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Are Emotions Unnatural?

Warm

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Messages
727
MBTI Type
ISFJ
For almost two months I have been talking to someone I thought is an INTP but tested as an INTJ. This morning he called (rare occurrence because he doesn't like human interaction) and I asked him if he slept well. He said that he doesn't understand the concept of sleeping well, that there is just sleep. He went on to ask why someone wouldn't sleep well and I told him that people could toss and turn because of some problem like home issues or sadness. That's when he started to lecture me about the irrationality of emotions, that they are taught and not natural, so people can just choose to be happy and never have a problem sleeping because of some issue.
I just let him go on because he believes that he is right no matter what.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Good grief. This fellow must lead a charmed nocturnal existence. Even without emotions, sleep can be disrupted by physical symptoms like pain or sinus congestion, or by external stimuli like loud noises, or the motion of a bed partner or pet.
 

Caribelle

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2018
Messages
57
Emotions are very natural. We're not robots, after all. I know some thinker types who pretend they don't exist, though. Either that or they don't consider them important enough to dwell on.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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sp/sx
Emotions are very natural. We're not robots, after all. I know some thinker types who pretend they don't exist, though. Either that or they don't consider them important enough to dwell on.
It's more the latter, in my experience. Relieving ourselves is quite natural, too, but I prefer not to dwell on that, either.
 

Warm

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2008
Messages
727
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Emotions are very natural. We're not robots, after all. I know some thinker types who pretend they don't exist, though. Either that or they don't consider them important enough to dwell on.
I think this INTJ doesn't dwell on feelings and sees this as something that others should be able to do as quickly as he does. I told him that others are not like him, so they must work through their emotions and he did not accept that AT ALL. So stubborn!
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
He sounds like an idiot. Btw, emotions are not used to categorize type. Nor is type used to draw conclusions about one's emotions. There are plenty of type models to access.
 

GoggleGirl17

Active member
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Messages
527
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
478
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Logic is just a tool to achieve an end. What makes logical sense depends on your objective. What is a human's objective? It's to feel a particular way, otherwise there would be nothing to motivate us to action and we would wither away. It seems because he can't personally relate to others' experiences, he can't understand why certain emotions or even physical pains would arise, but it doesn't mean these things don't exist, or that they exist for no reason.
 

Lexicon

Temporal Mechanic
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Messages
12,342
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JINX
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5w6
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sp/sx
The limbic system is an organic set of structures within the human brain that support/process emotion (among other things like memory, etc). I’d probably ask him to explain how a concrete aspect of human anatomy is ‘unnatural.’ That’s just silly.

Human emotion serves an array of natural functions (survival of the self, survival & proliferation of the species, threat detection & response, learning, list goes on). The regulation/reactions to those emotions are multidimensionally influenced by bio/psycho/social factors. Some of it is directly related to individual inborn brain structure; some is learned. Emotions in the most basic core sense are not learned, though. And that said, it should be noted that learning & conditioning are also natural processes.



Emotion plays a key role in learning & memory on both physical & cognitive levels. Mind-body connection. It’s perfectly reasonable for various experiences we have to impact the quality of our sleep, going off the OP example. For instance, a combat veteran with PTSD will have conditioned overactive startle-responses that make them wake easily from deep sleep in an alert, defensive state. This is not a voluntary act they can simply choose not to have. They are literally unconscious when it takes place.



I sense some projection/repression on his part, & perhaps a lack of general education about that big hunk of matter that occupies the top half of his head... :shock:
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
The limbic system is an organic set of structures within the human brain that support/process emotion (among other things like memory, etc). I’d probably ask him to explain how a concrete aspect of human anatomy is ‘unnatural.’ That’s just silly.

Human emotion serves an array of natural functions (survival of the self, survival & proliferation of the species, threat detection & response, learning, list goes on). The regulation/reactions to those emotions are multidimensionally influenced by bio/psycho/social factors. Some of it is directly related to individual inborn brain structure; some is learned. Emotions in the most basic core sense are not learned, though. And that said, it should be noted that learning & conditioning are also natural processes.


