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American Culture

Athenian200

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What I'd give to not be expected to respond positively to a stranger attempting to talk with me.

There's a place where they expect you to respond positively to strangers talking to you?

Where is this? AFAIK, people usually freak out when strangers attempt to talk to them. I figured that was just human nature...
 

Gewitter27

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Apparently I live in someplace where introversion is a trait that is 'Bad'.

I live in a suburb of Chicago. You are expected to give a positive reaction to someone you don't know talking to you.
 

Athenian200

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Apparently I live in someplace where introversion is a trait that is 'Bad'.

I live in a suburb of Chicago. You are expected to give a positive reaction to someone you don't know talking to you.

Well, I live in Dallas...

And maybe it's just my neighborhood, but people who talk to people they don't know are often considered creepy (It might have something to do with having had the highest crime rate for 10 years). It's like an unwritten rule. I mean, not if they ask for the time or directions or something, but if they try to strike up a conversation, it's seen as suspicious or creepy. Probably because a lot of the people here who do so actually are suspicious or creepy, but now people make that assumption... which makes it very hard to extend your social network.

Honestly, I'd say that expectation is a lot more fair to people who don't already have connections or acquaintances. It probably seems like a nuisance to someone who has all the connections to people that they need already, but imagine what it would be like if people were always freaked out by strangers, and you had NO easy way of forming connections with the people around you? It would be such that you were essentially limited to interacting with family, and people who were paid to interact with you.

Complaining about such an expectation seems rather short-sighted, honestly.
 

wildcat

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The painters of America are landscape painters.
America is a land of peasants.
Europe is bourgeoisie = urban.
A farm is not a garden.

Urban America does not extend beyond the mouth of Hudson River.

Rhineland is a garden of Eden.
Rhinish is a unique dialect in Germany.
The sound is melodic, clipped, soft spoken.
Outside of the Rhine, only in New York you hear the sound of the Rhine.

Eventually, Yiddish gave way to English in NYC.
The sound of Yiddish did not.

The town surrounds the garden.
Landscape surrounds the town.

Kartoffel > Garden Apfel.
Pomme de terre.

The potatoes and the apples were grown inside of the city walls.
Agriculture is an urban invention.

Landscape is wilderness.
Cultivation is not.
 

yenom

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Words that describe american society:

Crimes, drugs, violence, obesity, guns, Macdonalds, CocaCola, capitalist greed, anarchy, over-individualism, Rock Music, 2 party state that call itself a democracy..etc


I don't see anything good about it.
 

Haphazard

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The painters of America are landscape painters.
America is a land of peasants.
Europe is bourgeoisie = urban.
A farm is not a garden.

Urban America does not extend beyond the mouth of Hudson River.

Rhineland is a garden of Eden.
Rhinish is a unique dialect in Germany.
The sound is melodic, clipped, soft spoken.
Outside of the Rhine, only in New York you hear the sound of the Rhine.

Eventually, Yiddish gave way to English in NYC.
The sound of Yiddish did not.

The town surrounds the garden.
Landscape surrounds the town.

Kartoffel > Garden Apfel.
Pomme de terre.

The potatoes and the apples were grown inside of the city walls.
Agriculture is an urban invention.

Landscape is wilderness.
Cultivation is not.

I don't see much wilderness anymore. It's all been overtaken by corn.

Considering that everyone from everywhere else is complaining, we can all say one thing about American culture -- whatever it is, it's very good at perpetuating itself. :D
 

Edgar

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Words that describe american society:

Crimes, drugs, violence, obesity, guns, Macdonalds, CocaCola, capitalist greed, anarchy, over-individualism, Rock Music, 2 party state that call itself a democracy..etc


I don't see anything good about it.

Cloud, you should watch out what you say.
 

Ruthie

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OK, if the 20th century was considered the "American Century" I would guess a quick look back through those decades would probably define the American character pretty well:

1900 - 1910: Populists like William Jennings Bryan and Progressives like Teddy Roosevelt advocate expanding government to keep a check on corporations (and especially railroad trusts).

1910 - 1920: More wins for progressives... Wilson becomes President, suffragists are gaining momentum (and eventually win in '20), the Constitution is amended to allow for an income tax, and we jump in and win WW1. Meanwhile, Shoeless Joe and seven of his teammates are banned from baseball for throwing the WS.

1920 - 1930: Hey, the flappers were cool and all, but this is what happens when "the business of America is business" as '20s President Calvin Coolidge said... it ends with a crash. Leopold and Loeb kill a kid for fun and Dayton TN fines John Scopes $100 for using A Civic Biology as a HS science text.

