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Lives of quiet desparation

highlander

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It is said that the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.

Do you agree with this? I certainly feel that way at times
 

ceecee

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"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things."

Look around, it’s everywhere. People are dead inside. Yes. Many are. Is that really surprising given the state of the world? But to me he's pointing out that it's wrong to criticize humanity’s despair, like it's a shortcoming or something they personally did to deserve their despair. He went to Walden Pond to live the good life - not a moral definition but to see and feel the good in life. That changing is within all of us. That's what I focus on.
 

The Cat

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I'm not being funny when I say we're all being driven mad on a mass scale. It's almost like a frequency. A song on the edge of hearing in the quiet moments in the night between sleep and awake you can almost hear enough to make out the details of the words, but not quite. It is ironically funny. But it's not meant to be. Maddening. But then what isnt these days? :shrug:
 

Hermit of the Forest

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Yes, and men in the general sense of mankind.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I think it's true for the majority of people. Maybe everyone.

I see the desperateness connected with emptiness or want, which means there are more needs than resources. I think part of the problem is the human tendency to take more than give. It creates a tension and continual imbalance. It is the problem with viewing reality from a single vantage point and having instinctual fears. If there was a way everyone could be fearless and generous, the world would be very different.

Humanity feels like a complexly connected web of black holes all pulling on each other in a gravitational entanglement, a gridlock of want. There needs to be more suns that shine.
 

Earl Grey

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Yes, for many live not a life of want and hope, but one of fear. Not everyone gets what they want, and everything is a continuous treadmill march that may suddenly jerk, speed, and fling you off if you're not strong or fast enough. There isn't a guaranteed safety for those who are flung off the rails, and thus, knowing this, they run to carve out a space for themselves in society, just so that they can live at all. Is that not desperation?
 

The Cat

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Yes, for many live not a life of want and hope, but one of fear. Not everyone gets what they want, and everything is a continuous treadmill march that may suddenly jerk, speed, and fling you off if you're not strong or fast enough. There isn't a guaranteed safety for those who are flung off the rails, and thus, knowing this, they run to carve out a space for themselves in society, just so that they can live at all. Is that not desperation?

It's romantic
 

The Cat

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As romantic as a rose is the colour of blood.

You're not blooming anything new on me Earl of gathering shadow. Besides I prefer black roses.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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As romantic as a rose is the colour of blood.
This phrase is kinda romantic. Blood roses.



Not to veer too far off topic. I'd also say 'money'. That has a direct correlation to a lot of quiet desperation. And sex. Those are the two things that force interaction and negotiation and therefore suffering.
 

highlander

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Not to veer too far off topic. I'd also say 'money'. That has a direct correlation to a lot of quiet desperation. And sex. Those are the two things that force interaction and negotiation and therefore suffering.

This is interesting. What do you mean?
 

Siúil a Rúin

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This is interesting. What do you mean?
Those are the two things that cause people to be beholden to others. I started thinking about how money is what makes people trapped in their lives and that causes a lot of the desperation. If most are acting in self-interest, anytime you need something from them, there is likelihood of having to give more than receiving, of being drained of resources in some way. People feel desperate when trapped or pressured, and it becomes desperation when the resources are draining faster than being rebuilt.

I mentioned people becoming more generous as a help, but that is a problem in the scenario I described. I also try to minimize my own needs so I don't expect as much, but there are some limits to how far you can take that approach and not fall into a different sort of despair. For money, I minimize living expenses, so that I'm not trapped at a job that pays more in order to maintain my expenses. That's a pragmatic example of how to minimize my own need, so I don't have as much to negotiate with others. Not sure if that makes sense or explains it.
 

highlander

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Those are the two things that cause people to be beholden to others. I started thinking about how money is what makes people trapped in their lives and that causes a lot of the desperation. .

It makes complete sense on money but why sex? Sex is easy to find or get. Love is much harder.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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It makes complete sense on money but why sex? Sex is easy to find or get. Love is much harder.
For people like me who think sex is love, it's the same problem but only worse because for me it's easier to find love without it or with minimal amounts of it. I wish all people well, but I have a sense of absolute distance from most. I don't have the options that other people have for casual sex. My brain isn't wired that way.

Edit: In a general way I think a lot of people do have frustration about sex. There are a lot of single younger people with anger issues because they can't get laid. There are many sexless or nearly sexless marriages that people don't want to ruin or hurt. I think a lot of people aren't having sex because it's difficult to make it happen.
 

Vendrah

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I dont know much what I can say here...

Sadness...?

This kind of subject is kid of new in here...
 

Tennessee Jed

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It is said that the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.

Do you agree with this? I certainly feel that way at times

There are many kinds of desperation, and many kinds of solutions.

1) There is the desperation of being overwhelmed by events and commitments: Politics, news, too many new apps and technologies and games to learn, too many people to see and too much to do. Quick answer: Turn off the computer, cancel on your commitments, throw out some of those hi-tech gadgets, and go for long walks in the woods. Prioritize and pare back until you find a good balance.

