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Gender Roles

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
As Fi dom and very introverted, I've always been considered too cold and too quiet for female ideal. Conversely when I do show emotion I am told I am too sensitive. If I open up and talk then I am "too intense" So there's just no winning there. In my offline life, I've never been criticized for lack of logic and I am usually thought of as relatively smart----somehow---- so I can't say that being F I've recieved any less respect in that area in offline life. My N seems to come through for me and I can fake people out on the smartness/logic issue. No, most often I've been told I don't show enough :static: to be "feminine."

I agree with ChosenOne, I verse E has a lot to do with how the world views one.

:yes:

Yes, I agree. Introversion is even less accepted for women, IMO. Women are supposed to be "warm". Men can be the "strong, silent type".
 

GZA

Resident Snot-Nose
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
1,771
MBTI Type
infp
I don't think I get treated much differently at all, and definitely not worse. I'm pretty up front about being an emotional person... and people sometimes forget that that doesn't neccesarily equate to being a crybaby or something stupid like that. I may not be a rational decision maker per se, but I'm still respected by my friends and other people because I'm sensitive to some things other people arn't, and therefor have a different kind of wisdom that helps make good, measured decisions.

Like OrangeAppled, I am often treated as very rational and such, but when people step too far in that direction I correct them simply. For example, some girls I know once told me they bet I was very good at math, and then asked if I could help them, and I told them I was terrible at it and had no concept of it whatsoever and was more creatively inclined. Some other girl once remarked that I had no emotion and I told her that was untrue and I was a fundamentally emotional person, and she said after thinking for a second she understood why I was so into artistic things now. In this sense, I might just be slightly harder to get to know. I think the only time issues come up with people learning I'm an emotional person is when they don't understand that this doesn't mean volatile and reactive. I have my shit together, or at least for someone my age I do, and any time I do make a significant reaction it is controlled and measured but still forceful. I absolutely hate it when people talk down to me or treat me as fragile because I say I am fundamentally emotional, because the reality is that I'm generally very self-assured and it is very, very difficult to hurt me, and if something comes along that does hurt I can deal with it and don't need cheap sympathy.

The gender constructs of male and female being related to T and F bother me. The idea of me being less of a man or less masculine than someone else because I am emotional is completely absurd, and saying it makes me feminin is even stranger. Because of my values and emotions and feeling, I think I've developed a great deal of self control and conviction and identity that makes me stronger (at least compared to when I was younger when I was a mess. i'm only 17 so I'm still gonna get better from here, or at least I hope I do, hahaha). Anyone can develop these things, and I think having these things and many other things is what makes a man or women, and any of the more superficial ideals of genders like being macho and drinking beer for men and being submissive and delicate for girls are complete bullshit. To me, what makes me respect someone as a man or women is pretty much the same thing, and that is if they have identity, wisdom, intelligence, convictions, humour, confidence, ect. This isn't to say the genders are the same, because for many reasons these things manifest differently in men and women, but at the core thats what makes people great.

But... my ranting aside, I guess this isn't about whats true so much as what is percieved by society as a whole, which is generally much different from truth, so I digress.
 

Synthetic Darkness

New member
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
230
Yeah, I agree with that too.

I completely disagree though, doesn't society force women to be submissive quiet "to be seen and not heard" and all of that crap? Men are supposed to be the loud ones with opinions, no one wants the woman who can shoot the ship just as good as any man. The gender stereotype for women is to be quiet, warm loving and selfless god forbid a loud, noisy cold calculating woman! Frigid b*tches I guess?
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I completely disagree though, doesn't society force women to be submissive quiet "to be seen and not heard" and all of that crap? Men are supposed to be the loud ones with opinions, no one wants the woman who can shoot the ship just as good as any man. The gender stereotype for women is to be quiet, warm loving and selfless god forbid a loud, noisy cold calculating woman! Frigid b*tches I guess?

Are you sure you're not mistaking "women" for IxFJs?

My mother's opinion on gender roles is that men mostly just care about their own agenda, and are sloppy, lazy, want to be taken care of, and only do the bare minimum to keep things together as far as cooking, cleaning, or aesthetics if they have to. Women are supposedly eagerly helpful and service-oriented, care about doing everything "right." I would be considered "masculine" (to her) because I only care about doing tasks to the satisfaction of the person who gave them to me, and don't usually offer to help out with anything unless someone asks. Plus, I'm more focused on people and my own thoughts than I am on how I'm doing things.

This might have something to do with my mother being an ISTJ who was married to an ESTP, though. I've found that people will often try to adopt self-serving perspectives on gender roles which they then apply to everyone else, if they can find a good excuse for it.
 

NewEra

New member
Joined
Dec 21, 2008
Messages
3,104
MBTI Type
I
I completely disagree though, doesn't society force women to be submissive quiet "to be seen and not heard" and all of that crap? Men are supposed to be the loud ones with opinions, no one wants the woman who can shoot the ship just as good as any man. The gender stereotype for women is to be quiet, warm loving and selfless god forbid a loud, noisy cold calculating woman! Frigid b*tches I guess?

You're confusing dominance with extroversion. They're two different things. Extroversion is mainly liking and benefiting from being around people, where as what you're saying is just domaniting personalities.
 

hommefatal

New member
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
938
Question 2: F men, how does the world treat you compared to T men?

They think I'm a sissy and lazy, lol.
 

Moiety

New member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,996
MBTI Type
ISFJ
F men, how does the world treat you compared to T men?


People have called me too idealistic or forgiving but also seem to more easily trust me.


But to be fair, I don't think I could make a distinction between F and T. If I am anything to go by, differentiating between F and T men isn't that simple in real life.
 

Alwar

The Architect
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
922
MBTI Type
INTP
I completely disagree though, doesn't society force women to be submissive quiet "to be seen and not heard" and all of that crap?

I can see it either way depending on the culture in question. In Saudi Arabia they cover their women from head to toe and don't really even view them as human. In much of the West they might be seen as mere sex objects and are often portrayed that way in the media. At the same time there are conservative groups in the US like the Amish who would be horrified by that and expect their women to be modest but not as extreme as in Saudi Arabia.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
I completely disagree though, doesn't society force women to be submissive quiet "to be seen and not heard" and all of that crap? Men are supposed to be the loud ones with opinions, no one wants the woman who can shoot the ship just as good as any man. The gender stereotype for women is to be quiet, warm loving and selfless god forbid a loud, noisy cold calculating woman! Frigid b*tches I guess?

Society wants this for young women-------> :static:

And this for older women---------------> :smile:

They want women to have opinions, cheerful, sunny, bubbly, let-me-take-care-of-you opinions.
 

Kingfisher

full of love
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
1,685
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
i am pretty sick about hearing about gender roles.
i do think there are a lot of real differences between the genders, and a lot more arbitrary and imagined differences.
but i am sick of people talking about them.
i was going to write a more PC and more thoughtful post, but that is the way i feel.
 

JivinJeffJones

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
3,702
MBTI Type
INFP
but i am sick of people talking about them.

There don't seem to be any positions left to explore on this subject which haven't been done to death, whether pc or otherwise. But it's still a huge issue for a lot of people, being so central to one's sense of identity.
 
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