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Why do people care about truth so much?

GHC

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Oct 3, 2009
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23
MBTI Type
INFP
For me like someone else said I value truth cause it is reality, it is the only way for me to know that I am not being manipulated, deceived or that I am fooling myself to see things better than they are ( we are speaking about different truths here) or imposing my belief unfairly on other people, Knowing the truth I have a better perspective about things and I can use that knowledge to help myself and others in a healthy way.

Sometimes when being Truthful you might end up being seeing as tactless or blunt though when you aren't doing to harm anybody or to impose the way you see things in others your honesty would be appreciated.(Most of the time, at least)

That said, there are many Jerks that can get purposely nasty with words and claim after that they were only being "truthful" or "honest" while in reality they were just being obnoxious and nasty, to this kind of people just tell them to FUCK OFF or just ignored them. This are usually the most dishonest and rude you can find.

I suck with punctuations I know
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
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Jan 14, 2009
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1,154
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Oh yeah, and socionics is voodoo, and for that reason people won't agree with you.

voodoo1.jpg
 

Gewitter27

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651
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INTP
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Anybody can believe what they want to believe, they'll just be wrong. One should point out their error. If they do not desist from there, then you must respect their inherent idiocy and move on.
 

LotsOfHeart

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I mean, it seems like most people have a devotion to their version of it, and value this whole thing about being "honest," regardless of whether anyone is interested in what they have to say. Generally speaking, I find people who overtly value "truth" to be pointlessly tactless and crude. They can also be rather thick, unable to discern subtlety, and unwilling to present themselves in a positive light in order to help them succeed.

It can be rather frustrating to have to put up with a bunch of blunt, self-assured "truth-tellers" who don't have the least bit of respect for my willingness to accommodate others, and think I'm worthless because I don't go around trying to inflict my views on everyone I meet.

What I have to question, though, is whether "truth" is really as desirable as people make it out to be. I mean, in some cases, couldn't it be detrimental to our well-being, comfort, ability to function day-to-day, or relationships with other people? It seems to me that people today often put truth ahead of people's humanity, and believe that the truth speaks for itself, and justifies itself, unable to consider the idea that truth isn't warranted in every context of human affairs.

I know how you feel. As a fellow INFJ, I have tremendous issues with certain accepted behaviors or rules within my community and the world in general. In fact, sometimes I can't believe certain rules and codes of behavior are accepted at all. A better option seems readily visible and doable to me, but others often cannot or do not want to see it.

Personally, I have not had your experience quite so much. Actually, I've had issues with people not being upfront enough at times. Not that they were liars, they just lived very much in the external world, so they weren't able to see what was really going on inside of other people or even inside themselves. Thus, they came across as pretty "out of touch" to me because even direct communication was too deep for them. But I digress... (sorry about that)

Back to your situation, I think you might be overestimating the honesty of the people you've mentioned, ironically. I somehow doubt they're all telling the truth about everything all of the time. It just doesn't seem likely or even really possible to me. Make no mistake, honesty IS important. It's important that your significant other can count on you to be faithful, it's important that people can trust you when you tell them something that happened if it's necessary to and it's important that you don't cheat or steal (unless you absolutely had to as a last resort to put food on your table....that's different).

As important as honesty is, though, if everyone only told the truth all of the time, I think the world would be a pretty messed up place. When you're on a job interview, dating someone or just seeing someone on the street who's your friend, it's usually not appropriate to tell them EVERYTHING. When you make a resume`, you only put down the GOOD things you did. If you put down the bad things, you would be compromising yourself. Technically, it's not completely honest to only write the good things you've done, but everyone else is going to be doing that, and you want to put yourself in the best light possible. Some very honest individuals may view that as lying, but it's really an attempt to grease the wheels of opportunity and social interaction.

When you're on a date, are you going to tell them some embarrassing story from your day on the first date? It would be inappropriate and not helpful towards breaking the ice, which is really what you want to be doing in that situation. You try to look your best and put yourself in the best possible light, again, because you want to get to know the person, and ironically, putting yourself in the best light makes them want to get to know you better.

When you're seeing a friend on the street and you feel horrible about something personal in your life, you probably aren't going to want to go and tell them about it when they say, "How are you doing?" It's again, you guessed it: inappropriate.

Children tell all, but adults don't have to. If something is your business and you don't feel like sharing it, it's your right to keep it to yourself and no one has to know. Keep in mind that when you've cheated someone or generally done something wrong that hurts people, it's probably best to own up to it, but if it's just something that's your business and doesn't hurt anyone not to know it, then by all means feel free to keep it to yourself. Everyone has secrets anyway. There isn't a (sane) person on this Earth who doesn't have at least one thing they probably don't want you to know about them.

