Extraversion as a choice?

[MrME]

But, is being driven crazy a bad thing? That's the question! My girlfriend drives me crazy sometimes, but I love her!

When it's stress-related, yeah. I would put money down that if a fairly outgoing extravert were forced to live my day-to-day life, within three months they would be clawing away at the wallpaper.

 

[King sns]

When it's stress-related, yeah. I would put money down that if a fairly outgoing extravert were forced to live my day-to-day life, within three months they would be clawing away at the wallpaper.

Of course we would go crazy. No strong introvert in their right mind would ever happily adjust to my life either.
I don't think to be forced into whole new life would be a way to change your preferences. (Heck, I'm a P trapped in a J life!! Its terrible!! )

But like anything, small steps. Slowly changing your focus. Change doesn't happen by force or in a set period of time. It happens by very purposeful and controlled effort of the person trying to make a change. And if you force yourself into a sudden huge lifestyle change, you get tired and frustrated, and you're still who you are. But slow, purposeful mental adjustments are possible to do. Over time people can make big changes in their personality. (In my mind, anyway.)

 

[LucrativeSid]

When it's stress-related, yeah. I would put money down that if a fairly outgoing extravert were forced to live my day-to-day life, within three months they would be clawing away at the wallpaper.

Being forced into something may build some resentment, no matter what the situation is. But even then, they can either spend their time being resentful and scratching at wallpaper like a dumbass, or they can come to peace with it and try to think of a way to benefit from the experience. You always have the power of choice. Your attitude is yours to control. And if an extrovert made the choice themselves to live as introvert for three months from the beginning, rather than being forced into it, they'd already be a lot more at peace with it and a lot more prepared for it. Living as an introvert has more benefits than one could measure.

The outcome of the extrovert would depend on the choices they made about the situation. Anything else is merely an excuse.

 

[MrME]

Being forced into something may build some resentment, no matter what the situation is. But even then, they can either spend their time being resentful and scratching at wallpaper like a dumbass, or they can come to peace with it and try to think of a way to benefit from the experience.

Okay, let's not latch on to my use of the word "forced," here. I would challenge any extravert to voluntarily live my day-to-day life for three months straight. I said this already, but it bears repeating: I spent years trying to turn myself into an extravert, and all I got out of it were years of misery, depression, and confusion. I would expect an extravert attempting to turn him or herself into a introvert would experience something similar because their nervous system is not hardwired for long periods of time alone.

 

[LucrativeSid]

Okay, let's not latch on to my use of the word "forced," here. I would challenge any extravert to voluntarily live my day-to-day life for three months straight. I said this already, but it bears repeating: I spent years trying to turn myself into an extravert, and all I got out of it were years of misery, depression, and confusion. I would expect an extravert attempting to turn him or herself into a introvert would experience something similar because their nervous system is not hardwired for long periods of time alone.

I wasn't latching on to the word "forced". I knew that wasn't your point. That's why I addressed an unforced scenario as well, so you wouldn't think I misunderstood you. "And if an extrovert made the choice themselves to live as introvert for three months from the beginning, rather than being forced into it, they'd already be a lot more at peace with it and a lot more prepared for it. Living as an introvert has more benefits than one could measure."

You're still talking about pure change, though, and I'm not. Sorry about that. I think a pure change would be a worthless goal, regardless of whether it is possible or not. (The expanded version of this opinion is a few posts back.) It's only worthwhile to learn how to take the benefits from the opposite side while still keeping what you've already got. If you have to lose all your own benefits to gain the others, how would that even make sense?

I was just responding to the idea that an extrovert couldn't live an introverted lifestyle for three months without going crazy or suffering from numerous negative side-effects.

Why do humans flourish? Because we can adapt. A human being that cannot adapt is a sad human, indeed.

So, sorry about the confusion. I wasn't talking about fully changing from one thing to another.

Billions of introverts have spent years in misery, depression, and confusion without even trying to become extroverts. When you stopped trying to become an extrovert, what was it like? How happy are you now?

 

[LucrativeSid]

By the way, those were serious questions. Not leads into something else that I want to say.

 

[King sns]

Okay, let's not latch on to my use of the word "forced," here. I would challenge any extravert to voluntarily live my day-to-day life for three months straight. I said this already, but it bears repeating: I spent years trying to turn myself into an extravert, and all I got out of it were years of misery, depression, and confusion. I would expect an extravert attempting to turn him or herself into a introvert would experience something similar because their nervous system is not hardwired for long periods of time alone.

yea, either way, it would be frustrating
voluntary or not. you can make minor changes to anything.
minor changes lead to big changes. If I stopped talking and went into my room for a while, i'd appear more introverted, but i'd still be an extravert.

