Introversion and Speaking in Groups

[substitute]

I really, really dislike interrupting people.
However, people in groups always do that, and I'm always left waiting for a pause.

It doesn't matter if they're people I know or not.
Group interaction is like a black hole, with everyone just throwing words into the center. :[
Everyone's just looking for a chance to interrupt someone, and there's no real connection between the members. It's boring. Conversations cant develop that way... does anyone else notice how more people = shallower conversations? Even if everyone in the group is really interesting on their own!

Nonsense. What you seem to be describing there is brainstorming, and it comes in various guises and in fact, there's a lot of connection and stuff between people who do it. I was just doing it yesterday, big group of about 12 parents sitting in a café while the kids played, all throwing stuff out there. That's what extraverts do, they put their thoughts out there precisely to see if anyone else will relate to it or add to it in some way, so if you think you've got something on what they said before they finished the sentence completely, it's better to just blurt it out most of the time, than keep it to yourself. They're not saying stuff because they want to be heard, they're saying it because they want to hear what you have to say in return. That's how they connect.

 

[raz]

I usually don't have much problem speaking in the groups. There is a bit of shyness, but it's usually much less than what I expect. I had to do 2 presentations my last week of classes this semester, and in both of them, I was probably the second most confident person next to an ENFP and a 50 year old man.

I found though that although I could wrap my mind around the situation and overcome any mental blocks from doing the job effectively, I couldn't prevent my body from being nervous. As soon as I sat down, my hands were shaking like crazy, but my mind was completely calm. It was weird. Also the thing with me, it's probably being an ISTJ combined with just how I am, that I tend to look at things from an "Executive" point of view. Speaking in front of groups is something that I just have to be able to do.

It may also be shyness, though. At one point during the semester, I was allowed to go up to the front of one of my classes and teach the class a lesson on the board since I understood the concept before everyone else. I went up, started explaining everything while writing it on the board, then looked around the room, skimming it a bit. I knew instantly that I had to avoid direct eye contact for longer than half a second with anyone or else I'd start to lose my composure. I just start to analyze everything in the room and it takes me away from what I'm actually doing. It's a lack of focus.

 

[Asterion]

I'm usually pretty okay so long as I actually have something to say... often I i know what I'm saying is boring, but people still want to hear it, I end up loosing interest and forgetting half of the details . I've discovered that some extroverts are just really adept at forming questions, they will throw them at you left right and center... ones that you have to really think hard about. Since you don't want to not answer them, you give a nod and a yes, even if you're not so sure of the answer. Then they'll catch you out on contradictions and judge you and laugh at you. the best way to hadle it would definitely be to out question them! But that's pretty hard to do, if you don't actually care about them... Starting the conversations is where I seem to have trouble, I don't like just asking them something really plain like: what course are you doing? I'd much rather ask them how to do something, or what they think of something.

 

[nocebo]

Nonsense. What you seem to be describing there is brainstorming, and it comes in various guises and in fact, there's a lot of connection and stuff between people who do it. I was just doing it yesterday, big group of about 12 parents sitting in a café while the kids played, all throwing stuff out there. That's what extraverts do, they put their thoughts out there precisely to see if anyone else will relate to it or add to it in some way, so if you think you've got something on what they said before they finished the sentence completely, it's better to just blurt it out most of the time, than keep it to yourself. They're not saying stuff because they want to be heard, they're saying it because they want to hear what you have to say in return. That's how they connect.

Yeah, you're right.
I think that was my frustration and confusion speaking.

You brought up some cool points!
I hadn't thought of it that way before!

 

[Oom]

I usually don't have much to say. I'd rather listen to other people talk, but if you get me riled up I'll start interrupting everyone and it's a big turn off in conversation.

 

[Cindy]

Thanks peoples!

