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child abuse, alcholism, and personality "type"

velocity

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
477
MBTI Type
epic
theory:
i've noticed certain patterns in myself and others who have grown up in severely repressive or fucked up unstable homes. for example, a rescuing "nature" that i rationally repress because i know it will get me nowhere, i recognize attraction to certain individuals who will not be ultimately beneficial to my sanity or emotions, and i analyze it, compartmentalize it, and move on (although the process is not easy, it has gotten easier). i think that growing up in a family where you have to repress your emotions and thoughts and constantly be on your toes / walking on eggshells / protective causes a disposition certain mbti types (ixfj's, for example), emotionally and in ways of processing information. it may cause a heightened yearning for understanding, for intimacy, love, or a loss of identity or an over-identification with unhealthy individuals/sadness/pain/loss, a need for security, and unhealthy boundaries, etc. regardless of whether this applies to you, come and share any insights or struggles you may have.
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
My experiences sort of made me cynical about people. I never felt I had the power to rescue anyone, I felt I could only control my own behavior--- I just wanted to isolate myself from insanity and to be very, very careful who I let into my life.
 

velocity

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
477
MBTI Type
epic
My experiences sort of made me cynical about people. I never felt I had the power to rescue anyone, I felt I could only control my own behavior--- I just wanted to isolate myself from insanity and to be very, very careful who I let into my life.

my experiences caused me to become very over-identified with my mother to the point where all my needs were submitted to her emotional whims. any protest to her arbitrary rules and methods of punishment were not tolerated and my natural impulses and passions were not allowed to thrive. growing up, my whole focus was on survival.
.. it caused me to become very understanding of people, because i knew how tough it is navigate through the sea of overwhelming emotions and circumstances in our bizarre and tiny timeline lives. i was very focused on harmony and friendship and creating a warm atmosphere where people are free to express their emotions. my priorities have changed since then and now, and as an individual who is primarily driven by her thought and "logical precision" as well as a certain situational "objectivity" - i struggle with balancing certain emotional and intellectual pulls that at times are very incongruous. i'm doing pretty well, though. introspective quests for identity and meaning are so elusive, it's best for me not to seek specific answers.
i've grown up some, and have improved on my sense of boundary and certain self-destructive tendencies a lot, but it remains a great big journey ahead for me :)
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
MBTI Type
xNFP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
theory:
i've noticed certain patterns in myself and others who have grown up in severely repressive or fucked up unstable homes. for example, a rescuing "nature" that i rationally repress because i know it will get me nowhere, i recognize attraction to certain individuals who will not be ultimately beneficial to my sanity or emotions, and i analyze it, compartmentalize it, and move on (although the process is not easy, it has gotten easier). i think that growing up in a family where you have to repress your emotions and thoughts and constantly be on your toes / walking on eggshells / protective causes a disposition certain mbti types (ixfj's, for example), emotionally and in ways of processing information. it may cause a heightened yearning for understanding, for intimacy, love, or a loss of identity or an over-identification with unhealthy individuals/sadness/pain/loss, a need for security, and unhealthy boundaries, etc. regardless of whether this applies to you, come and share any insights or struggles you may have.

That sounds reasonable, but probably not only with IXFJs....:huh:
 

BerberElla

12 and a half weeks
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,725
MBTI Type
infp
That sounds reasonable, but probably not only with IXFJs....:huh:


Yeah, I think it can happen to any child with any personality type, we just learn how to cope with it in different ways.

I have an esfp freind who was abused as a child in an alcoholic household and she has never withdrawn away from contact with others just to protect herself, whereas I have having experienced abuse as a child too.
 

velocity

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2008
Messages
477
MBTI Type
epic
That sounds reasonable, but probably not only with IXFJs....:huh:

you're absolutely right, and i agree. i was providing one example, based on the behavior of friends, past boyfriends, myself, and general observations of people and type theory. especially with the isfj investment in the past, it reproduces the same relationship dynamics. i read in some of the temperament descriptions of xsfj and xnfj tendencies to get into unhealthy, care-dependent relationships with alcoholics, for instance. or, the exact opposite - heavy distrust and avoidance of relationships. both lack a healthy sense of discernment. theoretically, i would expect to find these same patterns less observable, however, in a rational temperament, who has, in my opinion better resources to deal with cognitive dissonance or self-destructive impulses when it comes to recognizing patterns. :D i may be completely wrong. i reserve the right to call myself knucklehead!
 

