• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

How do you make decisions?

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think you phrased it poorly. You're talking about pursuing a relationship. Falling in love =/= pursuing a relationship. You can technically fall in love with someone, but then choose not to do anything about it. You also can't just decide to love someone you're not already drawn to. Basically, falling in love is a reaction, but pursuing it is a choice. Does that make sense?
I think a lot of people are reading it the way you describe. An emotional/physiological response to someone has little or nothing to do with love in my set of assumptions. Falling in love is a series of choices in the best interest of another person. That's why I phrased it like that - because it requires a series of choices. I think it is interpreted as "getting a crush" which is Hollywood's definition of love. It's also possible to control that based on one's decision to keep thinking about it or to think about something else.

Edit: I also think the process of being drawn to someone does not have to be entirely unconscious. You notice something they did you admire, and so then you notice a skill. The first impression doesn't have to have a significant emotional impact. It can be a series of information that eventually forms a complete picture of someone you respect or who you think will understand you or reciprocate intimacy. It doesn't have to be mysterious or intensely emotional until a series of decisions eventually define it as love.

You almost talk as if love were an action rather than a feeling...
That is probably fodder for another thread, but yes, that is exactly what I think it is. I think there was another thread about nonreciprocating love and whether or not it fits the definition of love. Love that involves marriage, a life partner, raising children, etc. is most definitely based on actions and choices. The emotions will run the full gamut in many cases. The sweaty palms and butterflies in the stomach is more about self identity and whether or not oneself will be met with approval by another.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I think a lot of people are reading it the way you describe. An emotional/physiological response to someone has little or nothing to do with love in my set of assumptions. Falling in love is a series of choices in the best interest of another person. That's why I phrased it like that - because it requires a series of choices. I think it is interpreted as "getting a crush" which is Hollywood's definition of love. It's also possible to control that based on one's decision to keep thinking about it or to think about something else.

I agree that it can be controlled... but you're using an extremely obscure definition of "falling in love" that no one else shares. You're doing that annoying INTP-ish thing where you take a term and tacitly redefine it to mean what you think it should mean, so people have to guess what you mean.

Everyone knows that acting on your feelings is a choice, and that not all feelings should be pursued. Most of us just call the initial infatuation "falling in love," and the later series of choices in the best interest of the other person as "being in a relationship." The term "falling in love" isn't used to mean "true love" or "real love," but you tacitly introduced the assumption that that's how it should be used. Honestly, it doesn't even represent an action in most people's minds.

Sorry for the criticism, but that kind of habit can create communiciation difficulties.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I agree that it can be controlled... but you're using an extremely obscure definition of "falling in love" that no one else shares. You're doing that annoying INTP-ish thing where you take a term and tacitly redefine it to mean what you think it should mean, so people have to guess what you mean.

Everyone knows that acting on your feelings is a choice, and that not all feelings should be pursued. Most of us just call the initial infatuation "falling in love," and the later series of choices in the best interest of the other person as "being in a relationship." The term "falling in love" isn't used to mean "true love" or "real love," but you tacitly introduced the assumption that that's how it should be used.

Sorry for the criticism, but that kind of habit can create communiciation difficulties.
I can observe what you are saying to make sense in people's responses, so I included an edit. It does amaze me that people place significance on that initial feeling of infatuation, but that probably is the more common idea of "falling in love". The term "falling" also implies a lack of control and is associated with Western cultural assumptions about the process. There can also be a shift in assumptions based on age and experience when discussing that term.
 

thisGuy

New member
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
1,187
MBTI Type
entp
question for toonia:

if someone broke up with a partner for an ex who just came back to town, what would you, for the lack of a better word, classify that as?
an act where the person gave up everything they currently have in hopes of something that might not even exist
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I can observe what you are saying to make sense in people's responses, so I included an edit. It does amaze me that people place significance on that initial feeling of infatuation, but that probably is the more common idea of "falling in love". The term "falling" also implies a lack of control and is associated with Western cultural assumptions about the process. There can also be a shift in assumptions based on age and experience when discussing that term.

