred all the time throughout history and has been behind much of the progression of civilization.

Its not that utilitarianism is bad (quite the opposite-I personally find Jeremy Bentham to be an admirable figure, and the unorthodox John Stuart Mill is one of my heroes), its just that (for most people) its insufficient as a motivator and moral compass for the purposes of bringing about its ostensible societal goals, largely because its too sterile and nihilistic for most people's comfort. Furthermore, standard utilitarianism is too undefined (how do you measure utility for the purposes of bringing the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people, what standards do you employ to determine which forms of utility takes precedence when conflicts arise,etc.), thereby leading to much of the same short-sighted rationalizations in practice as individualized ethical hedonism.
 

kiddykat

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I think in general, animal behavior does have a tendency to gravitate towards pleasure rather than pain. Although, some animals (including humans) probably view pain as pleasure (masochists). It depends on our socialization process- whatever we find rewarding.

In terms of ethical hedonism? As long as we respect other people's rights, then I think we're in good hands. Btw, ethical hedonism can also include wishing happiness for others as well, right?
 

Athenian200

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Psychological hedonism is the theory that all human choice is motivated by a desire for pleasure (or an aversion to pain).

Do you think this is a correct description of how humans work?

And if psychological hedonism is true, should we also accept ethical hedonism? (Ethical hedonism is the view that happiness or pleasure is the ultimate good)

Well, emotionally, yes.

But logic can influence one's perception of which choices will lead to pleasure/pain. For instance, you may feel emotionally that killing someone who pissed you off would feel good. But logic would alter your perception by telling you:

1. The guy is stronger than you, and would probably kill you instead.
2. You'd get punished for it by the justice system.
3. Even if you won, it only make you look like an unforgiving jerk to other people.

Suddenly, you see that forgiving them leads to pleasure and killing them leads to pain.
 

Synarch

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Psychological hedonism is the theory that all human choice is motivated by a desire for pleasure (or an aversion to pain).

Do you think this is a correct description of how humans work?

And if psychological hedonism is true, should we also accept ethical hedonism? (Ethical hedonism is the view that happiness or pleasure is the ultimate good)

It is correct in the sense that we do the things we want to do. For whatever reason. Not exactly groundbreaking as an idea, though. By definition, things we want are pleasurable, things we do not want are painful.

The problem with ethical hedonism is that it doesn't recognize the concept of a higher good, ie. one that supercedes the desires of any one individual.
 
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