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Random thoughts on Intuition and Sensing

Travo7

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I was visiting my mother (who is an iNtuitive type) the other day for breakfast, and on the way out she commented on how beautiful the day was.

"Do you see the trees and the sky? It's like a monet or something." She said.

Despite it being cold, rainy, and foggy, I could totally relate to what she was saying. I have deeply felt this way on many an occasion, where beauty seems to inspire your imagination etc... My father (ESTJ), on the other hand, simply replied:


"Mmhmm, right. Well, see you later," in a rather dismissive tone, and left for work.


She told me later that, at the office, she commented on the same thing with her boss and good friend (SJ, I suspect) along with her husband, a philosophy professor (NT, I believe).

Her boss smiled somewhat condescendingly, and uttered a quick "Whatever," while the professor's eyes lit up:


"Ahh, exactly! I know exactly what you mean."



The point of this story: This sounds, to me at least, like an example of the iNtuitive way of thinking clashing with the world of the Sensor's. For example, my dad (ESTJ) would look out the window and think about the driving conditions, how cold it was, which coat he would use, and whether or not he would have to leave early for work, due to the fog. Something along those lines. However, this morning my mother (ENFP) saw something way beyond what was actually there, via her imagination/creativity.

I'm not trying to absolutize anything here, for I'm sure Sensors have thoughts like these too, nor am I saying one type is better than the other, but in general:

Do any iNtuitive types relate at all to this? Or have this kind of response from Sensors when you open up to them?

What about you Sensors?
 

Pancreas

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Well, I’m not sure how deeply you and your mother were feeling about the whole thing, but beauty just invokes an appreciation for beauty in me. I see something beautiful and I just let myself experience it for what it is. Sometimes the driving conditions and the cold are just part of the whole experience.

I’m completely unsure if I answered your question or not, or if there was a question or... :huh:

:doh:
 

BlueScreen

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Actually this was one of the first similarities I noticed with an INFJ I know. We both look off into the distance. Watch the sunset in the background when something else is centre stage. Beauty doesn't pass by wasted or unnoticed. It might even be an F thing rather than a sensing-intuition thing. It gets a life, a deeper value. The beauty isn't just viewed, it is in harmony with you and alive. It isn't appreciated or captured, it is experienced.

That just reminded me of a line in one of my poems. "I could see a million sunsets but never feel their beauty." It actually never occurred to me that for most people this might be the norm rather than a tragedy. It's amazing how you grow up thinking everyone sees the same way as you, no matter what type you are. Been one of the biggest eye openers on this forum for me.

Well, I’m not sure how deeply you and your mother were feeling about the whole thing, but beauty just invokes an appreciation for beauty in me. I see something beautiful and I just let myself experience it for what it is. Sometimes the driving conditions and the cold are just part of the whole experience.

Actually ISTPs I seem to feel an affiliation with on appreciation of things. I followed one most of my life growing up. You find so much wonder in the world. So many reasons to explore. I think my sister is an ISTP at least... A true dreamer without bounds. Combined we made a pretty awesome pair.
 

sarah

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I was visiting my mother (who is an iNtuitive type) the other day for breakfast, and on the way out she commented on how beautiful the day was.

"Do you see the trees and the sky? It's like a monet or something." She said.

Despite it being cold, rainy, and foggy, I could totally relate to what she was saying. I have deeply felt this way on many an occasion, where beauty seems to inspire your imagination etc... My father (ESTJ), on the other hand, simply replied:


"Mmhmm, right. Well, see you later," in a rather dismissive tone, and left for work.


She told me later that, at the office, she commented on the same thing with her boss and good friend (SJ, I suspect) along with her husband, a philosophy professor (NT, I believe).

Her boss smiled somewhat condescendingly, and uttered a quick "Whatever," while the professor's eyes lit up:


"Ahh, exactly! I know exactly what you mean."



The point of this story: This sounds, to me at least, like an example of the iNtuitive way of thinking clashing with the world of the Sensor's. For example, my dad (ESTJ) would look out the window and think about the driving conditions, how cold it was, which coat he would use, and whether or not he would have to leave early for work, due to the fog. Something along those lines. However, this morning my mother (ENFP) saw something way beyond what was actually there, via her imagination/creativity.

