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  1. #11
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Apr 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    1) Literature, Art, Moviews, and even video games almost seem to follow formulas, even when people are trying to be original.
    True. This is an interesting topic. Half of the reasons for this can be explained easily, as consciously done things in order to make the story more marketable. But the other half....
    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    2) If one takes the time to imagine ones own "spirit guide," he or she is remarkably consistent in representation.
    I have never tried to imagine what my spirit guide might look like.
    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    4) Dreams that repeatedly crop-up during a period of time, have a remarkable consistancy in theme.
    This is true. There are quite a number of themes, though, in my case, versus only a few. Some of the repeat themes for me are also classic themes for others as well.

    ( 1. ) Being at a school, and going to a class that I have avoided for a long time, and then finding out that there is going to be a test that day, for example. Me hoping that I can "play it by ear" and get through the test that way.

    ( 2. ) Sometimes I attempt to play an instrument this way also, in a dream, and amazingly am able to play simple tunes on it, all the while believing that I will screw up at any moment, in my improvisations.

    ( 3. ) Being at a school and feeling as though I have missed some technicalities, and so will not graduate when originally expected to do so.

    ( 4. ) Flying to various places through a will power, versus flapping my arms, or having wings. Floating instead of falling, is related to this. Occasionally even bouncing over large distances, via trampoline action on telephone wires or other things around. ( A sub-theme is that whenever I fly, I must always worry about these overhead wires. )

    ( 5. ) Being in a museum on a tour, and sneaking away from the tour group to go off on my own into hallways that lead underground eventually, and morphing from being examples of Egyptian tombs, for example, into being actual large places where one seems to have left the "museum" concept behind. Then I am being chased by mummies through long tunnels that branch confusingly like mazes.

    ( 6. ) Being at a job where I am not certain what is expected of me, or even what I am supposed to do, and feeling like many of my co-workers are possibly doing the same, but unwilling to admit it. Strange "office politics" that come out of these places. Contrast this with the theme of being under a lot of pressure to find such a job, but wandering around with no transportation and no luck in getting such work for sure. The urge to just say "fuck it" to the whole mess and just go somewhere and do what I want - merely "going through the motions" of having done so.

    ( 7. ) Going back to school and having to find off campus housing, which involves sharing living space with eccentric strangers.

    ( 8. ) Going across the country to California, and or some other long trip, and the funny places and people one meets along the way.

    ( 9. ) Encountering places that I have seen before in dreams but don't remember that well. Trying to drive on busy roads and not get lost, based on such vague memories of the "map". I recognize the theme Ygolo mentioned, of being in a vehicle I do not have control over. Typically I will have "partial control", though. I am trying to drive as though with my feet in the back seat, with access to the steering wheel but not the brakes or gas. Or having access to various pedals and buttons but not knowing what they do.

    ( 10. ) Trying to make sense of trains and train schedules at stations along various routes, so as not to miss connecting excursions. Getting off at the wrong station or missing my train. Lacking a proper ticket. Finding myself in dodgey areas of a city, and either hurrying through them, or finding interesting markets and antique/art stores not far from there. Being pursued by thugs in slums.

    ( 11. ) Wandering around in buildings that are so enormous that one can easily get lost in them. Having people pursue me in such places. Sometimes these are hospitals that seem mostly empty, but may have scattered weird patients in them. Sometimes they are prisons. Sometimes ( if smaller ) they are schools that I went to as a child, that I am coming back to see with adult eyes, and with the benefit of knowing "secret passages" and "janitor shortcuts" etc. Sometimes these are department stores that are all connected, as in a mall. There are escalators and elevators in the more modern buildings, where I am entertaining working. There are only stairwells in the scarier buildings. Going down towards level 19 or whatever, below ground, and having that "Outer Limits" feeling creeping up on me...One can hear big machines throbbing in the background, perhaps involved in the power plant...

    I could go on and on, but I know I am notorious for long posts.

