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My Problems with Psychologists

SciVo

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I did not see any significant change in my depression/anxiety until I was 23. I took it upon myself to start reading psychology books and reading every book I could my hands on about therapy techniques. I felt at home with cognitive therapy techniques immediately, and started applying them with my own schedules and lists. I worked my butt off, and after going through another handful of psychologists that could not help, I finally found one that I felt I could respect and trust.

It's hard for me to picture anyone but an INFJ pulling that off. Congratulations! And I do appreciate the reminder that anti-depressants are merely statistically more effective than a placebo; many people are not helped by them and would be better off skipping straight to the therapy.
 

kafkacat

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I think psychologists aren't met for all people, you remind me of my sister, and she went through the same thing, eventually refused any psychiatric help because she thought they were all trying to manipulate her, she saw this and decided she wanted nothing to do with them. Obviously your mother thought you needed help, but you can't aknowledge it, because you don't see the problem, and that's fine, if u feel u can cope on your own, then you don't need them.
I think the bigger battle is with your mother.
 

Halla74

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My biggest gripe about counselors is that they seem to "beat around the bush" when they do have some useful insight to offer you. They sit there and make you fumble around to get at what it is they are thinking, instead of just being direct.

I'm impatient enough as it is, and I don't bruise easily, so I like it when people are direct.

My wife and I went to a marriage counselor to improve our communication. I'm ESTP, she's INFJ, go figure there were some issues in perception, delivery, and unexpected outcomes when we did try to talk! :doh:

The guy we went to see seemed to peg me upfront as the problem, but as we got past having a few sessions under our belt he started to see more of the big picture and lightened up on me. Once that happened I was more receptive to his input. After it was all said and done we did end up improving our communication with each other. In the process I learned some things about myself, some that I was aware of but in no certain terms, and others that were entirely new to my self realization.

You need to have some element of trust between you and the counselor, and you need to have a mutual respect for each other. If you don't have that there will be no benefit to either party.
 

SilkRoad

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My biggest gripe about counselors is that they seem to "beat around the bush" when they do have some useful insight to offer you. They sit there and make you fumble around to get at what it is they are thinking, instead of just being direct.

I noticed that when I had therapy recently, though it was something quite different. I've always been a slightly nervous flyer but I've been flying my whole life without problems, but then last year I had a bad flying experience and developed a much worse fear...so I had some cognitive behavioural therapy sessions this past summer. I think it helped (though I have to keep flying to see how it goes) and the psychologist was good, but occasionally I'd be like "I'm afraid that if I have another bad flight I'm going to totally freak out, be overwhelmed with fear, scream and cry, etc" and she'd be like "So, what would be so bad about that?" Not in a dismissive way, but I think more to make me reason about what, in the grand scheme would be so bad about that. But frankly, it was just kind of annoying!
 

Totenkindly

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My biggest gripe about counselors is that they seem to "beat around the bush" when they do have some useful insight to offer you. They sit there and make you fumble around to get at what it is they are thinking, instead of just being direct.

I think every client is different.

In general, it's a lot like women waiting for men to show interest before investing back in a relationship; otherwise you tend to catch "passive males."

In therapy (which is ironically sort of a nurturing profession, or can easily be), there's an understanding that wisdom must be earned, and if you give someone a pearl before they are ready, they will either trampled it underfoot, swallow it and poop it out later, or think it's a pebble and throw it away.

"Providing answers" might seem quicker but for many it will derail the overall growth process and/or not have an impact on long-term change.

I think for you, you're much more into self-driven growth, so you're a therapist's "sweet dream." They can expect you to come with THEM with YOUR insights and they can steer you.