My point is, I guess, that tact, like intuition, is a personality skill which is developed over time. Knowing when or when not to share something is an all-too important aspect of life in this world. Usually, the more mature you get, the better you become at choosing when or when not to express something. If you never learn to hold back, you will definitely rub people the wrong way, but if you keep everything inside, you're just cut off from the rest of the world. So there has to be a happy medium, and that's what you want to strive for.
 

sLiPpY

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In reference to the OP, I'm typically suspicious of snake oil salesmen peddling "truth."

America has become a society of liars. We see it in politics, we see it in business, we see it in nearly all of our societal institutions.
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
The "Truth" you speak of is bound to come out sooner or later.

If not addressed when things are negative this will lead to more drastic consequence. If I know what I am working with I can assess it correctly. After all knowledge is power.

This seems to be the dynamic.....I want to know when truth is good, but not negative.
 

sLiPpY

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The only constant in life is the breath. Everything else is negotiable.
 

NewEra

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Dec 21, 2008
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I mean, it seems like most people have a devotion to their version of it, and value this whole thing about being "honest," regardless of whether anyone is interested in what they have to say. Generally speaking, I find people who overtly value "truth" to be pointlessly tactless and crude. They can also be rather thick, unable to discern subtlety, and unwilling to present themselves in a positive light in order to help them succeed.

It can be rather frustrating to have to put up with a bunch of blunt, self-assured "truth-tellers" who don't have the least bit of respect for my willingness to accommodate others, and think I'm worthless because I don't go around trying to inflict my views on everyone I meet.

What I have to question, though, is whether "truth" is really as desirable as people make it out to be. I mean, in some cases, couldn't it be detrimental to our well-being, comfort, ability to function day-to-day, or relationships with other people? It seems to me that people today often put truth ahead of people's humanity, and believe that the truth speaks for itself, and justifies itself, unable to consider the idea that truth isn't warranted in every context of human affairs.

Well, there's a fine line between "honesty" and "indiscretion". It's a valued characteristic to be "honest" but obviously not "indiscreet". An indiscreet person is usually one who talks too much.
 

Saslou

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Feb 1, 2009
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4,910
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Well, there's a fine line between "honesty" and "indiscretion". It's a valued characteristic to be "honest" but obviously not "indiscreet". An indiscreet person is usually one who talks too much.


I disagree there. I can talk for England, but I'll keep your and everyone else's secrets. If i am asking a question it is because i am looking for guidance as i am stuck in a rut but i would still never tell a lie. Granted i could of been more discreet in my questions when i first came here, but how do you get an proper answer if you are not aware of all the facts to start with. :)


But saying that .. What is a lie or the truth? People can convince themselves that their lies are truth and i witnessed it quite recently. Not very pleasant.

Personally i prefer the truth from people .. Of course it can be worded in a way that is not going to rip someones core to shreds. There is no need to be nasty about it.
 

INTJMom

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I mean, it seems like most people have a devotion to their version of it, and value this whole thing about being "honest," regardless of whether anyone is interested in what they have to say. Generally speaking, I find people who overtly value "truth" to be pointlessly tactless and crude. They can also be rather thick, unable to discern subtlety, and unwilling to present themselves in a positive light in order to help them succeed.

It can be rather frustrating to have to put up with a bunch of blunt, self-assured "truth-tellers" who don't have the least bit of respect for my willingness to accommodate others, and think I'm worthless because I don't go around trying to inflict my views on everyone I meet.

What I have to question, though, is whether "truth" is really as desirable as people make it out to be. I mean, in some cases, couldn't it be detrimental to our well-being, comfort, ability to function day-to-day, or relationships with other people? It seems to me that people today often put truth ahead of people's humanity, and believe that the truth speaks for itself, and justifies itself, unable to consider the idea that truth isn't warranted in every context of human affairs.
It would be more helpful if you were more specific in describing the exact circumstances that you're talking about.
Your comments are too general.
I don't know any people who behave that way.

If you belong to a group of people - in real life -
in which more than one person behaves that way,
I recommend you quit that group.

It may be that several people HERE in this forum are like that,
but that's what the Ignore List is for.

And yes... truth is desirable.
Honesty is valuable.
As a matter of fact, throughout my life, my one character trait that has received the most commendation from other people is my honesty.
However, I will say that I have learned to be discerning with my honesty and not just whack people over the head with it.

"You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar."

If you have one or two friends who would benefit from that saying,
perhaps you could write it in a card and give it to them.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
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And yes... truth is desirable.
Honesty is valuable.
As a matter of fact, throughout my life, my one character trait that has received the most commendation from other people is my honesty.

All you're doing is, again, asserting that it's valuable. It seems like all anyone can do is point to the idea that it's valuable because they value it.

People on the whole seem to have very poor explanations as to why they value things like truth and dislike things like hypocrisy. They rail about it like it's so clearly wrong, but when asked to explain why those things are meaningful, they can't come up with anything.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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Apr 13, 2009
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I try not to offer unsolicited truth.

I also try to stay out of RL convo's wherein my brand of ruthless honesty wouldn't be appreciated.

