Men, Women, and Crying

[lowtech redneck]

It seems you've had some bad experience and are now lumping all women together. That's a dangerous thing to do.

He's not lumping all women together; he's trying to explain why a male might have these suspicions until experience with any specific girl demonstrates otherwise.

It also deserves mention that the emotions behind the crying don't have to be fake for a women to choose (perhaps without even really thinking about it) to exploit the crying to her advantage; it doesn't make her a bad person, just a human being who took the easy road in a moment of weakness.

Finally, feelings of being manipulated are not the only thing a man feels in these situations (he wouldn't continue to feel like a bastard otherwise), its just one of several automatic reactions he deals with simultaneously; the consideration he gives this emotional response depends on the context, how well he knows the girl, and his previous experience with women (just because we dislike emotional complexity doesn't mean we never experience it, dammit!).

...and this is one of several reasons men don't like to talk about their feelings...especially with F women.

I think I'll go back to watching horror movies while intoxicated, now...

 

[Thalassa]

How many women can produce convincing tears on command? Come on....even good actors struggle to do that. :rolli:
If there are women who cry to manipulate, then they are unusual. The issue is male paranoia here, not female manipulation.

No shit! It's so obvious even when Demi Moore does that single tear thing, and she was an insanely high paid actress in her time.

I also don't like the suggestion that women's tears should be blamed for male anger.

Women are responsible for their tears, but men are helpless to the consequent anger they feel? Please.

This thread actually gives me the creeps a little, honestly. I mean, I know there are women who do this, but usually they have some sort of underlying personality disorder.

 

[Alwar]

For me, a crying woman is serious business.

I go into laser focus mode to solve whatever the problem is. It is like kryptonite or something, disarming and also similar to how one reacts to an injured child--you have to take care of it now. I hear many other men react the same way. I wonder what the evolutionary implications are.

Could see how men might become cynical after being burned by a manipulative crier given the serious reaction it invokes only to find out it was a sham. It hasn't happened to me that I am aware of.

 

[BerberElla]

I was surprised to find out how many men feel that tears are used as a form of manipulation.

I wonder if the men who think that are simply projecting what they would do to manipulate someone?

My ex used tears to manipulate me, I saw it as genuine tears a few times, but eventually knew it was emotional blackmail, and not sincere, but just some last ditch effort to get me to feel sorry for him.

I hate crying infront of people, I will avoid it, so if I am crying you can rest assured it is not part of some ploy to manipulate you, it is because I am upset and I can no longer control it.

I find being shouted out intimidating, and it can make me feel quite threatened so I would place it on par with how some guys place crying, as manipulation, trying to shout me down, make me cave in fear by being louder than me.

Who has the loudest bark right? sadly if I feel intimidated I become more aggressive myself so things will rapidly go from bad to much worse if this happens.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Interesting tidbit: The title of this thread could also be used as the title for a Lifetime movie of the week.

 

[bluebell]

I was surprised to find out how many men feel that tears are used as a form of manipulation. While there may be some women that do this, I think the vast majority of them do not. Like some of the above posts have said, I often wish that when I am trying to discuss something important that is also very difficult, I would do anything to keep from crying. Tears never come unless it's out of extreme frustration after superhuman efforts to make something work and exhausting every possible option to no avail (this could happen in a work setting, but not in front of anyone if I can help it) or when I am talking to someone and the emotion is extremely deep and tear slip out against my will. There may be a sum total of three people in my life that I would ever consider crying in front of and those occasions would be very rare.

If anything, I wish I were much less transparent in those situations. I understand that tears invoke inner bad guy accusations for the other person and also put me at the disadvantage of looking irrational and overly emotional. It certainly isn't to my advantage.

I hate crying infront of people, I will avoid it, so if I am crying you can rest assured it is not part of some ploy to manipulate you, it is because I am upset and I can no longer control it.

I find being shouted out intimidating, and it can make me feel quite threatened so I would place it on par with how some guys place crying, as manipulation, trying to shout me down, make me cave in fear by being louder than me.

+1 I *hate* people seeing me cry.

