asperger thread

[wildcat]

My cousin is a high functioning autistic- he appears to be an INTJ from all of my years of knowing him, but I couldn't swear on it. Unfortunatly, his parents don't work much with him and because of that he has quite a bit of trouble with some social functions- he's the only other member of my family who DOESN'T immediatly go in for a hug when meeting someone new!

The whole Se/ADHD thing might have some point I suppose- my ESTP cousin and I have both been diagnosed with ADHD, but never medicated. Both of us are dyslexic as well. The doctors were afraid to give me medicine- apparently they thought it would swing me from my normal state, which they described as mildly hypomanic, to a depressed state

I'm happy with that- I can't sleep anyways

My ex landlord had the bipolar thing but he was in a hypomanic state. While he was there he was active in the stock market. He lost all his money within a month and then he lost the money of his wife and the money of his partner.
One day a strange man I had never seen was in my house when I came in. He was sitting in the middle of the living room as if it had been his own home. Well it was, and he told me that quickly! I could see he was the partner.
Then the landlord came in. Well, now he was the ex lord. The partner informed him he is not the President of the company any more.

The ex lord went to see his doctor, who prescribed him some pills. Because of the pills he became a chronic depressive. He was very sad. We went to the sauna. He said his life is over. It was Christmas, and he and his wife invited me over to have the Christmas meal. It was like in a funeral.

Why did the doctor prescribe those depressants? The patient had already lost all his money. He had no money to lose any more!

Who needs to sleep. We can all sleep in the grave when this nonsense is over.

 

[wildcat]

I am asking what measure he employed to prove his hypothesis and what population he sampled? I understand what statistics are....I've had three classes.

I had only one and I got fail.

 

[wildcat]

INFJ --> Ni Fe Ti Se

IMO, it's kinda up in the air what your last 6 functions are. for me it goes Ni, Fe, Ti, blah, blah, blah, blah, Se.

and i also think that my ADD has much to do with the strength and frequency of use of my Ti. once my Ti is satisfied with a subject, why pay any more attention? if i'm engaged, i'm quite engaged (hyperfocusing), but if not, i can't really focus at all.

before i came to Cal (and here too to a lesser extent), i was always in the top few students in all my classes...not in terms of grades, but in terms of comprehension and speed. so it was extremely difficult for me to do tasks (busywork) that seemed easy for everyone else. (they were easy for me too, i just had to push myself insanely hard to complete them, since they were pointless.)

so yes, i agree that there's a correlation between ADD and Ne. but i also think there's a correlation between ADD and Ti.

So you have taken the function order test or no?
Fe and Ti are the end points of the continuum Fe/Ti.
If your auxiliary function is Fe.. Ti naturally assumes the postion of the 7th function.

If you are ESTJ or INFP or ENTJ or ISFP you can have Fe followed by Ti or vice versa. They are the types whose Fe and Ti functions fall in the middle of the continuum. Why? Because their Te and Fi functions assume the reverse position.
Think of the old fashioned weight with two cups.
When are the two cups side by side?

 

[wildcat]

Actually, his religion was Jehovah's Witnesses, far from the norm. He got into it mainly as a crutch after my mom left him years ago. Those guys turned up on his doorstep when he was the most vulnerable (as they tend to do) and hooked him in with all the things he wanted to hear: no it's not your fault your wife left you, it's because Satan is ruling this world. Come with us, follow our rules, and everything will be better. He was isolated and alone and down and they gave him a 'family' when my mom took his away.

He didn't insist that everyone follow it, just us kids. His thinking was that as our father, it's his job to do what's best for us, and since he totally believed that following that religion would lead to us all being together on a paradise earth one day, it was really important to him that we followed it. He couldn't understand our points of view, and his peers in the congregation of course only reinforced the view that it was important to 'bring us round' and that we'd thank him for it in the end. Of course they had no idea how extreme the means were that he was using on us, as I'm sure even they would've condemned that.

I'm very sure he was ISTP though. I - he spent looooong periods completely alone and took a job as a truck driver, saying the thing he liked most about it was being able to be alone on the road for long periods. He was also the stereotypical handyman, obsessed with engines and vehicles of various kinds, and a highly skilled crafstman. He was, in most matters other than his religion (which was only in the last 20 years of his life), pretty laid back and laissez-faire.

But I've known some other ISTP's to be surprisingly rigid about some of their opinions, and quite judgemental of people who don't share them. My step-dad for example is also ISTP and he's as laid back as they come, but if you start him off on the Arabs or his football team, he can easily rival any SJ for rigidity.

He sounds like an ISTP all right. They tend to be superior cratsmen and mechanics and lorry and bus drivers.
Apart from that religious thing he quite resembles my ISTP brother.

But even that is understandable after you explained it.

 

[redacted]

So you have taken the function order test or no?
Fe and Ti are the end points of the continuum Fe/Ti.
If your auxiliary function is Fe.. Ti naturally assumes the postion of the 7th function.

