Tips from extroverts to introverts

[BlackCat]

yeah I have had the exact same problem with every single INFP I've ever encountered, so I thought it was kinda funny and ironic that an INFP was asking for help with other people making it hard for them to stay in touch without always having to take the initiative and work at it harder than the other person does.

I guess a bit of honesty might help too, like actually saying to them hey, you know, do you wanna be part of this friendship or not? only cos like, you're making me do all the work and that's giving me this idea that maybe my gestures to you aren't welcome, cos you're just not reciprocating any of them. Maybe if they can be made to realize how it's making you feel, and kinda how anti-social and rude it is to accept it when someone comes to them but never make the effort themselves, it might spur them on a bit.

I find though that with some of the very passive introverts I know, who do this really badly, I've ended up having to just sorta demote them to outer circles of my life and let them go, as it were. Cos I just haven't the time or energy to maintain friends like that, who make me always have to go to them, when I've got other friends too who come to me and who, when I go to them, I don't feel like "here we go again, me having to do all the work". It's sad, cos some of them are people I really really dig and I do feel sad that they just can't seem to pull their fingers out, because on the times when I've made the effort we've had great conversations and got along really well, really enjoyed ourselves. But after exhausting myself with trying to keep up friendships with people like that, I've just kinda realized that it's not a fair expectation of myself, so I've had to leave them to decide whether they want the friendship or not and if they really did, they'd pull their fingers out. In 90% of cases they don't, and it genuinely does sadden me, but I get over it and let it go and have many other friends so...

Bolded: Lol. I consider myself a very sociable person, and I really do enjoy people. I guess I'm just an oddball.

Otherwise for the rest of your post, yeah I can totally empathize with you. I have just *dropped* some relationships with introverts because they just don't make any initiative. Or I'll purposefully not do anything and wait until they make a move.

I need to meet some more extroverts, I'm glad that you guys make up 75% of the population. I can understand why too, extrovert-introvert interactions are balanced, and extrovert-extrovert interactions can be overwhelming but at least they happen.

 

[rainoneventide]

I like the "stop rehearsing in your head" advise--I do that... a lot. And I've noticed that even when talkative people slip-up on their words or get the occasional brain fart, it's really not a big deal. They're just like, "Oh, oops. Anyway." So I'm going to try and stop planning out everything and just go with the flow.

I saw a lot of posts with extroverts saying that they feel like they talk too much around introverts. I'm not sure if this goes for the majority of introverts, but I never really think anyone is talking too much, since I don't have half as much to say. I feel a ton, ton more comfortable when the other person is chatting away rather than sitting in awkward silence. So I don't think you should force yourself to talk less around introverts.

This is also an observation of mine, but when there's a group of people talking all at the same time, when someone has something they say and can't find a break in the conversation, they just kind of interrupt quickly to get their point across without hindering the flow of things. So I guess that's a tip when you want to say something but can't find a pause in the convo. I'm not brave enough to practice that yet, though, lol.

 

[substitute]

you say that, but take a look round here and you'll see extraverts complained at for talking too much all the time. you'll see introverts asking wtf our problem is that we "have to talk for the sake of it" or "just to fill silences" and "why can't you just sit and share the silence?" and stuff like that.

introverts do make me feel nervous, they often make me feel like I'm this rabid motormouth and they're cool and calm and you know, well like I have to somehow bottle myself up or come across as totally chaotic and uncool. I feel like I can't be myself around them.

that's just sometimes though... and I think they can forget, really, that they're not the only ones with insecurities - most people have them, and social anxieties, but like I say with the E's the drive to get out there just overrides them - it doesn't cancel them out or make them go away. How do you think YOU would feel if YOU were talking to someone, trying to make conversation, and they were just making short and minimalist replies? Or if YOU were taking initiatives with someone and inviting them, calling them up etc, but they never returned the gesture? Like any normal person with your basic insecurity/social anxiety, you'd figure it's cos you must be annoying them and they don't actually like you!

re. interrupting to quickly say something when there's no pause in the conversation - that's something I was never comfortable with, it's just from growing up in England probably, people tend to be quite reserved and averse to just diving in, sorta thing. I found that diving head first into the local Indian community cured that completely! Anyone who's ever socialized with Indians will I'm sure know what I mean!