I'm totally baffled by the 'crying as manipulation' thing. I don't recall ever seeing an adult doing that, I seriously don't know how you can turn on fake waterworks.

 

[syckkz]

I think sometimes that its the level of knowing a person to call that "is she faking it or not?" judgment. Because I do agree that there are some people who do cry as a way to manipulate.. and then there are people like my girlfriend, who is a very emotional person (also a INFJ) who cries because she's happy, upset, stressed, sad.. and I know her well enough to know that it's not used for manipulation she truly just needs to cry.

I guess what I'm saying is if he don't know you well enough to know that you are really honestly upset about this and acts like a jerk about it, he's just no good for you. If he knows you and expects you NOT to feel upset about him saying those things to you.. then again hes a jerk and no good for you.

 

[erm]

It also deserves mention that the emotions behind the crying don't have to be fake for a women to choose (perhaps without even really thinking about it) to exploit the crying to her advantage; it doesn't make her a bad person, just a human being who took the easy road in a moment of weakness.

+1

Fake crying in this sense isn't necessarily what actors do. It can simply an unwarranted form of crying. It's when the average person holds it all in, and yet this person bursts into tears. It becomes manipulation when there is no expression that the sadness/pain isn't as bad as when an average person cries. Since the assumption will be that crying = world crashing down.

Yelling in anger or hitting a wall, when one is merely frustrated, is another form I've seen a bit.

What's important is people have very strong reactions to crying. There's a lot of protective instincts that activate on sighting some tears. They can be taken advantage of easily.

How many women can produce convincing tears on command?

Fake laughing is the most common example of emotional manipulation. Often done when something was mildly funny.

Incredibly easy to do in the moment, surrounded by people, harder to do simply on command. Same goes for fake crying.

I fake cried for manipulation at a funeral once, because I didn't want people to think I was a psycho. I had no idea it was fake until I got to know my emotional system better, later in life. Other than that, only during movies and TV series.

 

[lowtech redneck]

I find being shouted out intimidating, and it can make me feel quite threatened so I would place it on par with how some guys place crying, as manipulation, trying to shout me down, make me cave in fear by being louder than me.

I agree, that's often the male equivalent of crying; the effect is different, but the circumstances and motivation are largely the same. If a man does this only sometimes, he's just being human, but if he does it all the time it might be indicative of a larger problem. It's also possible that crying is simply more difficult to repress for the sake of a loved one, adding further misunderstanding to this issue.

 

[INTP]

If someone wishes your breasts were bigger, its his problem, not yours. Hes the one who should be dealing with the problem.

In my opinion smaller breasts look much better than big ones.

Crying cant be a problem, its the cause of problems..

 

[jenocyde]

I am a female who believes that a lot of crying is manipulative and I feel that way because I don't cry often. So when I do cry, it's for something that I deem "real". It's hard to believe, in my mind, that whatever small thing we are talking about should result in such a breakdown. I believe in my head that it's not always the issue that sets people off, but the idea that I don't care about what they think or feel. So they try to appeal to my emotions rather than my logic by working themselves up. It always backfires. It may not be true in all cases, but it could be true in some. Don't you think?

 

[Ivy]

I'm sure it could be true in some cases. I don't understand "going there" immediately. Why assume that's what's going on?

I don't assume that people who don't cry much are snakes with gears and servos where a heart should be. And I think most non-cryers would agree that that would be an unfair assumption for someone else to make.

 

[jenocyde]

I'm sure it could be true in some cases. I don't understand "going there" immediately. Why assume that's what's going on?

I don't assume that people who don't cry much are snakes with gears and servos where a heart should be. And I think most non-cryers would agree that that would be an unfair assumption for someone else to make.

I don't go there immediately. If I am having a conversation where we can't see eye to eye about something, you know - one of those long drawn out mood killers - and the end results in tears, I am apt to believe the crying is from the frustration rather than the argument. So it makes me wonder what you really are so sad about - the fact that I don't agree with you?