Yes. I would actually agree with you that "falling in love" isn't love. It has the word "love" in it, but that's merely a coincidence, IMO. As a term I would say it means "infatuation." I would probably say that I can choose whether to love (as a verb) someone or not, but I see "falling in love" as "feeling an amorphous attraction" towards someone.

I also get the impression that you've developed a certain conceit about your age and experience that made you feel justified in redefining the term in such a way that people would confirm your unconscious bias that they don't know what love means. I admit that I've done similar things before, and have pretty much the same bias towards most people... that's probably why I think I recognize it in you. I may be wrong, though.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
question for toonia:

if someone broke up with a partner for an ex who just came back to town, what would you, for the lack of a better word, classify that as?
an act where the person gave up everything they currently have in hopes of something that might not even exist
I'm sorry I can't help. I don't know enough about the scenario.
Yes. I would actually agree with you that "falling in love" isn't love. It has the word "love" in it, but that's merely a coincidence, IMO. As a term I would say it means "infatuation." I would probably say that I can choose whether to love (as a verb) someone or not, but I see "falling in love" as "feeling an amorphous attraction" towards someone.

I also get the impression that you've developed a certain conceit about your age and experience that made you feel justified in redefining the term in such a way that people would confirm your unconscious bias that they don't know what love means.
I'm sorry you feel that way, Athenian200. I tried to correct the terminology. You can assume whatever you like.
 

Verfremdungseffekt

videodrones; questions
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
866
MBTI Type
INTp
Enneagram
5w4
If we're talking about choosing a relationship, that's altogether different.

I tend to put a bunch of effort into analyzing the other person, and playing a long game of mental Lego with our respective personalities, to see how we might work together. Then I keep my eye out for any new information that might throw off the model I've been building. The moment it seems like this may not end well, I pull away. What happens from there depends on other factors of our chemistry.

I'm always open to being proven wrong, but once I decide something just ain't gonna work, mechanically, I'm not going to waste any more energy on it.

This is regardless of how I might feel about the matter.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
That wasn't intended negatively, but you may also assume whatever you like.
I regret whatever confusion is happening here and will take extra care to not assume anything. The last part of the post wasn't available when I responded, but it clarifies some of it. I admittedly chose the wrong term, "falling in love" vs. "choosing a partner" and have attempted to correct it. I hope people feel free to edit their responses.

Edit: I think the definition of that phrase has changed from my generation. It might have been influenced by Francesco Alberoni who was influential from the 1970s through the 1990s and used the term "falling in love" to describe a state in which the individual was receptive to profound life change and joining to a partner in a bond of love. I hadn't actually heard his name before, but I'm thinking that my use of the term would have been consistent with its assumed definitions twenty years ago. Relationship terminology changes faster than anything, I think. I'm not 100% sure of this, but am leaning in that direction.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
7w8
I'm pretty sure there are some cultural factors at play here, too. In Italy, we only use the word "innamorarsi" (which would translate to falling in love) as something we don't have a lot of control with, and completely separate from starting a relationship.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I regret whatever confusion is happening here and will take extra care to not assume anything. The last part of the post wasn't available when I responded, but it clarifies some of it. I admittedly chose the wrong term, "falling in love" vs. "choosing a partner" and have attempted to correct it. I hope people feel free to edit their responses.

Edit: I think the definition of that phrase has changed from my generation. It might have been influenced by Francesco Alberoni who was influential from the 1970s through the 1990s and used the term "falling in love" to describe a state in which the individual was receptive to profound life change and joining to a partner in a bond of love. I hadn't actually heard his name before, but I'm thinking that my use of the term would have been consistent with its assumed definitions twenty years ago. Relationship terminology changes faster than anything, I think. I'm not 100% sure of this, but am leaning in that direction.

I think you're right. That explanation makes a lot of sense. I'm sorry about the negative assumption, that was probably uncalled for. I think I just had a reaction to "age and experience shifting perspective." That's become kind of a hot-button term for me, because it's been used to dismiss valid issues I've had with people before, or for them to ignore their own motives. Probably to the point that I become suspicious of people who use that expression rather than justifying their position by discussing their emotions or expressing factual information in support of their position. Now that you've done that, I feel silly for being suspicious.
 

laughingebony

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
236
MBTI Type
INTP
Choosing a career - Well, I haven't actually chosen a career yet, but I've been taking the "do what you enjoy" approach.