 

[rainoneventide]

Yeah, I can tell when extroverts are uncomfortable around me because I'm too quiet, which is definitely understandable. I always want to say, "Hey, it's alright, I'm just naturally quiet so don't feel bad or anything." But of course, I'm still huddled too far in my shell to be that open. So yeah, I know that others are also self-conscious, even extroverts. I think remembering that will help me become more sociable, because it makes me concentrate less on myself.

I'm at college now, so those quick interruptions are probably more common here than in other places (and it's kind of necessary here, too, lol). And yeah you're right, being aware of the setting/culture is definitely important.

 

[Mondo]

I ask a lot of questions. I smile. I tell a lot of jokes. I try to get the person to talk about him/herself a lot. This sort of stuff comes fairly naturally to me.
These are methods which can help you a lot.
You have to convince the other person- whether he or she is an extravert or an introvert that you like him or her.. being too quiet gives off the impression that you're not really interested in anything he or she is talking about because you aren't contributing to the conversation. I'm pretty good at getting people to open up.

 

[Uytuun]

I have found that rather than repressing the whackness that goes on in my head in the form of my primary function for the sake of streamlining the conversation into what is expected, finding a way of just floating on the Ni stream works wonders. I'll be the person to say..."check out the tree..its shape is completely ironic in the context of this conversation...," or "This conversation is kind of dead...what do we do, what do we dooooooo?...we could pretend to be candy bars for the rest of the day." or "Do you also think in your head while talking?...no, I'm not that insane. ...it's just...do you?"...I dunno, it's not fluent and can be weird, but if you say it with confidence and genuine enthusiasm (which is easy, as it's your primary process), it seems to work. You can't just simply extravert it all, though, because they will at some point get an overload of it, you need to be relaxed about it and engage them in it and make it accessible to them and allow them to contribute.

Yes, it's easier to converse with INs than ISs for me. OTOH! A lot of people don't mind being a candy bar, even ISs, waaaay more people than you'd expect. And if they think it's a retarded idea (I'm looking at you, INTPs), we can banter about that. I've found that just because people are very different doesn't mean that they won't be open to sharing your way for a bit and talk about your interests. If the same is true for you, you have the makings of a great convo.

And sometimes silence just fits.

introverts do make me feel nervous, they often make me feel like I'm this rabid motormouth and they're cool and calm and you know, well like I have to somehow bottle myself up or come across as totally chaotic and uncool. I feel like I can't be myself around them.

You make a good point.

Also, next to insecurity, exhaustion from extraverting also plays a huge role.

 

[Cenomite]

Yeah, I constantly force myself outside my comfort zone to make friends and get access to new things. I'm usually nervous when I'm about to meet someone new or go to a new place, but I know that if I suck it up, then the result will be worth it.

 

[poppy]

A lot of people don't mind being a candy bar, even ISs, waaaay more people than you'd expect.

Love it.

EDIT: So I was just thinking about what it'd be like to be a candy bar, and I got as far as *sits perfectly still. unwraps a little tinfoil. glistens in the sun, melting*

 

[Wonkavision]

Also, consider your attitude toward Extraverts.

If you're often critical of Extraverts, considering them superficial, silly, sloppy in their choice of words, etc. you are most likely going to be insecure in your attempts to Extravert.

You'll be so afraid to "say the wrong thing" or "say it the wrong way", you won't even find the courage to make the effort.


The harsher you judge others, the harsher you tend to judge yourself.

 

[Uytuun]

Love it.

EDIT: So I was just thinking about what it'd be like to be a candy bar, and I got as far as *sits perfectly still. unwraps a little tinfoil. glistens in the sun, melting*

You're such a Mars.