 

[Ivy]

I don't go there immediately. If I am having a conversation where we can't see eye to eye about something, you know - one of those long drawn out mood killers - and the end results in tears, I am apt to believe the crying is from the frustration rather than the argument. So it makes me wonder what you really are so sad about - the fact that I don't agree with you?

For me (and I assume other frequent cryers) crying isn't always a sign of sadness. It's kind of an all-purpose emotional outlet. I cry when I'm sad, yes, but also when I'm angry, grateful, joyful, or just overwhelmed.

 

[jenocyde]

For me (and I assume other frequent cryers) crying isn't always a sign of sadness. It's kind of an all-purpose emotional outlet. I cry when I'm sad, yes, but also when I'm angry, grateful, joyful, or just overwhelmed.

And that's where the difference lies. I cry when I am legitimately sad about something, so it's news to me that other people don't. I assume it's this way for most of the men who feel manipulated. I mean, I laugh when happy not angry. I eat when hungry, not bored... same principle.

 

[Ivy]

And that's where the difference lies. I cry when I am legitimately sad about something, so it's news to me that other people don't. I assume it's this way for most of the men who feel manipulated. I mean, I laugh when happy not angry. I eat when hungry, not bored... same principle.

Likewise, the concept of "legitimately sad" is a new one to me. I always thought one was either sad or not, and the idea of an outside metric for measuring sadness and deeming it legitimate or not is foreign to me.

 

[jenocyde]

Likewise, the concept of "legitimately sad" is a new one to me. I always thought one was either sad or not, and the idea of an outside metric for measuring sadness and deeming it legitimate or not is foreign to me.

I used legitimately because I lacked a better word. Crying when you are happy seems foreign to me. Crying is a release of emotions, apparently, good or bad? Which is why I don't take it seriously since I am not always sure what emotion you are trying to release.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I was surprised to find out how many men feel that tears are used as a form of manipulation. While there may be some women that do this, I think the vast majority of them do not. Like some of the above posts have said, I often wish that when I am trying to discuss something important that is also very difficult, I would do anything to keep from crying. Tears never come unless it's out of extreme frustration after superhuman efforts to make something work and exhausting every possible option to no avail (this could happen in a work setting, but not in front of anyone if I can help it) or when I am talking to someone and the emotion is extremely deep and tear slip out against my will. There may be a sum total of three people in my life that I would ever consider crying in front of and those occasions would be very rare.

If anything, I wish I were much less transparent in those situations. I understand that tears invoke inner bad guy accusations for the other person and also put me at the disadvantage of looking irrational and overly emotional. It certainly isn't to my advantage.

Same. Crying is something I really try not to do in front of people. When you cry in front of someone, you are opening up to them and it leaves you vulnerable.

(Which is not to say that women don't manipulate through tears, but that I expected those same women who manipulated through tears to manipulate through a variety of opportunities.)

Exactly. I know a few women who cry to manipulate (although they are genuinely crying, just also using it to their advantage), but they are manipulative in general. So no surprise there. They are all of the same/similar type too, but I don't want to point the finger, so I'll leave that out.

 

[Ivy]

I used legitimately because I lacked a better word. Crying when you are happy seems foreign to me. Crying is a release of emotions, apparently, good or bad? Which is why I don't take it seriously since I am not always sure what emotion you are trying to release.

Yeah, for some of us, I think it is just a "my cup runneth over" thing. Doesn't much matter what the cup is filled with. I cried when both my babies were born (in fact I usually cry when I see birth happen on one of those shows) which were, hands down, the two happiest moments in my entire life. Not just because my babies were here but also because the work of getting them here was over. So that was a cry of happiness and profound relief.

I would assume all of the usual signals of whatever emotion is being felt would still be there. Like, if someone is laughing and crying they're probably not crying out of sadness or anger.

 

[violaine]

I know quite a few women who resort to fake crying to avoid consequences or to get their own way. (I stopped counting at 6.) I've seen them do it so many times and then when they get their way the sun comes out again. Bleh.

It's usually directed at their partners/families/friends but one of these women had some trouble getting some permissions for her business and told her business partner not to worry as she would go to the local authority and cry to make things happen.