If you are ESTJ or INFP or ENTJ or ISFP you can have Fe followed by Ti or vice versa. They are the types whose Fe and Ti functions fall in the middle of the continuum. Why? Because their Te and Fi functions assume the reverse position.
Think of the old fashioned weight with two cups.
When are the two cups side by side?

i dunno, wildcat, i just disagree. i certainly use Ni first, then Fe, making me INFJ. and i honestly Ti almost as much as Ni or Fe. i don't think the "rules" are set in stone when you're talking about functions. in fact, i've found (through observation) that most people's tertiary functions are pretty well developed.

my INTJ friend has strong Fi.
my ENFP aunt has strong Te.
my ENTJ friend has strong Se.
etc.

but it doesn't hold in all cases -- my ISFJ mom has terrible Ti.

so i've concluded that the function order (beyond the first two) is just some sort of guideline.

extraverted Sensing (Se) (13)
introverted Sensing (Si) (6)
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) (35.5)
introverted Intuiting (Ni) (47.5)
extraverted Thinking (Te) (19)
introverted Thinking (Ti) (44.3)
extraverted Feeling (Fe) (47.5)
introverted Feeling (Fi) (27.2)

now, i don't think these results necessarily accurately represent the strength of my preferences, but they come close. (i don't think my Ne should really be so high, i just think the questions are somewhat vague between Ne and Ni)

you're trying to say that a IFJ would have Fe, Te/Fi, then Ti. but my functions just blatantly don't follow that claim.


anyways, i maintain that the function theory reason for my ADD is an overly engaged Ti. when it's going, it's going, and there's no stopping it.

 

[cafe]

My cousin is a high functioning autistic- he appears to be an INTJ from all of my years of knowing him, but I couldn't swear on it. Unfortunatly, his parents don't work much with him and because of that he has quite a bit of trouble with some social functions- he's the only other member of my family who DOESN'T immediately go in for a hug when meeting someone new!

The bolded part struck me as funny, whatever, because my nine year old son (high functioning autistic) went through a phase in the fall where he was hugging people indiscriminately. The incident that sticks out in my mind was when we had just pulled up and parked at home when he saw two ladies (neither of whom I would recognize if I saw them again) pushing their babies in strollers down the sidewalk. He popped out of the van and ran up to one of the ladies and gave her a hug. She was pretty surprised. The speech therapist worked with him on who was appropriate to hug and he seems to have about the right balance now, but it was a little scary when he was doing that. It would have been so easy for someone to take off with him.

 

[miss fortune]

yeah- the last time I saw him his mother had talked to him about how hugging people is a good thing so he went to hug everyone at least once I ran like a dog from a vaccuum cleaner....

I wish that he would go back to NOT hugging (and I'd forgotten that until you posted that Cafe!)

cry: I don't like to be hugged)

 

[JustDave]

yeah- the last time I saw him his mother had talked to him about how hugging people is a good thing so he went to hug everyone at least once I ran like a dog from a vaccuum cleaner....

I wish that he would go back to NOT hugging (and I'd forgotten that until you posted that Cafe!)

cry: I don't like to be hugged)

Do dogs really hate vacuum cleaners? If so I might have a problem as I am definitely getting a dog one of these day but I'm a clean-freak.

 

[cafe]

My dogs hate them, but worse, that same son does, too. I warn him before I turn it on so he can run outside until I finish.

 

[wildcat]

i dunno, wildcat, i just disagree. i certainly use Ni first, then Fe, making me INFJ. and i honestly Ti almost as much as Ni or Fe. i don't think the "rules" are set in stone when you're talking about functions. in fact, i've found (through observation) that most people's tertiary functions are pretty well developed.

my INTJ friend has strong Fi.
my ENFP aunt has strong Te.
my ENTJ friend has strong Se.
etc.

but it doesn't hold in all cases -- my ISFJ mom has terrible Ti.

so i've concluded that the function order (beyond the first two) is just some sort of guideline.

extraverted Sensing (Se) (13)
introverted Sensing (Si) (6)
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) (35.5)
introverted Intuiting (Ni) (47.5)
extraverted Thinking (Te) (19)
introverted Thinking (Ti) (44.3)
extraverted Feeling (Fe) (47.5)
introverted Feeling (Fi) (27.2)

now, i don't think these results necessarily accurately represent the strength of my preferences, but they come close. (i don't think my Ne should really be so high, i just think the questions are somewhat vague between Ne and Ni)

you're trying to say that a IFJ would have Fe, Te/Fi, then Ti. but my functions just blatantly don't follow that claim.


anyways, i maintain that the function theory reason for my ADD is an overly engaged Ti. when it's going, it's going, and there's no stopping it.

Your function order is Ni Fe Ti Ne Fi Te Se Si.. actually it could read:
Fe Ni Ti Ne Fi Te Se Si

and the ENFJ model:
Fe Ni Ne Fi Te Si Se Ti

the INFJ model
Ni Fe Fi Ne Si Te Ti Se

NFJ is Te > Ti; Si > Se
NFP is Ti > Te; Se > Si

On the other hand you are Fe > Fi; Ni > Ne, a J charasteristics.