Try being eaten.

The harsher you judge others, the harsher you tend to judge yourself.

You, my dear sir, have the insight of

himself!

*dips almondfeet in chocolate river*

 

[Wonkavision]

You, my dear sir, have the insight of

himself!

*dips almondfeet in chocolate river*

Greatest compliment EVER.

(Wait---LOL--I hope that was a compliment! )

EDIT:

Also.....I really would have preferred:

 

[substitute]

Also, next to insecurity, exhaustion from extraverting also plays a huge role.

Do you consider that maybe the E might feel exhausted from introverting? That is, from trying to bottle up their natural urge to externalize, for fear of your disapproving, impatient, silent frowns?

I know that in the past, when I was part of a committee that was dominated by introverts, I used to leave meetings feeling so unbelievably frustrated, miserable and even angry, so pent-up and just exhausted too, I used to actually literally need to go to the pub and sink a few beers to get over it - if I couldn't do that, I'd feel as though I were actually depressed all day, sometimes longer.

 

[NewEra]

I am pretty good talking in one-on-one situations, even if I don't know the person, but in groups, I will just listen to everything rather than talk.

 

[paperoceans]

Talk about just about anything in pops in your head (as long as it's interesting). Like I randomly talk to strangers while I am waiting in line if they're wearing something that I like, I simply compliment them and ask where they got it (and if it was on sale!). This may be hard to believe, but humans like being complimented (bad joke, yes/yes?). Like recently I saw a woman carrying a Marc Jacobs bag that I've been eying for a while; I looked at her and smiled: "OMG is that a Marc Jacobs bag?"

She smiles because I acknowledged her designer bag, etc. ego! And we have a small talk. She tells me about a sale, etc. and then when she's done at the counter she lingers for a while. We talk about god knows what and then she says goodbye and runs off with her two kids to some movie. It's VERY simple.

Or if you're in a classroom, mention that it is sooo hot and tell them some elaborate story about how your hair caught on fire or something ridiculous that happened to you. Actually TALKING about something forces them to have something meaningful to say back. I never say anything regarding a yes or no answer. Those are just dead ends (unless I am trying to end conversation).

Yesterday I asked the girl who I have been chatting to in German class (I think she's an introvert) what her major was. She tells me anthropology, I mention blah blah. Go on from there. It's definitely easier to get girls talking, but with guys I just say something ridiculous or funny. I think it's all about being ~comfortable and confident.

Or simply smile at someone. If you acknowledge someone they would usually say something to you eventually.

But then again, I think that I have some type of ~gift. I usually find someone who is an introvert and turn them into an extrovert. You need to find someone who breaks you out of your shell, gives you that ounce of confidence

 

[Uytuun]

Greatest compliment EVER.

(Wait---LOL--I hope that was a compliment! )

EDIT:

Also.....I really would have preferred:

It was.

But he didn't have teh G0ggL3s!

Do you consider that maybe the E might feel exhausted from introverting? That is, from trying to bottle up their natural urge to externalize, for fear of your disapproving, impatient, silent frowns?

Isn't that what I implied by saying you had a point? That each preference has an effect on the other...

I don't do disapproving silent smiles btw...I try to be as frank as possible about needing to recharge. I'm certainly not going to judge you as a person for being an extravert (duh, we both need our energy). Sometimes (as in you're in my face after I told you I need some alone time - I have an estP brother who loves to do that), though, I will tell you the effect of your behaviour on me is very painful and to please fuck off*. I never hold it against him as I know it's just the result of the way he is and the way I am combined...next time I see him, it's just jokes like old times (unless he really crosses the line)...plus you peoples are fun times!

I do great with EPs outside of my home (they tend to also respect boundaries more - and I guess I make more of an effort), but an immature one relying on his family only for feedback inside my recharging hole can be a challenge (for both of us)...it's like he sucks the energy right out of us at times. I keep suggesting he goes out and finds friends because I feel that we can't give him enough feedback and I feel for him when I ask him to go away, but he doesn't want to. It's starting to become a vicious circle.