Now if I began to try to be happy with introversion, or re engergize by spending time alone, (once in a while, on purpose.) Then slowly I may start to become more introverted.

 

[MrME]

No worries, Sid. My extraverted roommates have both said that they would go crazy if they tried to live like I do. For example, I had a two-week vacation a few months back and I spent the vast majority of it at home.

I also recognize that I'm extremely introverted and reclusive. It's a trait that I share with my father and my grandfather.

When you stopped trying to become an extrovert, what was it like? How happy are you now?

These days I'm probably happier than I've been since I hit my teens.

Long story short, I landed in the hospital after suffering a pretty severe breakdown. The doctors said that I wouldn't be allowed to leave unless I agreed to go on an anti-depressant, so I agreed to go on Paxil. Once on Paxil, my emotions pretty much dried up, and I found myself spending a lot of time alone. I guilted myself out about it for a while, too. Then I weened myself off Paxil and found that I truly liked being alone with all the benefits that it brings, (peace, quiet and the opportunity to concentrate on subjects that I find fun and interesting), despite the guilt that I felt for losing touch with some people in my life.

 

[Wyst]

LOL. Elitist! And you must be talking about if you chose to act like an extrovert, not be one, because if you were actually being one, you wouldn't self-destruct.

Exactly!
Since we'll self-destructo if we choose to truly act like one, I think that being an extrovert isn't a choice.

 

[LucrativeSid]

Sometimes I'd take statements like the ones your roommates made as something similar to, "I'd go crazy if I couldn't eat chocolate." Sure, the person loves chocolate, but without it, they'd be fine. (Unless they convinced themselves otherwise.) They might even realize that they like bananas even more than chocolate, especially if they were optimistic about the upcoming change. With stuff like this, your own choice and belief can pretty much make the case.

I'll make no claims as to whether what they (or anyone) says is the absolute truth or not. That's not the kind of line I like to draw in my sketch of the world.

I always claim uncertainty over whether or not I'm an E or I. I know tons of people who would swear it either way. The majority of folks that know me from here think I'm an E. However, I've spent years living alone in an apartment, often going months and months without visiting anyone or going anywhere. I never felt an ounce of guilt about it, either. Instead of feeling ashamed about this kind of behavior, I'd just make fun of the people who's invitations I'd declined for their inability to even do it.

Am I happy or sad when I'm alone for long periods of time? I can be either one. And the same goes for when I'm socializing - it only depends. I don't think my happiness and ability to flourish has much to do with my introversion and extroversion and how I feed those things. The other factors are more important. Catering to your introverted or extroverted needs is no panacea for happiness. It's only one small part.

 

[LucrativeSid]

Exactly!
Since we'll self-destructo if we choose to truly act like one, I think that being an extrovert isn't a choice.

LOL. This is a beautiful circle of logic. What if we skip the acting stage and go straight to the being stage? You know, mediate yourself into it? What then?! Do you really have to act like something to become it? Can't you just decide? (At least sometimes?)

 

[raz]

Right now, I'm not as much trying to be an extravert, but more so trying to comes to terms with my own personal needs to extravert. It's explained in Lenore Thomson's book as the Tertiary problem. All types to justify their lifestyle fall back on their tertiary function. Growth away from this problem for introverts comes in understanding the worth of the external world and it's contributions to the inner world.

I was in a depression for over 6 years and took Paxil. The depression wasn't caused by wanting to be extraverted, but rather personal life trauma. Afterward, I equated solitude with depression and I still do to a degree. Right now I'm trying to learn how to spend as much time in solitude as I want without the guilt of thinking I'm not interacting with the outside world enough.

I'd have to side with MBTI on having a very Te philosophy on life. If I have a problem with my life, obviously the solution lies in improving the level of control I have, but step by step as guided by Si. I just can't understand the concept of being surrounded by people, and feeling energized enough to control the situation by interacting directly with it as it happens. I'd need to back off to the side and formulate a plan observing.