Therapists of certain personalities might just be facilitators anyway by nature and can't switch to "dictate" mode. I'm also wondering if therapy style (family, addiction, CBT, schema, object relations, psychoanalysis, etc.) will impact how a therapist interacts; it probably does. I think religious counselors are also far more apt to take an authority-style approach (even if low-key), since that mirrors the teacher/student relationship typical in such religions rather than a relationship of mutual equals and no established authority pathway.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Mystic Tater, I'm curious why you are interested in becoming a counselor? Was there ever one that was helpful? Is it that you have an idea what you needed, didn't find it, and so have insight in how to provide it for someone else?

I've been to a few counselors over the course of my life. I think the main issue is that they have a limited ability to help. I went during the times I was lonely and/or was facing difficult life choices. There were bits of help, but the job and dynamic is quite nebulous. In college my counselor thought I might be an anorexic, but her advice about body awareness was useful. There are usually pieces of information that are helpful, but everything isn't necessarily. I found the most important thing a counselor provided was the professionalism of patient confidentiality. The first "counselor" I went to was a church worker who ended up gossiping about me. :(
 

Totenkindly

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I've been to a few counselors over the course of my life. I think the main issue is that they have a limited ability to help.

I agree, I think therapy is unique in "medicine/healing" because the cure is determined by the patient, not the "doctor." In medicine, the doctor can force treatment on the disagreeable patient and it still works - surgery, pills, medication, etc. In therapy, people only change if they want to. The psychiatrist or therapist is helpless, they can only partner with the client.

I went during the times I was lonely and/or was facing difficult life choices. There were bits of help, but the job and dynamic is quite nebulous. In college my counselor thought I might be an anorexic, but her advice about body awareness was useful. There are usually pieces of information that are helpful, but everything isn't necessarily.

I was so introspective that for much of my life I thought therapy was a waste. When I finally went, I found that as far as how I perceived therapy to be earlier it was a waste for me... I got little new direct info/insight. The benefits (since I saw a decent therapist) were actually more along the lines of what I needed, which was someone to affirm my sense of self and voice and give me a safe place to explore and then challenge myself. I just needed affirmation in order to learn how to "hear myself" again and then move forward.

other people are different, though. it is very important to find the right counselor, both in terms of therapeutic approach AND therapist personality.

I found the most important thing a counselor provided was the professionalism of patient confidentiality. The first "counselor" I went to was a church worker who ended up gossiping about me. :(

Uggh. That is something to be careful of -- the "prayer circle" therapist at best. It shouldn't happen, but it does because of religious practice/beliefs. The externally affiliated counselors don't tend to have that opportunity or that excuse to talk to a bunch of laypeople about your problems.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I agree, I think therapy is unique in "medicine/healing" because the cure is determined by the patient, not the "doctor." In medicine, the doctor can force treatment on the disagreeable patient and it still works - surgery, pills, medication, etc. In therapy, people only change if they want to. The psychiatrist or therapist is helpless, they can only partner with the client.
My best experience was with the last counselor I went to when I hit my depression and needed to restructure my life. She helped me feel empowered during a time that my situation could have made my family feel anxious if I had gone to them. The best thing was what she said to me was when I expressed concern about my ability to make it on my own after investing so much time and money into an unstable career. At the time I was in school trying to get a new career, but my depression made it impossible to function and I had to drop out. She pushed back and said I could find a way to survive. It might be hard for a while, but I was smart and could figure it out. It helped me feel confident enough to do it.

If a therapist makes someone feel manipulated or dis-empowered like described in the OP, I can see the potential for a real problem. That might be an issue more with kids because their parents have involvement and can superimpose their own power battles onto the other authority figures. My last experience made me feel stronger.
 

Halla74

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I think every client is different.

:yes:

In general, it's a lot like women waiting for men to show interest before investing back in a relationship; otherwise you tend to catch "passive males."

Interesting! I haven't heard that before! :shock:

In therapy (which is ironically sort of a nurturing profession, or can easily be), there's an understanding that wisdom must be earned, and if you give someone a pearl before they are ready, they will either trampled it underfoot, swallow it and poop it out later, or think it's a pebble and throw it away.