Lots of pros too, though, he's an entertainer, really shakes it up...

Do you want to be a KitKat?

*It is unfair in a way that it seems more acceptable to dismiss someone for recharging purposes than it is to hold someone hostage for it. However, my dismissing doesn't block you from recharging (elsewhere), whereas your holding hostage does block me.

 

[substitute]

firstly I wasn't addressing all my previous post to you dude, just what you said sparked off the more general points I made.

secondly, if someone tells me they'd rather not chat right now and just fancy a bit of peace - no problemo. I go elsewhere; I'm never short of places to go or people to see. It's when they just sit and stare at me, or make those faces that seem to say "you're wrong and stupid, but not worth correcting or engaging with" - whether that is what they're thinking or not, it's what my insecurity tends to make of what they give me, perhaps.

thirdly, I was talking about a committee meeting, which is surely supposed to be about people airing their opinions! surely it's the one place where you shouldn't be expected to keep all your thoughts to yourself!!! that's what made that one so unbearable - it wasn't just on a personal level, but I felt like the very nature of the majority of committee members prevented the committee from being able to fulfill its function!!

fourthly (more generally, not to you per se, but the other stuff was also aimed generally too), etiquette and manners and all that is generally supposed to be for the purpose of making people considerate towards the needs of the people around them, putting others first. if everyone is making an effort towards that, then I think you tend to meet in the middle at an acceptable point, where everyone's able to relax, yet responsibly, so as not to encroach upon others beyond their comfort point. I think though, that a lot of the kind of individualism that's encouraged in popular culture ends up reversing that process - instead, I sometimes find myself in group situations where everyone's thinking about "what I need for me right now" and trying to make sure they get it, so in fact putting themselves first, and it ends up with nobody really being happy and everyone feeling encroached upon.

As an addendum, SP's tend not to number etiquette as one of their strongest points, in my experience of them It's not that they don't want to be considerate, it's more that you need to whack them in the head with a sledgehammer to get your point across, because polite and subtle hints don't tend to get you very far

 

[Uytuun]

firstly I wasn't addressing all my previous post to you dude, just what you said sparked off the more general points I made.

secondly, if someone tells me they'd rather not chat right now and just fancy a bit of peace - no problemo. I go elsewhere; I'm never short of places to go or people to see. It's when they just sit and stare at me, or make those faces that seem to say "you're wrong and stupid, but not worth correcting or engaging with" - whether that is what they're thinking or not, it's what my insecurity tends to make of what they give me, perhaps.

thirdly, I was talking about a committee meeting, which is surely supposed to be about people airing their opinions! surely it's the one place where you shouldn't be expected to keep all your thoughts to yourself!!! that's what made that one so unbearable - it wasn't just on a personal level, but I felt like the very nature of the majority of committee members prevented the committee from being able to fulfill its function!!

fourthly (more generally, not to you per se, but the other stuff was also aimed generally too), etiquette and manners and all that is generally supposed to be for the purpose of making people considerate towards the needs of the people around them, putting others first. if everyone is making an effort towards that, then I think you tend to meet in the middle at an acceptable point, where everyone's able to relax, yet responsibly, so as not to encroach upon others beyond their comfort point. I think though, that a lot of the kind of individualism that's encouraged in popular culture ends up reversing that process - instead, I sometimes find myself in group situations where everyone's thinking about "what I need for me right now" and trying to make sure they get it, so in fact putting themselves first, and it ends up with nobody really being happy and everyone feeling encroached upon.

As an addendum, SP's tend not to number etiquette as one of their strongest points, in my experience of them It's not that they don't want to be considerate, it's more that you need to whack them in the head with a sledgehammer to get your point across, because polite and subtle hints don't tend to get you very far

You don't want to be a KitKat, that's disturbing.