You have given me lots of food for thought and here are some of them:

I feel the need to observe people in a group before I interact because (not only do I get to know them and feel comfortable around them this way) I only want to say things of interest and relevance to them. It's a search for common and interesting ground. Also I feel like I'm going in blind without this. Having only a few people in a conversation allows me to effectively evaluate their body language, expressions, understanding and interest but in a big group I AM blind.

Am I shy or anxious? Possibly. I find it hard to distinguish between being shy and introverted. I don't want to resist my introverted nature but I do want to overcome shyness. Your responses have helped me here. I can also see how shyness could be a result of my personality type. Bieng a 'T' has caused me some trouble and I am frequently misunderstood with my 'INTJ cold face'. Shit, I should be nervous! lol.

As for not being able to get in a word edgeways, yes yes yes lol.
When my extroverted friends comment that I'm quiet I like to tease them and say 'well I haven't had a chance to get a word in yet have I but keep babbling thats what I love about you'.

It is difficult enough to get a word in edgewise with one person talking to me. This difficulty doubles with two people, but is still possible -- and then keeps going up exponentially until I am left with no time to talk and nothing to say because the conversation is going too fast for me to find my words.

I think this means I am autistic or something.

I do feel the conversation is too fast for me sometimes. Its hard to contribute to the conversation when I'm working through the ideas in my head and everyone else is interupting my thoughts by throwing in more and more information. And I'd better be listening because if I'm not the conversation might be on such a different track by the time I'm ready to contribute. I need to draw conclusions internally first. This is why I think learning by reading works better for me than listening to people speak. It REALLY sucks when I'm in a workshop situation at work and I have to comment on whats been said or present on behalf of the group, ugh.

I know a couple of INFP's who seem to have no difficulty in groups. Even people they've never met, they seem to quite quickly find their feet and warm up, and they're very good at finding just the right words to say at the right moment. They definitely are both introverts though. One of them, you can tell she's nervous really obviously, but it's quite charming really

It is nice to know that nervousness can be seen as charming and I have used this thought to help me through social situations which have made me nervous. Unfortunately though this one doesn't work for me when I have to speak in groups at work because I don't think it's OK to look cute when I should be looking professional. What to do?

I usually don't have much problem speaking in the groups. There is a bit of shyness, but it's usually much less than what I expect. I had to do 2 presentations my last week of classes this semester, and in both of them, I was probably the second most confident person next to an ENFP and a 50 year old man.

I found though that although I could wrap my mind around the situation and overcome any mental blocks from doing the job effectively, I couldn't prevent my body from being nervous. As soon as I sat down, my hands were shaking like crazy, but my mind was completely calm. It was weird. Also the thing with me, it's probably being an ISTJ combined with just how I am, that I tend to look at things from an "Executive" point of view. Speaking in front of groups is something that I just have to be able to do.

I've had similar experiences where I couldn't prevent my body from being nervous but I wasn't feeling all that nervous in my head.
Its annoying!

I hope this makes some sense.

 

[Eagle]

I was recently asked by an extrovert why introverts are quiet in social gatherings. It was then suggested that this is because we don't want to look stupid. I'm not convinced. Any thoughts?

Up until now I have just accepted that introverts aren't confident in social situations. But now I stop and think about it I wonder if I've just had that reasoning belted into me by the extroverts in my life. And I can understand why extroverts might think its a confidence thing as I imagine this is the only reason an extrovert might be bothered by public talking.

Perhaps the situation is just too overstimulating for us introverts and thus makes us feel anxious or drained. I know a lot of the time I simply don't have anything to say however once I have gotten to know a group of friends you might just not be able to shut me up.

I work in groups a lot. When it comes to public speaking I have no problem. And it's not really confidence when I am with my friends or in other groups. Sometimes, it's that there is just nothing to say. I also find that sometimes there is a lot to say but the situation is draining so I retreat inward just to try and recharge. It happens.

 

[jenocyde]

I also don't find myself compelled to talk just to be heard.

They prefer to be the center attention and do not like the spotlight off of them for even a brief second.