1930 - 1940: Happy Days are Here Again. A New Deal puts Americans back to work. Frank Capra's making movies about outsiders serving in the U.S. Senate and Americans get behind a little underdog horse named Seabiscuit.

1940 - 1950: "Rosie" is at the factory building airplanes, we beat Hitler and the bad guys, Harry gives 'em hell, and network TV is created. Meet the Press starts its run, Jackie Robinson plays for the Dodgers, veterans go to college thanks to the G.I. bill, and Mr. Potter is Capra's new on-screen villain defeated soundly by George Bailey, the "richest man in town."

1950 - 1960: Elvis does Ed Sullivan, Ike begins work on the Interstate system, McCarthy thinks we're all Reds, the Warren court says separate is inherently unequal, Rosa Parks won't give up her seat. McDonalds and Disneyland open their doors, Leave it to Beaver is on TV, James Dean's on the big screen, and school-children are hiding under desks to avoid being blown up in a nuclear war.

1960 - 1970: Camelot begins... and ends. LBJ starts a war on poverty. Bull Connor turns the dogs on kids in Birmingham, MLK has a dream, Civil Rights and Voting Rights are signed. We get caught in a jungle, college kids worry they'll get drafted and decide to start a "revolution." Hippies head to San Fran or party at Woodstock, King and Kennedy are killed 2 months apart, Richard Daley goes up against Abbie Hoffman, and Dick Nixon goes to the White House. Oh, and we become the first nation to put a man on the moon.

1970 - 1980: The Watergate needs better security. Americans lose faith in "government." Tricky Dick resigns. The Godfather's in the theater, Mary Tyler Moore's on TV, disco has its embarrassing chapter in our history, and SNL goes on the air. The man from Plains wears a sweater in the oval office, fails to get some hostages out of Iran, and turns over the keys to the WH to a guy who seems to share that Calvin Coolidge philosophy.

1980 - 1990: Greed is Good, Michael Jackson moonwalks, formerly booming industrial towns become ghost towns providing Bruce Springsteen with unlimited lyrics and Michael Moore with his breakout film. Coke changes its recipe twice, John Hughes speaks for the kiddies, Reagan wants that wall gone, Don Johnson has stubble.

1990 - 2000: Seinfeld certainly speaks for a decade about "nothing." The Boomers get the keys to the WH, the nation debates important issues like "school uniforms" and V-chips for television. OJ's acquitted - the biggest piece of the decade long sensational crime obsession that also included the Menendez brothers, Lorena Bobbitt, Tonya Harding and Joey Buttafuco. Cal beats Gehrig's consecutive game streak (a better baseball story-line than the McGwire - Sosa race), the country takes sides on Starbucks: love it or hate it, and we end with a tie election in Florida.

So, here's what I don't get... if that was the "American Century," why does every stereotype about American Culture seem to come from the '70s on?
'70s: distrust of government. Check!
'80s: unfettered capitalism. Cowboys in charge. Check!
'90s: sensationalist culture. Check!

OK, we usually manage to hang onto baseball and rock-n-roll in the stereotype, but come on... are those the only positives we get to keep from our glory days?
 
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Athenian200

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The painters of America are landscape painters.
America is a land of peasants.

If the painters of America are landscape painters, who are the portrait painters, and what kind of people tend to be portrait painters?
Urban America does not extend beyond the mouth of Hudson River.

Rhineland is a garden of Eden.
Rhinish is a unique dialect in Germany.
The sound is melodic, clipped, soft spoken.
Outside of the Rhine, only in New York you hear the sound of the Rhine.

Eventually, Yiddish gave way to English in NYC.
The sound of Yiddish did not.

The town surrounds the garden.
Landscape surrounds the town.

Kartoffel > Garden Apfel.
Pomme de terre.

The potatoes and the apples were grown inside of the city walls.
Agriculture is an urban invention.

Landscape is wilderness.
Cultivation is not.

Ah. So you're saying that, excepting the cities in the east around New York, America mostly has a peasant/wilderness culture due to how it historically developed?

OK, if the 20th century was considered the "American Century" I would guess a quick look back through those decades would probably define the American character pretty well:

...

So, here's what I don't get... if that was the "American Century," why does every stereotype about American Culture seem to come from the '70s on?
'70s: distrust of government. Check!
'80s: unfettered capitalism. Cowboys in charge. Check!
'90s: sensationalist culture. Check!