Pooping out pebbles of wisdom...hmmmm...... :thinking:

"Providing answers" might seem quicker but for many it will derail the overall growth process and/or not have an impact on long-term change.

There seems to be some truth in this. I have been cynical and associated the phenomena of therapists "dragging things out" with them being paid by the hour. :doh:

I think for you, you're much more into self-driven growth, so you're a therapist's "sweet dream." They can expect you to come with THEM with YOUR insights and they can steer you.

This guy thought I was his nightmare a couple of times, I guarantee you. I walked out in the second session. :yim_rolling_on_the_ I guess they are reticent to "steer" people as that derails their "neutral" standpoint. It just seems they could provide you with a few different ideas and let you decide whcih one you agree with, instead of letting a person fumble around. It's most likely in my head. I walk fast, talk fast, think fast, and drink fast. I have no patience, it's terrible. I'm not an ass, I just have the attention span of a gnat. :thelook:

Therapists of certain personalities might just be facilitators anyway by nature and can't switch to "dictate" mode. I'm also wondering if therapy style (family, addiction, CBT, schema, object relations, psychoanalysis, etc.) will impact how a therapist interacts; it probably does. I think religious counselors are also far more apt to take an authority-style approach (even if low-key), since that mirrors the teacher/student relationship typical in such religions rather than a relationship of mutual equals and no established authority pathway.

I would NEVER go to a religious counselor! :horor:

The first "counselor" I went to was a church worker who ended up gossiping about me. :(

I know how I'd fix that person... :steam: :threaten: :9436:

I agree, I think therapy is unique in "medicine/healing" because the cure is determined by the patient, not the "doctor." In medicine, the doctor can force treatment on the disagreeable patient and it still works - surgery, pills, medication, etc. In therapy, people only change if they want to. The psychiatrist or therapist is helpless, they can only partner with the client.

Really good point here, nice! :nice:

other people are different, though. it is very important to find the right counselor, both in terms of therapeutic approach AND therapist personality.

This is crucial, IMHO.

Uggh. That is something to be careful of -- the "prayer circle" therapist at best. It shouldn't happen, but it does because of religious practice/beliefs. The externally affiliated counselors don't tend to have that opportunity or that excuse to talk to a bunch of laypeople about your problems.

Wouldn't a professional/licensed therapist violate professional confidentiality laws if they gossiped up about one of their clients?
 

Totenkindly

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just to focus on this one:

Wouldn't a professional/licensed therapist violate professional confidentiality laws if they gossiped up about one of their clients?

Yes, to talk about a specific individual to others is a big No-No.
You can lose your license over that.

The problem with purely religious counselors (who might not even be professional accredited, they might just be laypersons in the church with doctrinal knowledge) in this area is that (1) they aren't under that rule per se if they are not accredited, so there's no direct accountability and (2) spiritual and psychological healing is considered sort of the same, which leads to (3) people who come for "therapy" might still be approached from a religious perspective, and it's common for people to share prayer concerns and talk with others about someone's problems if it is deemed in the best spiritual interest of the person... at least some believers approach it that way. So there is a conflict of interest there, between the private parts of therapy and the communal aspects of religious practice.

This doesn't happen everywhere, I will be clear; I have just seen and heard of it happening.
 

Halla74

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just to focus on this one:

Yes, to talk about a specific individual to others is a big No-No.
You can lose your license over that.

I thought so...

The problem with purely religious counselors (who might not even be professional accredited, they might just be laypersons in the church with doctrinal knowledge) in this area is that (1) they aren't under that rule per se if they are not accredited, so there's no direct accountability and (2) spiritual and psychological healing is considered sort of the same, which leads to (3) people who come for "therapy" might still be approached from a religious perspective, and it's common for people to share prayer concerns and talk with others about someone's problems if it is deemed in the best spiritual interest of the person... at least some believers approach it that way. So there is a conflict of interest there, between the private parts of therapy and the communal aspects of religious practice.