Clownmaster

EvanTheClown (ETC)
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
965
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
2
i had an odd childhood. i was raised between 3 homes, and neglected. neglect is a form of abuse, and having a parent with alcoholism I figured this thread will fit me well. I guess I just feel like talking about my past and how its affected me (and my brother)?

my dad: barely functioning alcoholic, completely neglected my brother and I, but is fully ready to take credit for how well we've been doing for ourselves. At his house, there were no rules and we raised ourselves. Going to bed hungry on a dirty couch, untrusting of the drug-addict adults living with my dad or other random people who might have been sleeping there for the night wasn't uncommon. We were usually the ones who locked up the house. At 8 years old, I was terrorizing the neighborhood, acting out, probably a cry for help.

my mom: manic depressive who tried to hide her substance use from us. there would be periods of time during which "she was raising us" that we'd spend a week at our grandparents for her to "straighten her life out" AKA do drugs without having kids around. I didn't come to this conclusion until I was older of course, I was probably 12 when i found out she smoked pot, her drug of choice. other than that, childhood with her was full of yelling. she'd ask us to do things instead of telling us to, but if we didn't do them, she'd bitch and scream. and each of her husbands or boyfriends have been complete redneck assholes who scream just as much as she does and make fools of themselves.

my grandparents: the stable environment. I probably spent more time being raised here than the other 2 homes, though its in a child's nature to model themselves after their parents as the primary caretakers so I've had issues trying to convert to a normal person. more on that after i explain this environment. My grandparents: caring loving responsible people, who are out of sync with the times. They encouraged us to do well in school, not to be swearing at a young age, and to be progressive. Yet they're reluctant to change, and with how fast the world and technology is growing, thats the environment they're constantly around.


Basically, my brother being an ISTJ and firstborn, he was more like a father to me than my actual dad, and I had some help in raising him as well. We've always relied on each other, and are extremely close and get along very well. We didn't really fight much as kids, we were too busy reassuring the other that things would be okay.
Having not received the attention we desired as young children at home, when we went to school, we received recognition for what we could accomplish. This led both of us to strive for excellence at a young age and become quite intelligent. Later, after growing up some, we lost this determination for excellence but still carry the gift of intelligence. These have been probably the only positive outcomes of our childhood.

depending on the interest people have for this post, i could post more about the subject, particularly answering the post right before this one. i kinda think this is big enough for one post, and if i wanted to talk about the damage, that'd be another little wall of text.
 
G

garbage

Guest
I had a lot of misanthropy to get over before I could exercise my extroversion and figure out that I actually care about and empathize with other people.
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
MBTI Type
xNFP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I had a lot of misanthropy to get over before I could exercise my extroversion and figure out that I actually care about and empathize with other people.

I think a lot of people do - either that or they need to find people that they can actually connect WITH - which isn't always easy. :huh:
 

CheekyIrishTinker

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
24
MBTI Type
ENFP
I've ummed and ahhhed about daring to raise this subject here, because of my own personal scenario but now that someone else has instigated this topic I feel it's the right time to share my thoughts and also get some more insight on this issue from those of you who are clearly more knowledgable on this personality typing business than I am.

So, my question has always been...

To what extent do our childhood experiences influence our 'true' personality type?

As in, I understand that it is our very experience growing up as a child that is said to shape our type but if you have grown up in an abusive and unhealthy environment, how can you be sure that deep down you're extroverted and love to talk to people and really want to connect with them but because of negative experiences it's simply a major lack of: confidence, self-esteem,feeling of worth....that is holding you back from interacting with others and therefore leading you to believe that you CAN'T talk to people and prefer to be alone and feel more of an introvert as a result.

I'm already confusing myself as far as what point I'm trying to make or what question I'm asking but it feels like it's the old nature vs nurture issue??

If I'd grown up in a different environment, ie positive, warm, encouraging and loving....would I be more comfortable around new people and express my extroverted side more easily. I guess I feel like E vs I is my biggest area of confusion and wonder how much of this is based on and shaped by my not very happy early years.

There's this huge surge of interest in and enthusiasm for connecting with other people inside me and yet I just can't let it out...call it fear, dread or any other negative connotation associated with just letting go and doing it.

With people I know and feel 'safe' with I'm just bubbling over with words and stories and self expression so feel like an extrovert and yet when faced with a party scenario I'm def not a brave mingler/mixer flitting from new face to new face. Oh, I'm going to shut up now before I go round in circles.

Any thoughts on this from you lovely insightful folk is very welcome as always.

Cheers guys x
 

Quinlan

Intriguing....
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
3,004
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
9w1
Very interesting CheekyIrish, I have thought about this a lot. To me, if you are using mbti to truly understand who you are and understand who others really are, then you have to dig down beneath any conditioning that's gone on over the years. Essentially if something has been "forced" from outside of you then it can never be a natural preference, and natural preferences are what type is about.
 

CheekyIrishTinker

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
24
MBTI Type
ENFP
Very interesting CheekyIrish, I have thought about this a lot. To me, if you are using mbti to truly understand who you are and understand who others really are, then you have to dig down beneath any conditioning that's gone on over the years.