    I don't connect my dreams with my experiences of synchronicity. I have had many lucid dreams. Also many dreams that were only partially lucid. Not so many of these lucid dreams as I get older. The dreams that are pure lucidity are not that fun after the initial novelty wears off. Being "God" becomes boring. I prefer dreams that can surprise me, which is maybe why I don't have that many lucid dreams anymore.

    I agree that the placebo effect is interesting, but I don't see a connection with my dreams. There is also the reverse placebo effect, where people think bad things are happening to them because they've been told that they might encounter such things. ( "Side effects" of medication are a good example of this. )

    An interesting writer that comes to mind, considering the questions you have in this thread, is Rupert Sheldrake.

    I've had only a little experience with NLP and Ericksonian hypnosis theories.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

  2. #12
    Senior Member plaguerat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    In recent days, I have been impressed by the consistency of my own subjective reality, as well as those of others.

    I've recently had the opportunity to listen to a fairly large number of people who are going through psychological problems tell their stories. What is remarkable to me is how consistent people's subjective representations are.

    Consider the following phenomenon:
    1) Literature, Art, Moviews, and even video games almost seem to follow formulas, even when people are trying to be original.
    2) If one takes the time to imagine ones own "spirit guide," he or she is remarkably consistent in representation.
    3) Some people have very long term trends and desires that plague them in rather consistent forms.
    4) Dreams that repeatedly crop-up during a period of time, have a remarkable consistancy in theme.
    5) Synchronicity is a phenomenon many people experience, and taking note of it is often quite beneficial to people in that these moments reveal a lot about themselves.
    6) "The" placebo effect has very real healing properties. Even Shaman remedies with no scientific basis often work because of some placebo effect.

    Psychology may not be as "scientific" as many other subjects that purport to be science, but perhaps that is the wrong thing to try to be.

    Anyone else believe the study of one's own subjective reality, as well as that of others can yeild great insights in themselves?

    If so, let us explore parts of each others subjective worlds (whatever you're willing to share).

    Have you tried lucid dreaming? What images come-up on a regular basis?

    What characters in literature, TV, movies, etc. do you identify with?

    Have you tried any NLP imaging? If so what have you tried? What were the results?

    Imagine a "sheild" that you can put around yourself or others when you feel either you or them require protection. What does it look/feel/sound/smell like?

    How about your "container" for feelings when the become overwhelming?

    How about your "future self"? What does he or she look/feel/sound/smell like when you imagine him/her?

    Have you ever given shape, color, smell, bodily location to your feelings? If so how did the feelings represent themselves to you?

    How consistent were these things? What is the symbolism? What do they reveal to you?
    first of all, this is very nice.

    secondly, I think all life has some sort of underlying algorythm, which is obviously entirely too complex for anything to even begin to comprehend, and yet we sense some consistencies somewhere within ourselvs.

    -I've tried lucid dreaming, work(ed) with dreams alot (the dream journal, interpretation, whole shebang). I've had like two actual dreams where I'm fully aware I'm dreaming anc can control it. None of them were remarkably symbolic of anything to me, however.

    - I usially attatch myself to the character that ends up dying. Haha, I usually don't mind though, because their death is what made the plot work and the story have a lasting effect. I also like the cynical bastards that no one likes, simply because they're the most creative in their logic.

    - I don't have too many "feelings" that can be called overhwelming. I guess this is attributed to being an INTJ and growing up how I did. I just get over things or work them out logically. I love to paint, I love art, and I'm not a straight-line person at all, so the only pictures, movies, stories, etc. that really capture my affection and respect are the ones that make me feel. WHich is why they call me depressing.

    - also, I am a whole-hearted believer in the placebo effect. I have trained myself, in a way, to use such things as focus and actual pain enjoyment to get rid of discomfort at the least and even, I've been told, colds and such. Really it comes into play when I get migranes or just hurt places in general. I tell myself, when I begin to get desperate because of the intensity of the migrane, that it feels good, I like it; I try to describe the intricacies of the pain and eventually it dies down a bit.

    and the same thing with nausia. I get car sick real bad.

    anyways, this is a really interesting post.
    "By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe."

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