OK, we usually manage to hang onto baseball and rock-n-roll in the stereotype, but come on... are those the only positives we get to keep from our glory days?

You know, I do begin to think at times that the 20s through the 40s were actually the better decades in American history (in SOME ways, though not in all), because they represented fun (20s), overcoming hardship (30s), and pulling together to win a war (40s). We were more unified back then. Now, we can't seem to agree on anything anymore. Oh, well. Every nation has it's time in the sun. Perhaps our sun is setting already.

By the way, your summary reminds me of this:

YouTube - Billy Joel - We Didn't Start The Fire
 

Ruthie

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Yeah, I'm always a fan of the mid-century stuff as well, though I'd include some of the '50s and early - mid '60s (pre-hippie). We were still sort of on our emerging superpower buzz, and got a lot accomplished with the Great Society.

Funny about the Billy Joel thing - when I was about 8 or 9 years old, that song came out and I decided it would be my "life's goal" to memorize the lyrics. My brother even got a lyrics sheet from somewhere at work and I pinned it up on my wall. I'm one of the lucky ones... accomplished my life's goal by the age of 10. :)
 

wildcat

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I don't see much wilderness anymore. It's all been overtaken by corn.

Considering that everyone from everywhere else is complaining, we can all say one thing about American culture -- whatever it is, it's very good at perpetuating itself. :D
Wilderness is alright.
I was not complaining. I only answered the question: What does distinguish American culture?
In Europe you have these orchards, in America you see wheat fields.

Henry Ford invented America and Finland. There are still people who prefer to walk. Here they look down on the pedestrian. It is because Finland is not Europe.

In Princeton in the 50s, the local people watched an old man walk home every evening. His hair was long. His shoes did not shine, his trousers were not pressed.
He had walked all his life. Hitler did not allow him to walk in his native Germany, so he walked in Princeton. He was the only one who walked home in the little town.
 

Haphazard

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Wilderness is alright.
I was not complaining. I only answered the question: What does distinguish American culture?
In Europe you have these orchards, in America you see wheat fields.

I am so confused. Why is wheat fields more wilderness than orchards? (I should probably note that I have never actually seen a wheat field here in my entire life -- only corn, corn, soybeans, and more corn, with an occasional field of sunflowers in between). In fact, I'd say wheat fields are MORE manmade-looking than orchards. With orchards you replace the trees with different trees -- here, you cut down all the trees and plant shorter plants instead, so you can see all the way to the horizon green and yellow. Maybe it's different further west where there weren't as many trees in the first place, but here, yes, it's very manmade. The patterns are beautiful in their own way, but it's very obvious that man was here and ran his fingers over the landscape to feed the country and make a profit.

America produces almost half the world's corn. A corn field does not look like a wheat field at all. In fact, they're rather awkward-looking. They start as green little sprouts, and then they grow and grow until they're taller than you in a few month's time, green with red and orange at the very top, and then they're cut down and turn gold.
 

wildcat

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I am so confused. Why is wheat fields more wilderness than orchards? (I should probably note that I have never actually seen a wheat field here in my entire life -- only corn, corn, soybeans, and more corn, with an occasional field of sunflowers in between). In fact, I'd say wheat fields are MORE manmade-looking than orchards. With orchards you replace the trees with different trees -- here, you cut down all the trees and plant shorter plants instead, so you can see all the way to the horizon green and yellow. Maybe it's different further west where there weren't as many trees in the first place, but here, yes, it's very manmade. The patterns are beautiful in their own way, but it's very obvious that man was here and ran his fingers over the landscape to feed the country and make a profit.

America produces almost half the world's corn. A corn field does not look like a wheat field at all. In fact, they're rather awkward-looking. They start as green little sprouts, and then they grow and grow until they're taller than you in a few month's time, green with red and orange at the very top, and then they're cut down and turn gold.
Good.
Only the intelligent people are confused.
Curiosity is about reflection.

This is kind of tough. I try to explain.

The wilderness is irony. It is our European look at America. The wild west.
America is (in its base) a farming society.
Connotation: Farming is wilderness: It is not an urban way of life.

The farmers live outside of the urban centers.
They live in the wilderness = out there in the open.

The Lithuanians call the open laukas.
It is the same word as the field. The field is outside of the house.
The original meaning of laukas is out of the house.
A house is a kart (= a garden). The Greeks call it oikos.
Oikonomy > economy (a thing of the house).