This doesn't happen everywhere, I will be clear; I have just seen and heard of it happening.

Seems like a big conflict of interest to me. Forcing ideology on someone doesn't seem like it is helping them...
 

Totenkindly

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Seems like a big conflict of interest to me. Forcing ideology on someone doesn't seem like it is helping them...

Actually, would you go to a religious counselor if you did not already believe the religious concepts the counselor is supporting? No. So there is no forced ideology there; the person is subjecting themselves to it.

There are religious people who are counselors, but that does not make them religiously-affiliated counselors and they act as professional secular counselors despite having their own faith opinions.

People normally don't go to actual "religious counselors" except to submit themselves to the teachings/guidance of someone who is stronger in the faith that they want to be better at. Still, I don't think it's sound to share personal things with other people in more public ways like I have seen happen at times under the guise of "helping."
 

Halla74

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Actually, would you go to a religious counselor if you did not already believe the religious concepts the counselor is supporting? No. So there is no forced ideology there; the person is subjecting themselves to it.

True! Good point, the attendance is voluntary.
I'm skeptical of organized religion nowadays. :thelook:
Those people expect me to sit still for 45 minutes once per week...
 

prplchknz

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I like my current therapist, I didn't realize how much she was helping me at the time, until I got over a 3.0 in a semester despite failing previous semesters.Not too mention I took classes that required alot of work compared to previous semesters. I mean not all therapists are gonna work I know the ones in the hospital gave me bad advice and tried to turn me into someone I wasn't. So if you find a good one, excellent, but their are many more that probably won't do you much good.
 

King sns

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Ugh. I hate most counselors. They are annoying.
It took like 6 depressing counselors to figure out that I had anxiety. Not ADD, not OCD, not depression, or SAD, or bipolar. Anxiety. (That was a nurse practitioner.)
I want them to fix me, not ask me all these ridiculous questions.
Finally I had a happy male (enfj, perhaps?? entj?) give me one helpful session, where he obtained a quick background and the rest of the session was advice, (not a depressed person asking depressing irrelevant questions) and i've never been back since.

I never understood talk therapy. I have friends to talk to, I don't need to pay to talk to someone. I pay for help!! I feel like most of them need help themselves.
 

King sns

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This is probably the last thread I'm going to start, at least for now. Thank you all for your assistance.

Ever since childhood, I have had perplexing conflicts with my counselors, psychologists, and teachers.

This rebellious mindset was probably born when my parents made the decision for me to see a counselor. I thought they were being foolish and hypocritical by not looking at themselves. I knew they were projecting their problems and misfortunes on me, using me as a scapegoat. And as far as I was concerned, it prevented them from maturing and growing out of their depressed rut. Unfortunately, whenever I explained this to them, they shut their ears and refused to listen.

I even had problems in academia because I was incredibly judgmental of my teachers and friends. Despite my success with grades, my teachers would tell me to "stop being spoon fed", to which I retorted, "Then stop spoon feeding me...". I never manipulated them or anything, so I'm sure they just wanted me to fulfill my fullest potential. However, once again, we have this same problem of my authority figures not being able to see my perspective.

Half a year ago, my mother brought me to an academic adviser because she wanted to convince me to go to a particular college. Whenever I explained her motives to her, she refused to acknowledge them.

So, when I started speaking to this counselor, I could immediately tell that he was trying to manipulate me. He was touching on issues about my personality that nobody knows, and that he claimed to have just "picked up" by seeing me twice beforehand. I then realized that my mother must have given him some of my files prior to the appointment.

So, every time he would make an appeal to me, I would subtly object to it in a perfectly convincing way. In the back of my mind, I was laughing hysterically at his confusion and frustration to my responses. Then I asked him if he had taken any Psychology classes in college. He responded positively, and then he knew that I was playing mind games with him the whole 30 minutes we were there.

Meanwhile, my ESFP mother sat there completely oblivious to what was happening.