I'm not trying to absolutize anything here, for I'm sure Sensors have thoughts like these too, nor am I saying one type is better than the other, but in general:

Do any iNtuitive types relate at all to this? Or have this kind of response from Sensors when you open up to them?

What about you Sensors?


No, it's not an S vs N thing. Why do people persist in believing that all Sensory-preferring people are these total non-artistic phillistines? I don't understand how you can take something that's obviously connected with Sensing and put it in the Intuition camp.

Noticing the beauty of your surroundings and thinking it reminds you of a piece of art IS SENSING. That's what it's all about! Thinking that the scenery outside your window looks like a Monet painting involves sensory memory and sensory awareness, and has nothing to do with intuition.

And yes, those of us who prefer Sensing and who like art and beauty do that all the time.
 

Lady_X

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i do that all the time too but i think it just has to do with having an artistic eye more then anything else....i'm constantly seeing images as artwork...someone sitting on a bench...or a lil girl swinging in a swing...the barren tree in the field...it drives me nuts because i want to capture it all...i need to always have my camera with me i guess.
 

wolfy

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Noticing the beauty of your surroundings and thinking it reminds you of a piece of art IS SENSING.

Things I see around me often remind me of other works of art.
Especially vegetables. :D
 

sarah

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Things I see around me often remind me of other works of art.
Especially vegetables. :D


There's actually a children's picure book of scenes created entirely out of vegetables.

What does kohlrabi reminds you of? :shock: It's always looked vaguely sci-fi to me.
 

Cimarron

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For example, my dad (ESTJ) would look out the window and think about the driving conditions, how cold it was, which coat he would use, and whether or not he would have to leave early for work, due to the fog. Something along those lines.

What about you Sensors?
I think your dad's mentality, as you put it here, is strongly shaped by the fact that a daily job is part of his routine. I'm not in the "workforce" yet, and I don't think about stuff like that, because it doesn't really affect me directly. But once I am, maybe I will.

There's also the association in our culture that:

dark, rain, cold = bad, sad
bright, sunny, warm = good, happy

and I bet Intuitives are just as aware of those associations as Sensors, but with Sensors maybe it's harder to avoid noticing it, and avoid having it influence our thoughts and opinions. Maybe.


Sarah said:
Why do people persist in believing that all Sensory-preferring people are these total non-artistic phillistines?
I don't think that's what they intended. Maybe they are approaching the problem backwards, though. Identifying what they like and do, then assigning that to Intuition and the opposite to Sensing. Sometimes.
 
Last edited:

Kestrel

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I think the S vs. N divide is not the great chasm many people make it out to be.

I believe when an S type looks at something, they are more likely to see it for what it truly is. (Edit: actually "what it truly is" is so subjective.. but they tend to notice environmental details more readily and easily, which likely gives a certain clarity N's don't have) But an N type sees "what could be".

However, this is not always the case. S types look for possibilities and N types also look for what really is there.

Sensing = Being attuned to reality, the here and now
Intuition = Able to see abstract possibilities, looking to the future

The key is integrating the two: Taking abstract ideas and applying them to the real world. Or looking at the real world and seeing untapped potential.
 

nolla

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Noticing the beauty of your surroundings and thinking it reminds you of a piece of art IS SENSING. That's what it's all about! Thinking that the scenery outside your window looks like a Monet painting involves sensory memory and sensory awareness, and has nothing to do with intuition.

I think it has something to do with intuition. You are right that it CAN very well be sensing, but the link between the scene and the Monet painting comes very close to intuition. In this case it is impossible to say, really, because we don't know how she saw the scene.

I have often looked at a landscape and been in a way sucked into it so that something that wasn't really that beautiful becomes beautiful. Maybe that is what it looks like when you watch something through intuition.