Everyone's just looking for a chance to interrupt someone, and there's no real connection between the members. It's boring. Conversations cant develop that way... does anyone else notice how more people = shallower conversations? Even if everyone in the group is really interesting on their own!

Wow, I completely disagree. I'm talking to get connected. To engage you and share ideas. Not to hear myself talk or to get in the spotlight. I just expect people to jump in when they want and jump back out if they don't want.

 

[jenocyde]

Nonsense. What you seem to be describing there is brainstorming, and it comes in various guises and in fact, there's a lot of connection and stuff between people who do it. I was just doing it yesterday, big group of about 12 parents sitting in a café while the kids played, all throwing stuff out there. That's what extraverts do, they put their thoughts out there precisely to see if anyone else will relate to it or add to it in some way, so if you think you've got something on what they said before they finished the sentence completely, it's better to just blurt it out most of the time, than keep it to yourself. They're not saying stuff because they want to be heard, they're saying it because they want to hear what you have to say in return. That's how they connect.

Just saw this. +1, of course.

It's like playing MadLibs.

 

[Haphazard]

Wow, I completely disagree. I'm talking to get connected. To engage you and share ideas. Not to hear myself talk or to get in the spotlight. I just expect people to jump in when they want and jump back out if they don't want.

But there's no room...

 

[jenocyde]

But there's no room...

you just make your own room... if you are constantly waiting, then nothing will ever happen for you - someone else will take your opportunity. I find it extremely hard to believe that there is not one pause to be had anywhere in most conversations.

EDIT: and most times, if there's dead silence, I take that as a sign to talk more.

 

[Totenkindly]

I've struggled with vocalizing in groups for reasons like these:

• I don't want to look stupid
• I don't want to be insensitive or make a large gaff & hurt someone's feelings by accident
• I don't want to talk over top of others, I find it rude... and hard, because my voice is not loud.
• I don't want to be over-stimulated.
• I don't want to draw lots of attention to myself and be scrutinized
• I don't want to piss someone off and burn bridges / find myself in a conflict
• I don't want to exhaust myself, because it takes energy to be "on" especially if I am thinking about all of the above.

Plus, you can better control the dissemination of information about yourself if you are one-on-one, otherwise you have to somehow tailor what you expose to accommodate the lowest-common denominator in the group.

Yes, if you get me in a group of people I trust and like, I can become very extroverted (Ne starts pinging all over the place)... but it still does drain me. I think that's one of the introverted qualities that stands out -- an introvert can act extroverted, but it's still like "being on" and it takes far more energy expenditure for the introvert, and afterwards they still need to recharge even if they had a good time.

you just make your own room... if you are constantly waiting, then nothing will ever happen for you - someone else will take your opportunity. I find it extremely hard to believe that there is not one pause to be had anywhere in most conversations.

I agree, I had to learn this the hard way.

Basically, in any group, whoever is "least sensitive" to letting others speak will always dominate the discussion.

A whole room of introverts can actually be good, they'll listen to each other and leave space, although some will be too scared to speak at all; meanwhile, extroverts tend to take over, and the less mature ones will not leave enough pause for an introvert to feel comfortable enough to jump in.

I learned I had to jump in and sometimes even talk over someone else, if they've been hogging the dialog. I tend to view it as important, actually, if only for the group dynamic, to prevent one person from taking over and ruining the whole discussion.

 

[jenocyde]

A whole room of introverts can actually be good, they'll listen to each other and leave space, although some will be too scared to speak at all; meanwhile, extroverts tend to take over, and the less mature ones will not leave enough pause for an introvert to feel comfortable enough to jump in.

I'll let you know tomorrow. I'll be the only extrovert at our meet up tonight.

I like one on one conversations much less. If I don't like the topic after a point, I can't just sit back and listen to others talk and get energized with new ideas - I'm stuck with that one person and that one topic. This is why I hate dating so much - I need more stimulation!!! (um...) If the person is Ne, it's ok. Unless it's a serious discussion, in which case I can (and love to) talk one on one.