Hey Quinlan

I guess I'm reluctant to define myself by MBTI type, especially as I'm still getting to grips with all the variants but I'm def open to understanding myself better via this typing tool.

Essentially if something has been "forced" from outside of you then it can never be a natural preference, and natural preferences are what type is about.

I definitely agree with this, I guess it's just a case of figuring out what the natural preferences were. Tricksy business but fascinating nonetheless.

Feel like an ENFP on inside but prob appear as INFP on outside :doh:
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,145
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Type tends to be reflected in the particular coping skills a child might choose between in order to deal with a prolonged emotionally dangerous home environment. There's still no hard and fast rule, each type tends to choose from among a few different ones, and it is tailored specifically to the family composition and the specifics of the [unconsciously] perceived danger.

For example, Karen Horney proposed the three methods people use for dealing with anxiety -- moving towards (placation), moving against (aggression), and moving away (withdrawal). For each type, we could probably arrange these general responses in terms of most likely to least likely, and see a general probability of each.

Again, the specifics of the situation as well as the strength of each function in that individual can impact which one seems most viable to the child (for example, a stronger introvert might lean more towards withdrawal, while an introvert with more Feeling sense might move more towards placation as a preferred strategy)...

...but they also contribute to the "family roles" that have been popularized in addiction families (the good child / hero, the clown, the lost soul, the fixer, the scapegoat, etc.)
 

heart

heart on fire
Joined
May 19, 2007
Messages
8,456
There are previous threads about dysfunctional families and all the different people here give their stories, probably a lot of good matieral there to glean more info about the different reactions of the different types, there was a good one on relationships with mothers but I can't seem to find it now:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/relationships/12513-confessions-good-child.html

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/relationships/4848-my-family-so-dysfunctional.html

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/relationships/3789-impossible-people.html
 

CheekyIrishTinker

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
24
MBTI Type
ENFP
Hey Jennifer and Heart

thanks so much for your posts and links, would be very interested to find the one about relationships with mothers. have just read a great book about how your first 6 years shapes your response and coping mechanisms etc, a must read for anyone who wants to understand themselves better in relation to family environment etc.

It's called They F**k You Up by Oliver James if anyone's interested!
 

Valhallahereicome

New member
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
132
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
3w7
^^^That sounds super interesting. I've always heard that the first 6 years plays a big role, though I'm wondering how much the book helps in practice since most people can't remember much about the first 6 years of their lives.

And I too would love to read that thread on relationships with mothers.
 

Bamboo

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
2,689
MBTI Type
XXFP
How I see it (or, me in a nutshell):
All behavior is adaptive for the environment it developed in. There is no such thing as maladaptive behavior - you make choices based on the knowledge you have to function in the environment that surrounds you.

During childhood, or any time you are in one place for a long time, you adapt to your environment. (Still applies if you moved around a lot - adaptation to moving around).

When you treat new environments like the old ones, problems may occur - or you may flourish better than the rest with your skill set. Hit or miss. Focus on the differences between the two environments and fix problems. Accrue benefits off of sunk costs - put yourself in an environment where you can use your existing skills. See things in terms of effectiveness. Everything can be described in terms of it's relative level of adaptation to a certain environment/task.

Run a diagnostic.
How effective is a behavior in this environment? What does this produce? Do you want this?

Don't take it personally. It isn't.

I would hesitate to call my childhood abusive, but it wasn't white picket fences either.

My adaptation: adaptation. I think I'm good at it.

Hope this is useful.
 

CheekyIrishTinker

New member
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
24
MBTI Type
ENFP
^^^That sounds super interesting. I've always heard that the first 6 years plays a big role, though I'm wondering how much the book helps in practice since most people can't remember much about the first 6 years of their lives.

And I too would love to read that thread on relationships with mothers.

Without turning this thread into a book review I thought I'd just share a few more nuggets from it in response to post above.

As most of can't remember the details of our first 6 yrs the book does give useful pointers for asking relatives or people who would have been there to give an account of how your parents/carers interacted with you/cared for you or not etc. It's good in that it gives specific ways to pose the questions so that if you ask your parent(s) themselves that they don't feel under attack about their parenting skills as a result of what you're trying to find out etc.

Anyway, it is def useful if only because it gets you to look at what you can remember and see where your views and behaviours fit with common 'types' as understood by psychologists (author is clinical psychologist).

I guess it always helps to see what you know/suspect/believe in print, helps to confirm things!

Ps also interesting as it profiles some famous peeps as far as how their parents impacted their future behaviour, notably Dubya, Prince Charles and Woody Allen...very interesting stuff!
 
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