Falling in love with someone - When it happens, it's always entirely irrational in that it doesn't even necessitate that I know the person well. As far as entering relationships goes, I don't have any experience in that area.

Choosing a pet - I haven't actually chosen a pet before, but I plan to someday. Specifically, I plan on getting a dog. The most important factor will be temperament/personality, followed by (in order) attractiveness, size, and maintenance needs.

Buying a car - I choose based on fuel efficiency, price, appearance (it has to be modest), and history.

Grocery shopping - I consider (in no particular order) nutrition, taste, value (e.g. $ per ounce), price (e.g. just $), and degree of necessity. I usually spend way too much time comparing all of my options.

Buying a pair of shoes - I choose based on price, quality, appearance (again, it has to be modest), and location of origin.


As you can see, I'm pretty mixed bag when it comes to T/F.
 
Last edited:

Tallulah

Emerging
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6,009
MBTI Type
INTP
Choosing a career

Will I be challenged and stimulated enough? Will I have enough autonomy? Will it allow me free time so I can pursue my hobbies, which are kind of like a second job anyway? Does it pay enough to be worth my time? Can I work with the people?

Falling in love with someone

Hang around person, notice person's qualities, lifestyle, ability to have fun and still be an adult. Most importantly, notice chemistry or lack thereof. I don't know how much of a conscious decision this is.

Choosing a pet

Think about what kind of dog I'd like, do some research on breeds and temperaments. I like small dogs best. I would definitely go to a shelter or rescue for my next pet, and I would hold and pet and try to get a feel for a dog's personality for a while. I couldn't get another pet now, b/c my dog is pretty territorial.

Buying a car

Go to Honda place. Pick one out.

Grocery shopping

Eh, not much process here. I buy a lot of semi-healthy frozen foods, b/c I'm lazy.

Buying a pair of shoes

Shoes must be both comfortable and cute. I won't buy uncomfortable shoes. They must also usually be on sale. I'm really good at sale shopping, though, so the above requirements aren't difficult. I can sometimes stop myself from buying a pair of shoes if I have a similar pair already. Having said that, I have a trillion pair of black shoes and boots at home.
 

Tiltyred

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
4,322
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
468
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The truth is, I do whatever really grabs me. Because I'm fairly bright, I can always back-engineer the rationale. However, there really isn't one. I do what feels right at the time and if I pay for it later, I'm willing to pay and mostly I don't regret. I trust my instinct such that if there is a negative consequence, I think it was also meant to happen, therefore it is good.

This works out so that I'm right even when I'm wrong.

It's a very handy way to think, actually. :-D
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
738
roll of the die.
same only spelled better.


Dices are awesome. And if it's not the decision 'you wanted', you'll throw that coin\make that dice roll again.
 

SurlyAdam

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
110
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
5w4
All of my decisions are ultimately based on what "feels right." I'll gather as much information as I can and if it makes sense, I'll go with it. I have always landed on my feet and been very happy in the end, even if the choice initially brought on disaster. I've learned to always trust my feelings and I've lived a very interesting life so far.

The only time I've ever gotten myself into trouble going on feeling is with relationships, but that remains up in the air. I don't think that falling in love is so much a choice of to do or not to do. It's something that you allow to happen over time and need to be open to experiencing. The only choice is whether to stick around long enough for it to happen.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I really struggle with the "feels right" approach because when I encounter a decision that involves layers of feelings and multiple people and complexities, I end up viewing the scenario from so many vantage points simultaneously that many different conclusions "feel right". I could compare it to a highly personal approach that mind-melds multiple people. My mind ends up in a horrible traffic jam and all the perspectives begin to equalize. This just happened to me about a decision involving traveling and family illness, etc. I was conflicted to the point of tears because of seeing so many multiple scenarios. I finally I stepped back and imagined I was an external person asking more detached questions about the situation. I tried to add up the information in my mind and determine what sort of role I would actually be playing and measure it's potential usefulness. When the decisions are personal by nature, I have to take a detached analytical approach or I am flooded with data that is uncertain and unmeasurable by nature and for some reason begins to equalize. It is almost like feeling everyone's gut feelings at the same time, and it becomes incoherent. Incoherency is a source of distress to my mind and can get me hooked obsessively until I make some sort of sense, or find some sort of pattern or system underlying it.