The orchard is the center, the heart of the garden.
The field is out there. In the wilderness.

A globe is a ball.
To conglomerate is to wind into a ball.
To come together.

A torp is a house. A dorf is a village.
Villa > village.

Cit > citizen, a member of the city. Derivative: Civilization.

The oikos grew. It became a host of houses.
The houses enclosed the garden.
Not the fields.
 

compulsiverambler

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You know, I do begin to think at times that the 20s through the 40s were actually the better decades in American history (in SOME ways, though not in all), because they represented fun (20s), overcoming hardship (30s), and pulling together to win a war (40s). We were more unified back then. Now, we can't seem to agree on anything anymore.
I agree, at least when compared to England, where I live, the United States has comes across as a deeply divided nation for at least the last decade, probably longer. Left vs. right, Democrat vs. Republican. I don't know how long-standing this situation is. I think your 'infotainment' programmes on news stations are probably partly responsible, and Murdoch wants to bring similar atrocities to our country. I hope he fails.

Within England and to a lesser extent the rest of the UK, the deepest felt divide is currently between the political class and everyone else. Sure left-wingers and right-wingers get irritated by each other and throw jibes around sometimes, but for the most part ordinary people and those in the media seem united in suspicion and dislike towards the average politician across the spectrum, and direct harsh, cynical criticism towards them far more often than towards each other.

Ordinary people don't care to forcefully defend the party or politician they vote for, because they've usually picked the best of a bad bunch anyway and don't suspect critics of ulterior motives. People frequently express distrust and even loathing of particular political parties, without directing much if any of that feeling towards its voters.

There's over-ridingly a sense that most people who vote differently than you do, do so because their experiences, interpretations and areas of knowledge are different, not because their ultimate hopes for fellow citizens are different or they're selfish, dangerous or misanthropic characters.

I suspect this is partly because here there are far fewer social issues, e.g. abortion, that our country is deeply split on. Non-economic, non-strategic issues haven't tended to top the political agenda in the same way, and these are the ones that would be more emotive and create ill will between people of different opinions.

Maybe religion is ultimately behind it. Back when the USA was, so I understand, more united, religious fundamentalists did not get involved in politics as much, in fact they taught that it was best not to because government was a 'worldly' concern. So the people who did get involved more often had similar religious beliefs (I suggest most were perhaps the equivalent of modern day American centrists or centre-rightists in terms of societal beliefs).

The UK, except for Northern Ireland and perhaps London is now overwhelmingly formed of liberal Christians and the non-religious, so again people's approaches to religion are more closely aligned and as a result it's a relatively small minority of people who disagree with the majority opinion on most strictly societal and scientific issues.
 

Haphazard

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Good.
Only the intelligent people are confused.
Curiosity is about reflection.

This is kind of tough. I try to explain.

The wilderness is irony. It is our European look at America. The wild west.
America is (in its base) a farming society.
Connotation: Farming is wilderness: It is not an urban way of life.

The farmers live outside of the urban centers.
They live in the wilderness = out there in the open.

The Lithuanians call the open laukas.
It is the same word as the field. The field is outside of the house.
The original meaning of laukas is out of the house.
A house is a kart (= a garden). The Greeks call it oikos.
Oikonomy > economy (a thing of the house).

The orchard is the center, the heart of the garden.
The field is out there. In the wilderness.

A globe is a ball.
To conglomerate is to wind into a ball.
To come together.

A torp is a house. A dorf is a village.
Villa > village.

Cit > citizen, a member of the city. Derivative: Civilization.

The oikos grew. It became a host of houses.
The houses enclosed the garden.
Not the fields.

Americans have a very different view of trees, though.

Have you ever been to the University of Indiana? They pledge to plant two trees for every tree they cut down in construction. There's been a lot of construction, so there are a lot of trees.

Ironically, the only place without a lot of trees is the Arboretum -- it only contains trees that are native to Indiana. There's a lot of wide, open space there.

I see a lot of wide open space. Wide open fields, wide open backyards, wide open parking lots. At least when you're standing by a corn field, you can see the farm house on the other side. At the University of Indiana, you can barely see across the street.

I hate that place.
 

Haphazard

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Ah, looking at this I got to looking up proximetrics (personal space). Americans and Canadians have pretty similar ideas of personal space, and these ideas are unique compared to the rest of the world -- mostly because they're, well, larger. And more than that, America is able to provide for that need of personal space because of well, the amount of space we have.