2) There is the desperation of being hemmed in by the world: You want to be an Fi free spirit, but the world puts you in a Te straightjacket. Or you want to be a rebel, but you're hemmed in by bluenoses with their political correctness and cancel culture. Or you want to be free to travel the world, but you're hemmed in by poverty or disability or old age. Quick answer: Maybe you're projecting a lot of that feeling. Try focusing on what you *can* do instead of what you *can't* do. Can't travel to Greece? Okay, but maybe you could take parachuting lessons or even attend a free contradance put on by the town social services office. Or go hit the gym and work on your fitness level. There are always alternatives that are more accessible. No one but the extremely disabled are so immobile that they can't find alternatives.

3) There is the desperation of the neurosis or the mid-life crisis: You're supposedly doing everything right, but you get slammed by mental health issues. Quick answer: Let your freak flag fly. You've ignored an important part of yourself and you need to explore it. Get some therapy and take off that self-imposed straitjacket. Easier said than done, I know. But you have to start somewhere.

4) There is the desperation of being stuck in bad relationships, bad families, bad friendships, bad jobs, etc. Quick answer: Pay attention to the lyrics of Paul Simon's "Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover."

And so on. Desperation comes largely from inside. It's like the old saying, something about all our problems arise because we don't know how to sit quietly in a chair and mind our own business. We get bored, we get involved with other people or other things in order to divert ourselves, and we take on too much.

By the way, boredom represents another type of desperation. Even if someone were to come along, wave a magic wand, and solve all our problems, we would still drive ourselves nuts with boredom. I remember back before the personal computer, when things were genuinely boring. And even then we talked about our "lives of quiet desperation": Alcoholism, pill-popping, spouse-beating, misery in the home, etc.

Yeah the world sucks, but it always sucked. Meantime, no one of us can embrace the world; we only control our tiny corner of it (largely limited to ourselves and our immediate environment). Thus the answers have to come from inside. People need to learn to entertain themselves without overwhelming themselves.

PS. I had to laugh: At the bottom of the thread, under the heading of "Similar Threads" was the thread title "Dangerous lives of altar boys." That's a different kind of desperation.
 

á´…eparted

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Our immense knowledge and curiosity allowed us to create tools and technology that led us into evolutionary traps, most of which exist on a sociological level, not a biological one. In the absence of imparted sociological control mechanisms our creations create many self-amplifying feedback loops. We know so much about things, but so little about ourselves. Until the latter is far more better understood and that knowledge used to protect and nurture the future generations as they come in, this world will not be a happy one for the vast majority.
 

Lexicon

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There are many kinds of desperation, and many kinds of solutions.

1) There is the desperation of being overwhelmed by events and commitments: Politics, news, too many new apps and technologies and games to learn, too many people to see and too much to do. Quick answer: Turn off the computer, cancel on your commitments, throw out some of those hi-tech gadgets, and go for long walks in the woods. Prioritize and pare back until you find a good balance.

2) There is the desperation of being hemmed in by the world: You want to be an Fi free spirit, but the world puts you in a Te straightjacket. Or you want to be a rebel, but you're hemmed in by bluenoses with their political correctness and cancel culture. Or you want to be free to travel the world, but you're hemmed in by poverty or disability or old age. Quick answer: Maybe you're projecting a lot of that feeling. Try focusing on what you *can* do instead of what you *can't* do. Can't travel to Greece? Okay, but maybe you could take parachuting lessons or even attend a free contradance put on by the town social services office. Or go hit the gym and work on your fitness level. There are always alternatives that are more accessible. No one but the extremely disabled are so immobile that they can't find alternatives.

3) There is the desperation of the neurosis or the mid-life crisis: You're supposedly doing everything right, but you get slammed by mental health issues. Quick answer: Let your freak flag fly. You've ignored an important part of yourself and you need to explore it. Get some therapy and take off that self-imposed straitjacket. Easier said than done, I know. But you have to start somewhere.

4) There is the desperation of being stuck in bad relationships, bad families, bad friendships, bad jobs, etc. Quick answer: Pay attention to the lyrics of Paul Simon's "Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover."

And so on. Desperation comes largely from inside. It's like the old saying, something about all our problems arise because we don't know how to sit quietly in a chair and mind our own business. We get bored, we get involved with other people or other things in order to divert ourselves, and we take on too much.

By the way, boredom represents another type of desperation. Even if someone were to come along, wave a magic wand, and solve all our problems, we would still drive ourselves nuts with boredom. I remember back before the personal computer, when things were genuinely boring. And even then we talked about our "lives of quiet desperation": Alcoholism, pill-popping, spouse-beating, misery in the home, etc.

Yeah the world sucks, but it always sucked. Meantime, no one of us can embrace the world; we only control our tiny corner of it (largely limited to ourselves and our immediate environment). Thus the answers have to come from inside. People need to learn to entertain themselves without overwhelming themselves.

PS. I had to laugh: At the bottom of the thread, under the heading of "Similar Threads" was the thread "Dangerous lives of altar boys." That's a different kind of desperation.

Excellent post. Made even better when read in Grampa Simpson’s voice in my head.
 
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