I muse over this a bit because it is so clear to me that decision making is analytical, detached, logical for me, but the most natural content and first flood of information is of a more subjective, empathetic nature. I guess I find it aligns strangely with the MBTI system. I notice this generally with a few axis - that the nature of the information: subjective, objective, concrete, abstract, etc. doesn't determine how that information is processed. Factual data can be processed in a personalized way, emotions in a detached analytical way, concrete data understood as an intuitive system, and abstract data as detailed, linear, and non-systematic. I'm a bit off topic in my own thread, but it doesn't come out binary in application for any of the poles. Even socialization is more layered than E and I.
 

Walking Tourist

it's tea time!
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
1,452
MBTI Type
esfp
Enneagram
7
Choosing a career

Well, I am in the process of career change. I chose my first career (journalism) because I thought that it would be exciting and adventurous, that I would meet interesting people and never have to do the same thing over and over again. Unfortunately, the newspaper business is slowing passing away. I am contemplating a new career. It's got to be something that doesn't require me to sit in an office all day or to be excessively supervised. I need to feel creative and happy while doing the work. Lots of money is not necessary but getting paid is.

Falling in love with someone (edited by request after post 23: Choosing to be in a relationship with someone)

I'm still waiting. Sigh. I was engaged twice but broke off the engagements because the guys were not especially honest.

Choosing a pet
I've never actually chosen a pet. The pet seems to choose me!:wubbie:

Buying a car

I have never bought a car. I don't even have a driver's license.

Grocery shopping

I bring a list and buy what's on it. Then I pay and leave. I don't really like grocery shopping anyway. I do, however, love outdoor farmers markets. That's where I'm likely to make impulse purchases, based on wonderful smells or beautiful colors!

Buying a pair of shoes
They have to be comfortable and sturdy enough so that my feet aren't in excruciating pain after walking up to twenty miles in a day!!!:headphne:
 

gromit

likes this
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
6,508
It is nice to ask myself "what do I feel like doing this afternoon?" and then just do it, like going kayaking or to the beach or something. Usually I can get somebody to go with me.

Choosing a career - Think of things like "what do I like to do?" "can I make a living off of this?" etc. A compromise between enjoyment and income, I suppose.

Falling in love with someone/Choosing to be in a relationship with someone - Well in the past I would have said do I like this person? Am I sexually attracted to this person? But now I probably would consider things like "does this person's strengths complement my own?" "Does this person enhance my life?" I guess I've gotten more pragmatic, almost cost-benefit analysis. I just am a little scared of relationships screwing me over I guess and don't want to make mistakes I've made in the past.

Choosing a pet - I have a fish. I went to the pet store and asked which was the most resilient fish under $10 and they told me to get a paradise fish or a beta fish. I chose the paradise fish because I thought it was prettier.

Buying a car - Do not have a car.

Grocery shopping - I have 3 modes of grocery shopping: wandering around and buying what looks good, purchasing specific ingredients for a particular dish/recipe, and making a list based upon what I plan on eating in the future. I'd say I do the second most of all, with some of the first thrown in. Rarely do I do the third, though I'd like to.

Buying a pair of shoes - Ugh I hate buying shoes actually. Usually I wait until they are falling apart practically or I feel disgusted by them, then I go and try to find something that is as close to what I want as possible. For clothes in general, I will often buy something on "trial mode" (if I'm feeling iffy about the decision) and bring it home. If I decide I don't like it, I return it to the store.

I used to agonize more over decisions, but I don't do that so much anymore, because in most situations you're choosing between several good choices, so you can't really go wrong, plus life is what you make of it so you almost MAKE the decision the 'right' decision by embracing it fully. Most decisions aren't super permanent, so just go with it and if you need to change or reevaluate at a later point, then that's fine too. I guess I try to balance preferences/pleasure with pragmatics.

(my current decision-making philosophy, at least)
 
Top