Non-Americans, try this experiment. Hold your arm straight out in front of you, with your thumb sticking out. If you were at comfortable American talking distance with someone, you could stick that thumb in their ear. Now, hold your hand flat, pointing to the side, facing you. In places like the Mediterranean, to be at normal talking distance you'd be able to put that hand on the back of the other person's head.

Yikes, quite a difference.

Two other things I've heard people complain about Americans:

1) Americans don't like to be touched

2) Americans are always "grinning like idiots"

Kind of sends out conflicting signals to others, I guess. Anybody have any ideas explaining these last two?
 

wildcat

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Ah, looking at this I got to looking up proximetrics (personal space). Americans and Canadians have pretty similar ideas of personal space, and these ideas are unique compared to the rest of the world -- mostly because they're, well, larger. And more than that, America is able to provide for that need of personal space because of well, the amount of space we have.

Non-Americans, try this experiment. Hold your arm straight out in front of you, with your thumb sticking out. If you were at comfortable American talking distance with someone, you could stick that thumb in their ear. Now, hold your hand flat, pointing to the side, facing you. In places like the Mediterranean, to be at normal talking distance you'd be able to put that hand on the back of the other person's head.

Yikes, quite a difference.

Two other things I've heard people complain about Americans:

1) Americans don't like to be touched

2) Americans are always "grinning like idiots"

Kind of sends out conflicting signals to others, I guess. Anybody have any ideas explaining these last two?
I have not been in Indiana. I have never been to the U.S.

I checked the university, mapwise, a year ago. Usually a university campus is an open place. Like Berkeley in California. So sorry.

Maybe the two signals are not so conflicting. Touching is personal, very Mediterranean.
Grinning is impersonal. It is a sign of high spirits. Left hemisphere, low cortex activity.
 

Haphazard

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I have not been in Indiana. I have never been to the U.S.

I checked the university, mapwise, a year ago. Usually a university campus is an open place. Like Berkeley in California. So sorry.

Maybe the two signals are not so conflicting. Touching is personal, very Mediterranean.
Grinning is impersonal. It is a sign of high spirits. Left hemisphere, low cortex activity.

The University of Indiana is very unique in its foliage. It's often considered very beautiful. I don't want to live in trees, though. I grew out of that years ago.

Smiling is obligatory with eye contact in America. If you meet someone's eyes, you start to smile. You see them, and you know they see you. In America, you greet people a thousand times a day with "Oh, I am here, and so are you. It's so nice to see a friendly face in this Godforsaken place." If they don't smile back, a feeling of dread washes over you. There's something wrong, you think. Did I say something wrong? Did something happen? Did someone die? Am I so dreadful to set eyes upon that they won't greet me properly? It seems arrogant to always expect a smile when even making eye contact with a stranger -- but if the ones that didn't were always harbingers of bad news, wouldn't you expect a smile, too?

Perhaps it's mostly an issue to the South and East, then. Our Southern neighbors often take smiling as permission to get closer. To the East, smiling is not obligatory, but touching is no problem.
 

Usehername

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If all goes according to plan, I'll be leaving the Canadian prairies next summer and moving to a yet-to-be-determined American city for several years for schooling (I can't get my degree in Canada). I am looking forward to it, but at this point there's too many unknowns to get all hooked on it.

Things that I'm mulling over about the differences:
  • America: entering into the incestuous relationship between politics and religion
  • Canada: leaving behind people who are too cautious about casually speaking their stronger beliefs because we're so "live and let live" that they're afraid of giving off the impression that they don't respect your beliefs (I'm over-exaggerating, it's fine to have at'er and all, especially when people intend to talk politics or religion, but it feels like sometimes it's not appropriate to ever bring up politics and religion in ways that it'd be appropriate in The States for just a sentence or two in the middle of a different conversation topic)
  • America: I can order stuff online without ginormous international border crossing fees
  • America: weirded out by the patriotism (in Canada, "being Canadian" is secondary to "being yourself"; you're allowed to live and let live more, but OTOH, it makes people less united
  • Canada: I like my toonies and loonies :( (wtf is with paper money for such small amounts, Americans?)

Also: I don't think the reasoning, "America is unusually diverse" is a good excuse, because while it's certainly true that America is incredibly diverse, it's not uniquely diverse. A lot of this is just in-group v. out-group stuff; you can see the nuances a lot better in places where you spend a lot of your time. There are old European nations who have many languages and cultures to the point that they cannot understand each other speaking. Sure, the USA has a lot of geography differences, but so does Canada and a number of other countries.
 
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