Lastly, I realize that there are only a very few circumstances where that kind of honesty is appropriate.

The only problem I have, is when people apply social wishy-washyness to serious discussions.
 

Kra

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Jun 24, 2009
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All you're doing is, again, asserting that it's valuable. It seems like all anyone can do is point to the idea that it's valuable because they value it.

For the sake of clarity, let "truth" be defined as simply "the most functional and efficient standpoint, theoretically possible."

Truth is more beneficial than untruths if there is a readily apparent problem present. Truth is valuable in this situation mostly because it is similar to sight. If one is running blind, they may reach their intended destination, but it's more likely that they will go the wrong way, trip, or collide on their way. Truth, or sight in this case, allows you to see to some degree where you're headed, thus reducing the chance of mishaps. In this case, the closer one is to the "truth," the better odds they have of achieving their objective.

On the other hand, if there's no readily apparent problem, the truth is less useful.

In regards to "truth-seekers" being rude, untactful, etc. I don't see any real need for these behaviors to obtain "truth." I think that's a case of correlation =/= causation.
 
S

Sniffles

Guest
It's certainly true that those who claim to have the truth can be rather rude, but it's an error of the greatest kind to move in the opposite extreme and try to claim that the concept of truth itself has no merit or value. One should keep in mind that truth should be asserted with great humility, and that truth is best demonstrated through persuation not coercion or rudeness.

John Henry Newman made the wonderful point that tolerance means engaging differences with respect and civility, not avoiding them as if they made no difference.
 

Taizic

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Aug 8, 2009
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Well they do have that saying "The truth will set you free." I'm sure many people have already said things similar to this, but I'll shoot anyway.

It's like the boy who cried wolf. Caught lying, no one will trust you anymore. Get yourself caught in one, (for some) the guilt builds up. Then if you continuing lying, you've put yourself in a huge mess, in which if you got caught, or told someone, you're gonna lose your friends who trusted in you.

So...to a good degree (a rather large degree), people care about the truth because it proves the trustworthiness of a person. That....and the truth is better than a lie that can end up hurting someone anyway. Might as well get a truth out of the way, right?
 

simulatedworld

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What I have to question, though, is whether "truth" is really as desirable as people make it out to be. I mean, in some cases, couldn't it be detrimental to our well-being, comfort, ability to function day-to-day, or relationships with other people? It seems to me that people today often put truth ahead of people's humanity, and believe that the truth speaks for itself, and justifies itself, unable to consider the idea that truth isn't warranted in every context of human affairs.

Shhhh, don't tell the INTPs!
 

sculpting

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Jan 28, 2009
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I mean, it seems like most people have a devotion to their version of it, and value this whole thing about being "honest," regardless of whether anyone is interested in what they have to say. Generally speaking, I find people who overtly value "truth" to be pointlessly tactless and crude. They can also be rather thick, unable to discern subtlety, and unwilling to present themselves in a positive light in order to help them succeed.

It can be rather frustrating to have to put up with a bunch of blunt, self-assured "truth-tellers" who don't have the least bit of respect for my willingness to accommodate others, and think I'm worthless because I don't go around trying to inflict my views on everyone I meet.

What I have to question, though, is whether "truth" is really as desirable as people make it out to be. I mean, in some cases, couldn't it be detrimental to our well-being, comfort, ability to function day-to-day, or relationships with other people? It seems to me that people today often put truth ahead of people's humanity, and believe that the truth speaks for itself, and justifies itself, unable to consider the idea that truth isn't warranted in every context of human affairs.

Perhaps in a generic social group much of what you say holds up. What is the goal? Social coordination in order to procreate the species.

However in a corporation all of the above can become nightmarish. I do not need nice, I need efficient and blunt. I need long term vision that the human element is important, however I need innovation and harsh critique of shitty ideas. Things must be painful at times in order to progress. Our ISFJs our utterly painful. Any critique of what they do is taken as personal critique. We have lost millions as a result of nonusability of our website do to one ISFJ for instance.

I think you will find even fluffy ENFPs prefer truth and open honesty, even if painful to pretend niceness.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
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because knowledge what we define as true as a whole has higher survival value than what we define as false, and ability to lead others away from the 'true' and promote oneself via lying offers an additional possibility of 1)boosting one's status relative to others 2)feeding information to ppl that will statistically lead them to have access to a lower % of ressources/ lower their chances to reproduce.

we're the children of thousands of generations of liers who could tell when they were lied to, or at least some sort of balance of those two parameters. (relative to the average pop ofc)
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
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Dec 3, 2008
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4,310
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INTJ
"Blah Blah Blah [something important]"
"My God! Is that true?!"
"Pshaw, no. I made it up."
"What? How could you say that?"
"I'm not sure."
"It's not true?"
"No, it's true."
"What?"
"Just messing with ya."
"Wait, messing now, or before?"
"You truthers are so crass!"


Truth. It only makes things worse.
 
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