I do think that Travo's example is more like an F thing.
 

sarah

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I think it has something to do with intuition. You are right that it CAN very well be sensing, but the link between the scene and the Monet painting comes very close to intuition. In this case it is impossible to say, really, because we don't know how she saw the scene.

I have often looked at a landscape and been in a way sucked into it so that something that wasn't really that beautiful becomes beautiful. Maybe that is what it looks like when you watch something through intuition.

I do think that Travo's example is more like an F thing.

But intuition is about removing yourself from tangible reality and thinking of abstractions. Sensing is about noticing tangible reality, as well as recalling to memory other tangible realities (like paintings by Monet). If you're actually noticing scenery through a window rather than thinking of something totally unrelated to it, then you're using a sensing function. This is a good example of how it's impossible to do purely one or the other.

I'm amazed at the number of people here who think they are using an intuition function when actually they are using a sensing function. Sensing does NOT equals grumbling about the weather rather than choosing to see a rainy day as beautiful. I mean, c'mon! If this is what people believe, then no wonder there's so much Sensor-bashing on this forum. You can't seriously take everything that's wonderful about having a preference for Sensing and reassign it to "Intuition" and still make sense (and not offend people who prefer Sensing and who KNOW better). It just doesn't work that way.
 

sarah

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I think the S vs. N divide is not the great chasm many people make it out to be.

I believe when an S type looks at something, they are more likely to see it for what it truly is. (Edit: actually "what it truly is" is so subjective.. but they tend to notice environmental details more readily and easily, which likely gives a certain clarity N's don't have) But an N type sees "what could be".

However, this is not always the case. S types look for possibilities and N types also look for what really is there.

Sensing = Being attuned to reality, the here and now
Intuition = Able to see abstract possibilities, looking to the future

The key is integrating the two: Taking abstract ideas and applying them to the real world. Or looking at the real world and seeing untapped potential.

It's obvious that the people who think there's a great big chasm between those who prefer Sensing and those who prefer Intuition just want desperately to believe that because it makes them feel superior. And they're the ones going around diminishing what having a preference for Sensing is all about, because, again, it makes them feel superior, which is all they seemingly want to use type theory for anyway. They don't care whether or not they're accurate. Frankly, it disgusts me.
 

nolla

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Why are you angry? I never bashed any sensors.

But intuition is about removing yourself from tangible reality and thinking of abstractions. Sensing is about noticing tangible reality, as well as recalling to memory other tangible realities (like paintings by Monet). If you're actually noticing scenery through a window rather than thinking of something totally unrelated to it, then you're using a sensing function. This is a good example of how it's impossible to do purely one or the other.

I understood that intuition is about making connections. Not only about thinking something totally different and abstract. If I connect fog to monet, it isn't purely sensing.
 

sarah

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Why are you angry? I never bashed any sensors.



I understood that intuition is about making connections. Not only about thinking something totally different and abstract. If I connect fog to monet, it isn't purely sensing.

Then dang, every single person who prefers Sensing does that too. So there's no difference at all between you and me. There -- how's that? Forget Intuition -- forget Sensing -- they don't exist. You and I do both to an equal degree. We can all throw type theory away now because it's useless.

And yes, it's deeply insulting and just plain WRONG, this whole suggestion that Sensing means only noticing depressing things and never beauty!! And yes, that does feel like bashing to me -- it totally goes against everything I live for.
 

nolla

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And yes, it's deeply insulting, this whole suggestion that Sensing means only noticing depressing things and never beauty!!

Did I say that? I think I didn't. Sensing sees everything, now doesn't it..? Also the beauty.

And yes, I'm very angry.

Well, I can't say I'm sorry, since I have no idea how I am responsible for that. We both obviously use both functions, I even said that you are right that it can very well be sensing, and after that I said that I think this is most likely an F thing.

You are barking at wrong tree, fox.

Oh, and BTW, the "chasm" you referred to, it won't go away if you scare off the people from having a discussion about it. Sure. it is good you make your opinion clear, but if you could tone it down, maybe we could actually get some understanding out of this.
 

sarah

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Did I say that? I think I didn't. Sensing sees everything, now doesn't it..? Also the beauty.