I'm female.

I missed the committee meeting edit, but I know *exactly* how you feel about that. I'm very vocal during meetings/classes, I offer my opinions and am there for brainstorming, but often leave very frustrated because I have the idea that people just *won't* cooperate - I suspect it's the Te, and the Ni gives me good brainstorm material. I've felt very alone because noone could/would interact with my opinions, only - like you say - look at me suspiciosuly. Maybe part of their thing is feeling that everything you say has to be *right*, whatever that is, or simply not caring. This is bigger than I-E IMO...fucked-up office culture much? Well, anyway, sounds like I know how you feel with the staring thing.

Don't worry I do sledgehammer pretty well.

 

[Lady_X]

i wish i could be as extraverted with everyone regardless of whatever vibe i pick up from them....sometimes...i just got nothin....but usually....i relate to someone on some level and instantly know what kind of questions to ask...or i feel at ease being jokey with them...i think i'm most comfortable just talking to them like i've known them for awhile...like the way i would a good friend...you know teasing them about something...or making some jokey comment...but...mostly it's about being comfortable enough not to filter.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I don't think I have any specific things I try and do besides what I already said. Even if you're introverted, you should be able to use what I said about myself to help you out somewhat if you decide that it's good advice. You, being an introvert, probably know better than me how to talk to introverts specifically.

There aren't any specific extroverted traits that I can give you, I just naturally talk to people because it's what makes me happy and gives me energy. Any traits or ways I develop are just natural effects of that and are directly linked and dependant on my personalty. I can't really describe em, and even if I could I'm not sure that they would be the same detached from their environment (my personality).

That's the primary reason that you talk?

On the topic. I have this problem interacting with introverts. It's certainly quite odd since we know we both get on well with each other, there's a sense of familarity and friendship but we hardly ever talk. It's just really bizzare...

The extraverts definitely draw out much more conversations from me, or useless "Wah" or acting silly comments. Think about 60-70% of my interaction with my closest friends are of this sort... "Muahaha Kirby owned you!". Occasionally I'll have the deeper conversations with people but it's rather limited, you sort of reach a point where it's...

Dreams - Check
Future - Check
Past - Check
Anime - Check
Hobbies - Check
Values - Check
Subject - Check

After a while all that seems to remain is the same ol' stuff and most people (at least me) don't really want to be repeating things over and over again. It sort of connects with my personality... I'm one to talk when I want to share information or learn something from other people or about others. I find it difficult to talk for the sake of maintaining a flowing conversation and it's very apparant in my voice.

You know it when I sound like a Q&A robot.

Do extraverts talk to collect information? As I feel that's my primary reason when talking. Guess one thing that I am aware of is that I can get so caught up in my own thoughts, and data that I forget about the other person, talking to them just becomes a case of gathering facts from them (thinking of people in terms of a social psychology data sort of way).

Perhaps people can detect that sort of thing...? You're holding a survey and collecting data on general people, rather than the focusing on learning about the actual individual? Hmm, my best conversations always come from when I'm actually interested in learning about someone to really get to know them, rather than wanting to hold a conversation. It's not data collection in a generalised manner but specific.

I've asked this before in the past and I didn't get much of a decent answer...

Why are extraverted people actually interested in learning about other people? What's the point of the data? Or was the focus never about the data?

 

[Lily Bart]

I've developed Introversion to a point where I'm practically an "ambivert", and I get along best with Introverts who have developed Extraversion.

What a truly wonderful thing to hear, especially from an extravert! I've known introverts with well-developed extroverted abilities and I think they're the best conversationalists -- very thoughtful and really interesting. On the other hand, I've also known some introverts who just like to hear themselves talk -- nothing is worse. At least egotistical extraverts know they have an audience; egotistical introverts are their own audience -- they don't seem to have a clue why you're there. Probably the best conversationalists have well developed introversion and extroversion, no matter which is their best function.