I'm sure to some of you, I sound like an evil asshole by now.

However, my purpose in making this post was not to illustrate how much of a douche I am. On the contrary, I want to stop this behavior of mine because it is impeding my progress. I want some input from someone else. And, ironically, I want to become a counselor myself.

Even now, I pay a 6 dollar co-pay just to go to a professional psychologist and confuse him.

Enough about me, more about you.
Ever try fixing yourself and not relying on help?
you know yourself best!!
why must you use a psychologist?


Cause I feel like once most people start to see a psychologist, or a psychiatrist, or a counselor whatever- they end up going for a very very very long time. And some people just enjoy it. But it seems like they can never actually get fixed that way. They are still always messed up and then just feeling mildly better after talking to someone who "cares."

Psychologists like problems.
I like solutions!!!!
 

Snow Turtle

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I've been attending some counselling sessions and just thought this would be an appropriate thread to rant in.

ARGH! It's so irritating talking to my university counsellor since the only thing she ever does is gently push me in a specific direction with what I'm talking about. Every time I've asked her opinion on some matter...

"How else can anger be expressed?"
"What do you think of negative emotions, does it come across as whining?"
"Is it not right to want people to place more importance on your intentions rather than action"

She'd just deflect the topic matter and ask me to talk about something else. In the end I end up gaining very little from the whole session, since it's essentially talking to myself which I already do so often on paper. Should have figured that it would be similar to the Nightline training that I once did. No guidance or pushing, only listening... =.=

Are all counsellors like this? Or are there ones that will actually give you their opinions on matters if you ask them? If I can't get any feedback, how exactly am I meant to gain alternative perspectives?

/End Rant
 

King sns

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I've been attending some counselling sessions and just thought this would be an appropriate thread to rant in.

ARGH! It's so irritating talking to my university counsellor since the only thing she ever does is gently push me in a specific direction with what I'm talking about. Every time I've asked her opinion on some matter...

"How else can anger be expressed?"
"What do you think of negative emotions, does it come across as whining?"
"Is it not right to want people to place more importance on your intentions rather than action"

She'd just deflect the topic matter and ask me to talk about something else. In the end I end up gaining very little from the whole session, since it's essentially talking to myself which I already do so often on paper. Should have figured that it would be similar to the Nightline services that I once attended. No guidance or pushing, only listening... =.=

Are all counsellors like this? Or are there ones that will actually give you their opinions on matters if you ask them? If I can't get any feedback, how exactly am I meant to gain alternative perspectives?

/End Rant

Yes. She is doing exactly her job. And that's what I don't like about it.
You are supposed to guide people to their own conclusions and make them talk it out. They are not supposed to give any advice. (I have to do it for class and write down my conversations a lot and I hate it.)

I agree. Outside perspectives can be good.
Counselors make me feel as though i'm drowning in my own brain.

Is there any evidence out there that proves that this type of therapy works?? I think that something needs to be changed.
 

Snow Turtle

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Yes. She is doing exactly her job. And that's what I don't like about it.
You are supposed to guide people to their own conclusions and make them talk it out. They are not supposed to give any advice. (I have to do it for class and write down my conversations a lot and I hate it.)

I agree. Outside perspectives can be good.
Counselors make me feel as though i'm drowning in my own brain.

Is there any evidence out there that proves that this type of therapy works?? I think that something needs to be changed.

For people who already spend alot of time thinking about their problems, talking over things once more feels like such a redundant task. Yet at the same time I can understand why this policy has been adopted, the practice training sessions where the client suddenly blew up in my face because I said I understood. Or when there are some situations, where it's truly impossible to give advice.

But seriously... when people ask for opinions. I wish they could use their own judgement to discern whether it's safe to do so. If they don't want to get involved in ethical situations, then fine, they can just say they don't know, but opinions on alternative methods would be really nice. It's sort of put me off this whole counselling business, if that's all they are allowed to do.
 
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