At first sight it looks close to an ENFJ pattern, yet is not.
The E/I ambivalence is linked to the P/J ambivalence.

It seems the ADD throws you off the rocker, as you say.

 

[Nocapszy]

Your function order is Ni Fe Ti Ne Fi Te Se Si.. actually it could read:
Fe Ni Ti Ne Fi Te Se Si

and the ENFJ model:
Fe Ni Ne Fi Te Si Se Ti

the INFJ model
Ni Fe Fi Ne Si Te Ti Se

NFJ is Te > Ti; Si > Se
NFP is Ti > Te; Se > Si

On the other hand you are Fe > Fi; Ni > Ne, a J charasteristics.

At first sight it looks close to an ENFJ pattern, yet is not.
The E/I ambivalence is linked to the P/J ambivalence.

It seems the ADD throws you off the rocker, as you say.

That's a pretty unconventional extrapolation - what makes you think so?

This is, I suspect, someone who would, in theory score higher on N and F, than on J or I/E. On the four letter tests.

 

[redacted]

the INFJ model
Ni Fe Fi Ne Si Te Ti Se

NFJ is Te > Ti; Si > Se
NFP is Ti > Te; Se > Si

the only way i can make sense of that is if you're assuming i'm 100%, 100% F, and like 1% J.

so the first 2 are INFJ functions, the 2nd two are INFP functions, then ISTJ, then ISTP.

but it definitely doesn't work that way for everyone...

did i interpret what you said correctly?

 

[wildcat]

That's a pretty unconventional extrapolation - what makes you think so?

This is, I suspect, someone who would, in theory score higher on N and F, than on J or I/E. On the four letter tests.

Think what?
And what would be the conventional extrapolation?

Yes. E/I order is linked to the J/P order.
NF >IJ.

 

[wildcat]

the only way i can make sense of that is if you're assuming i'm 100%, 100% F, and like 1% J.

so the first 2 are INFJ functions, the 2nd two are INFP functions, then ISTJ, then ISTP.

but it definitely doesn't work that way for everyone...

did i interpret what you said correctly?

Yes.

It is not one hundred per cent NF, though.
The J tilts more than just one per cent..

It should not work that way for everyone.

Where you have the INFJ cognitive processes test results? If the order of the theory does not correspond with the order of the mean INFJ average test results then I am in the wrong.

 

[redacted]

Yes.

It is not one hundred per cent NF, though.
The J tilts more than just one per cent..

It should not work that way for everyone.

Where you have the INFJ cognitive processes test results? If the order of the theory does not correspond with the order of the mean INFJ average test results then I am in the wrong.

oh i didn't know you were talking about averages. i'm certainly not an average INFJ.

 

[wildcat]

oh i didn't know you were talking about averages. i'm certainly not an average INFJ.

Principally, I was not talking about the mean average. I only proposed it as a possible means to check up the theory.

I agree you are not an average INFJ.

 

[Nocapszy]

Think what?
And what would be the conventional extrapolation?

Yes. E/I order is linked to the J/P order.
NF >IJ.

Well what I ordinarily see is

Ni, Fe, Ti, Se, Ne, Fi, Te, Si

In all honesty I like yours better. It fits better with what I've observed in people.

Actually, what I see most commonly, is the first two functions - the highly frequented ones - are dependable, and the others are jumbled. There's no particular order.

 

[Carebear]

Actually, what I see most commonly, is the first two functions - the highly frequented ones - are dependable, and the others are jumbled. There's no particular order.

I agree. They tend to gravitate towards a certain order (since e.g. high Ne often will go at the expense of Si etc), but it's often very jumbled, function order depending on upbringing, life experiences, work, life partners, age etc.

As for the first two functions being dependable, I agree in principle, but for some reason I always get Ne higher than Fi on tests, even if I'm INFP (only marginally I, though, but no E.)

 

[machintruc]

Asperger is just a discriminatory tool. I have been diagnosed with AS myself. You don't like someone ? Put a disorder to describe him. That's retarded.

But I don't think this was really AS. I was misdiagnosed because :

1. I have a low dopamin level.
2. Most people I knew in these times were hostile to me, and I hadn't socialised with, for "survival" reasons (i.e. not wanting to be harmed), more than not wanting to socialise with. I'm pretty outgoing with friendly people.

Be wary when talking with AS. Don't be too compliant on diagnoses.

I think, all thinking types may be diagnosed with AS.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I didn't know about Asperger's until I joined this forum. After reading up on it, a lot of the symptoms actually seem to fit me. Can anyone outline what would differentiate Asperger's from love-shyness or social anxiety disorder? I'm not one of those people that sees a disease in the news and automatically thinks that they have it. I just think that if I could put a name to what is different about me then I'd feel a little less like a freak. Thanks!