My biggest fear when dealing with a room full of introverts is that the conversation moves too slowly and people are extremely long winded since they form these elaborate sentences in their heads... (oops - but that's not to scare off the people coming tonight, I promise!!!) And if an extrovert doesn't take a break, just butt in anyway... it's not rude to stop someone else from being rude.

 

[Sentura]

I've struggled with vocalizing in groups for reasons like these:

• I don't want to look stupid
• I don't want to be insensitive or make a large gaff & hurt someone's feelings by accident
• I don't want to talk over top of others, I find it rude... and hard, because my voice is not loud.
• I don't want to be over-stimulated.
• I don't want to draw lots of attention to myself and be scrutinized
• I don't want to piss someone off and burn bridges / find myself in a conflict
• I don't want to exhaust myself, because it takes energy to be "on" especially if I am thinking about all of the above.

why would you not want to face your fears? i'm just thinking that it would be easier for you if you started not caring about all of these things - essentially suppressing them. i used to be much more introvert earlier in my life, but i conquered it this way.

and while i don't think introversion is a disease or anything bad, i think these things are linked more to paranoia than to introversion (i consider introversion a trait that gives you energy for being alone, not as a social blocker).

 

[Haphazard]

Ah, that's the thing, too. My voice is extremely quiet. Even when I do speak, people usually can't hear me and therefore talk over it anyway.

 

[Clover]

Wow, I completely disagree. I'm talking to get connected. To engage you and share ideas. Not to hear myself talk or to get in the spotlight. I just expect people to jump in when they want and jump back out if they don't want.

I only meant some people I have met, it was not aimed at all extroverts in general. I can jump in when I feel like it, but it is impossible if people just will not listen. I have known people who just interrupt others just for the sake of being heard, it is like they cannot stand that someone would get more attention then them. I just call those people rude, I do not automatically think "stupid extrovert."

 

[nocebo]

EDIT: and most times, if there's dead silence, I take that as a sign to talk more.

(just out of curiosity) Do you find silence to be awkward?

I realized the other day that in a conversation with mostly introverts, I would purposely pause in between words so that everyone could gather their thoughts and feelings on what had just been said. In a group of mostly extroverts though, I just kind of expected them to jump in whenever they felt like it, just like you described!

It was interesting!

I guess that in really large groups, it's important to mix it up a little.
(And I think that balanced extroverts can pick up on that, just like I didn't feel the need to pause in groups with lots of extroverts, they can pick up on their need to pause in groups with lots of introverts. Wow, that was wordy! XD)

 

[jenocyde]

(just out of curiosity) Do you find silence to be awkward?

I never feel silences are awkward, just boring. If we're not going to talk about anything, then I'll run off and do something else.

Update: I was at a table full of introverts and it was hilarious to watch all of it with these concepts in mind. I don't know, maybe it was the alcohol, but there was never a dull moment... I tried to make sure I didn't suffocate anyone (I don't think I did but it's a possibility ) but I did notice that people were more comfortable speaking to those directly next to them, rather than having one big group conversation and yelling to the other end of the table. At any given time, there were 2-4 animated mini conversations. It was cool to watch.

 

[Udog]

Hah, that's classic introvert Jen.

Sometimes I'll come out of my skin and entertain a table with my silliness. (My mock egotistical bastard personality seems to attract alot of attention. ) However, invariably someone eventually makes a "Wow, look at Udog at the center of attention" type comment, which takes the air out of me and I end up going back to the one on one, intimate conversations.

 

[jenocyde]

Hah, that's classic introvert Jen.

Sometimes I'll come out of my skin and entertain a table with my silliness. (My mock egotistical bastard personality seems to attract alot of attention. ) However, invariably someone eventually makes a "Wow, look at Udog at the center of attention" type comment, which takes the air out of me and I end up going back to the one on one, intimate conversations.

Hahaha, that's so adorable.