 

[Walking Tourist]

I am another one who doesn't know my preference (I vs. E)
For quite a long time, I lived alone. It was very lonely. I felt tired and depressed. But I didn't even know that I felt depressed. When I was alone that much, I would talk out loud because I got so bored at hearing no one. Hearing myself wasn't especially stimulating, though.
Excessive solitude was very draining on me. It sapped all of my energy.
But being with people constantly is draining, but in a different way. I get overstimulated and confused by multiple conversations. I can't tune out background noise, thanks to my auditory processing disorder. The noise and chaos makes me want to take a break from people, to go to a quiet space and try to chase the noise out of my head.
But, in a more pleasant, less noisy environment, I find that I prefer to have people around me than to be alone. Sure, I like some alone time to read, to draw, to play the piano. It relaxes me, makes me feel recharged, and then, I can enjoy the company of other people.
But I also feel very energized by being with a small group of people, chatting, sharing stories, etc.
Or sometimes, even a larger group stimulates me. I was in a community chorus concert a few days ago, and we had a reception, and I got to visit with friends, and it was fun, and I got energy from being with them.
Since I really don't know if I prefer I or E, do I actually consciously make a choice?
Or does one of the two choose me???

 

[raz]

I've started to notice myself as being in a cycle with my energy. I tend to spend a lot of time doing something active or interacting with people until I feel drained, then I spend time alone until I recharge, and then I want to go do something active or talk to people, restarting the process. It's like I build the energy, then use it, then build it, then use it, rinse and repeat.

 

[FallaciaSonata]

....despite the guilt that I felt for losing touch with some people in my life.

Just a thought on that.... That particular statement --- I feel that way. I occasionally feel guilt for not "keeping in touch" with people. I know it might sound bad, but I usually only talk to people if it benefits me somehow. (This means people other than family and my select few friends.) Unless I need to be talking to them, or helping them out, learning something from them, etc, I don't talk to them.

So, is that pure selfishness on my part? Or is this guilt something I should ignore?

 

[Jeremy]

I don't know if I'd want to choose to be so anyway. The benefits are there, but there are cons as well.. for instance, would I still be "me" if I decided to suddenly change into an extrovert? I don't think I would be. Part of who I am is a quiet, listen first-then act sort of person. I like being an introvert, so I don't think I'd want to change, even if it was a choice.

 

[Snowey1210]

Okay, I read more into the OP than, perhaps, was written. And, I certainly wasn't taking anything in the thread personally. But, I challenge the sentiment that I/E preferences are a choice and they can be changed. It's frequently extraverts that hold this sentiment, too, it seems.

It was never the intention of my argument to state that Extraverts should become Introverts, or visa versa, I was merely commenting upon the ability for a person to choose to do so. Balance is the key in most instances.

You cannot change who you really are? Who are you, really? You can let biology give you the answer, or you can be the biology and give your own answer. I am who I choose to be. Whether you're an introvert or extrovert is irrelevant when it comes to the big picture. It's what you do with it that matters.

How many of us are petrified of change? How many of us are petrified of growth because we think it is change? And how many of the greatest things that we've ever done were easy to do? How often does genuine growth and advancement come from staying inside our comfort zones? And more importantly, how often do we use other people's shortcomings as excuses to accept our own shortcomings, instead of actually working on them?

Wow! I don't I've ever read such a poignant post on this forum.

 

[MrME]

Just a thought on that.... That particular statement --- I feel that way. I occasionally feel guilt for not "keeping in touch" with people. I know it might sound bad, but I usually only talk to people if it benefits me somehow. (This means people other than family and my select few friends.) Unless I need to be talking to them, or helping them out, learning something from them, etc, I don't talk to them.

So, is that pure selfishness on my part? Or is this guilt something I should ignore?

Pure selfishness to me suggests that you're willing to step on other people to get what you want, with no regard for their well-being. As long as you're not actively harming others for personal gain, then you shouldn't feel guilty. Remember that everybody has their own shit to deal with, so you're probably not very high on a lot of people's lists of priorities. There will be exceptions, of course (romantic partners, family), but I think you'll find most people won't take it personally.

 

[MrME]

It was never the intention of my argument to state that Extraverts should become Introverts, or visa versa, I was merely commenting upon the ability for a person to choose to do so. Balance is the key in most instances.

But, doesn't a "choice" also suggest an ability to actively change?

 

[Snowey1210]

But, doesn't a "choice" also suggest an ability to actively change?

Yes, I guess it depends how you perceive the input that you have with regards the "choices" that occur within your life. Are "choices" predetermined by your biology? Or do you have the power to actively change your life in such a way, so as to cause your brain to adapt to these changes? For example, if I as an "Extravert" choose to spend more time alone, and internalise my thinking more (as painful as this might be), can I change who I am?

This really isn't isn't clear with our current understandings regarding the brain, however there is no doubt that there are some aspects of our brain that are fixed, whilst others can be manipulated, and it is my personal belief that Extraversion/Introversion is one of these. Making a "choice" isn't always congruent with changing oneself however I still believe that it is something that we can consciously choose to do if we apply ourselves the required amount (which will no doubt vary from person to person).