I sense some projection/repression on his part, & perhaps a lack of general education about that big hunk of matter that occupies the top half of his head... :shock:

What a lovely post by a lovely person.
 

Indigo Rodent

Active member
Joined
Apr 4, 2019
Messages
439
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
1w9
Sounds like a case of stunted development of further functions.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
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Messages
20,284
Logic is just a tool to achieve an end. What makes logical sense depends on your objective. What is a human's objective? It's to feel a particular way, otherwise there would be nothing to motivate us to action and we would wither away. It seems because he can't personally relate to others' experiences, he can't understand why certain emotions or even physical pains would arise, but it doesn't mean these things don't exist, or that they exist for no reason.

Yes, GoggleGirl17, you are right, logic is a tool, and a tool created by Euclid in Ancient Greece, 3,000 years ago, and used today on our mobile phones.

And we create our tools, and our tools create us, in particular logic teaches us to think in a particular way. Logic teaches us to think in a linear and sequential way.

Logic teaches us to think one step at a time, and building on each step before it.

By contrast, emotion responds to our environment, both internal and external. Emotion is not linear and sequential, rather emotion is immediate and global.

So logic saves us from the tyranny of the immediate and the global, while emotion saves us from building one step at a time, emotion saves us from the pedestrian.

So logic and emotion dance together, a marriage made in heaven.
 

EcK

The Memes Justify the End
Joined
Nov 21, 2008
Messages
7,708
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ENTP
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738
The limbic system is an organic set of structures within the human brain that support/process emotion (among other things like memory, etc). I’d probably ask him to explain how a concrete aspect of human anatomy is ‘unnatural.’ That’s just silly.

Human emotion serves an array of natural functions (survival of the self, survival & proliferation of the species, threat detection & response, learning, list goes on). The regulation/reactions to those emotions are multidimensionally influenced by bio/psycho/social factors. Some of it is directly related to individual inborn brain structure; some is learned. Emotions in the most basic core sense are not learned, though. And that said, it should be noted that learning & conditioning are also natural processes.



Emotion plays a key role in learning & memory on both physical & cognitive levels. Mind-body connection. It’s perfectly reasonable for various experiences we have to impact the quality of our sleep, going off the OP example. For instance, a combat veteran with PTSD will have conditioned overactive startle-responses that make them wake easily from deep sleep in an alert, defensive state. This is not a voluntary act they can simply choose not to have. They are literally unconscious when it takes place.



I sense some projection/repression on his part, & perhaps a lack of general education about that big hunk of matter that occupies the top half of his head... :shock:

Emotions are totally natural, although icky.
 

citizen cane

ornery ornithologist
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Sounds like this guy definitely has some issues he needs to work through.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Apr 18, 2010
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Polaris

AKA Nunki
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Apr 7, 2009
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The correct term for emotions is not, in my opinion, unnatural but supernatural. To emote is to get in touch with something beyond time and space, something eternal. What is it? No one knows, but it is always there, working behind the scenes.
 

Maou

Mythos
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Jun 20, 2018
Messages
6,117
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INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Unnatural no, but uniquely out of place... yes. Our biology hasn't caught up to our lifestyles.
 

Mole

Permabanned
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Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
Of course the emotions of a false self are unnatural, because a false self is unnatural.

The false self is counterfeit, as are the emotions of a false self.

The narcissist operates a false self, and is validated by other false selves.

And there is nothing more the narcissist hates than the truth, because it exposes the narcissist to the world.
 

Mole

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Mar 20, 2008
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Fortunately we cater to the narcissist by providing sixteen ready made false selves in mbti. And these false selves are validated by all the other false selves. Mbti is a narcissists paradise, the very home of the false self.

Mbti is the very home of unnatural emotion. We are all actors on a stage imitating our film star celebrities, who are fake down to the bone marrow, just like us.

We marinate in the warm sludge of our unnatural emotions, and are proud of our false self and our unnatural emotions, and even our parents are proud of us.

To start to discover our true self, all we need to do is to start telling the truth and having natural emotions, but telling the truth is risky. We risk social disapproval, we risk social rejection, and some of our natural emotions are painful.

At first we don't know who we are, but slowly, with every time we tell the truth, a true self is being born.
 
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