No, the original poster said that. And I'm saying that Sensing does actually mean equating fog with Monet paintings, since you have to use your senses to see and remember both the fog and the Monet painting. No intuition. Intuition is abstract and non-concrete.


Well, I can't say I'm sorry, since I have no idea how I am responsible for that. We both obviously use both functions, I even said that you are right that it can very well be sensing, and after that I said that I think this is most likely an F thing.

You are barking wrong tree, fox.


I wouldn't put it past someone who prefers Thinking and who likes art to say the same thing. It's the sort of activity that anyone who is tuned in to noticing natural beauty and appreciating art could do. Obviously the dad in the OP was just a boring, dull, non-artistic person who has zero appreciation for beauty -- and that does NOT --repeat NOT-- equal having a preference for Sensing!
 

nolla

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No, the original poster said that.

So, I am like collateral damage?

And I'm saying that Sensing does actually mean equating fog with Monet paintings, since you have to use your senses to see and remember both the fog and the Monet painting. No intuition. Intuition is abstract and non-concrete.

So, you really are saying that the process does not (and can not?) involve intuition at all, not one bit, nada? I hope someone else can confirm this, because if it is so, I need to go re-read what these functions are about.

I wouldn't put it past someone who prefers Thinking and who likes art to say the same thing. It's the sort of activity that anyone who is tuned in to noticing natural beauty and appreciating art could do.

Yeah, anyone who is tuned in. The idea with the type theory is that not everyone is equally tuned into this thing. I think there has been studies about types and different sort of art, and if I remember right, there we're many differences between the types and the appreciation of art.
 

frenchkiss

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Since Si has to do with memory, wouldn't seeing scenery and relating it to a painting you've seen be an example of Si?

In contrast, I think if I were using Fi+Ne while looking at scenery, I might take in the vibe of the scenery and relate it to an emotion I've been experiencing due to a relationship and then use that association to try to come up with possible solutions in dealing with that relationship. Or something like that.

If Sensors never made associations, then how would they be able to appreciate art at all? A painting would just be a bunch of globs of color in the shape of a house or something. It wouldn't have any significance. I don't think you need to be an N to see that significance.
 

sarah

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Since Si has to do with memory, wouldn't seeing scenery and relating it to a painting you've seen be an example of Si?

In contrast, I think if I were using Fi+Ne while looking at scenery, I might take in the vibe of the scenery and relate it to an emotion I've been experiencing due to a relationship and then use that association to try to come up with possible solutions in dealing with that relationship. Or something like that.

If Sensors never made associations, then how would they be able to appreciate art at all? A painting would just be a bunch of globs of color in the shape of a house or something. It wouldn't have any significance. I don't think you need to be an N to see that significance.


Right, thank you, I'm not saying Sensors don't make associations. I'm saying that noticing beauty and making associations is not related to having a preference for Intuition, as the OP apparently wants to believe.
 

sarah

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So, I am like collateral damage?



So, you really are saying that the process does not (and can not?) involve intuition at all, not one bit, nada? I hope someone else can confirm this, because if it is so, I need to go re-read what these functions are about.



Yeah, anyone who is tuned in. The idea with the type theory is that not everyone is equally tuned into this thing. I think there has been studies about types and different sort of art, and if I remember right, there we're many differences between the types and the appreciation of art.


I'm saying that it's not an indicator of preference. I'm astonished at how many people believe that doing sensory activities indicates a preference for intuition. It's ridiculous. It's as if I went around saying that my spiritual life and my ability to talk about abstract topics is proof of a preference for Sensing.

I really can't stomach anyone who believes that in order to appreciate art, you have to prefer intuition. It's offensive and untrue. Anyone can appreciate art, and noticing "Monet-ness" in the world around you does not equal having a preference for intuition.

In fact, I believe Monet was almost certainly an ISFP, NOT an "N" (read a biography of him if you doubt that.)

If you really and truly don't understand what's so offensive, try empathizing with ISFPs. Then notice how much you like being told you're incapable of the very things that you most certainly CAN do and DO do.
 
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