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How to Stay Hopeful on a Dying World

á´…eparted

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Due to climate change, our planet is slowly going belly up. The extent to which in regards to how badly and at what rate it will effect human life varies, but at minimum there will be a necessary and unavoidable large reduction in the quality of life on a global scale in the coming decades. While there are ways in which this could be mitigated, this seems unlikely or to be enough to thwart major impacts. As a result, the outlook is rather grim, to put it nicely. We'll survive as a species and people, but how we will survive might be very harsh and undesirable.

This makes it extremely difficult for some people to have hope for the future. Many of peoples plans implicitly depend on stable food and water supplies, stable economies, stable and predictable weather patterns, all of which are at major threat and will be negatively effected in the coming decades. Sure, you can have hopes, plans, and dreams for what you want to do with your life and into the future, but when the plant truly begins to tilt those plans may have to be shelved or canceled all together. For those who have grappled with this, how do you cope and how do you hold hope and positivity for your future? If you don't, then what do you plan (if at all) to do?

Discuss.
 

Lark

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The earth is unimaginably old, too old for a mere human to fathom, its survived threats like this in the past, worse ones I'll wager, and its been fine.

I dont think that mankind will survive in its present shape, which is also fine, the mistakes spawned by industrialism and capitalism are many and the cultural malaise which gave rise to it much older, however, the evidence is in and it will change mankind.

All that remains is for the the old malthusian and darwinist prejudices to finally bite the dust and we have a chance of finally moving beyond class struggles and mankind can finally write its own history. It shouldnt be long now. ;)
 

Maou

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World doesn't give a shit about humans, what makes you think it would die without us around? That is pretty self-important thinking. Like, 98% of all living creatures that have existed on earth are extinct. Just let that sink in. Life, will continue on without us. Humans might evolve. Society might not be around, but I assure you it will come back through things like convergent evolution, or related ancestors walking the same path as humans once did.
 

cascadeco

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World doesn't give a shit about humans, what makes you think it would die without us around? That is pretty self-important thinking. Like, 98% of all living creatures that have existed on earth are extinct. Just let that sink in. Life, will continue on without us. Humans might evolve. Society might not be around, but I assure you it will come back through things like convergent evolution, or related ancestors walking the same path as humans once did.

This logic always strikes me as not actually caring about life that does cease to exist. Not valuing it, really, if it is that 'easy' to brush it aside. Do you feel that way, or do you choose to view things in this light so as to not feel it at all? I hope that doesn't strike you as offensive, but I think the question gets more to the heart of the issue.
 

á´…eparted

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This logic always strikes me as not actually caring about life that does cease to exist. Not valuing it, really, if it is that 'easy' to brush it aside. Do you feel that way, or do you choose to view things in this light so as to not feel it at all? I hope that doesn't strike you as offensive, but I think the question gets more to the heart of the issue.

Yup. It is devoid of empathy and compassion for suffering. Humans care about other humans (the kind ones do anyway). The fact of the matter is we are here, we exist, and we all feel. So, we need to deal with that. Of course life will go on on earth. It's proven to be really resiliant, and I am extremely curious to what life will come after us after the time of humans are over.

I found this a few months ago and I think it gives some prospective on what could happen due to climate change. Over the next few centuries the earth is going to go through a very large species bottle neck. Indeed life will go on, but right now there is life here, and we aught to try and limit and prevent as much suffering as possible given we have the means to do so.

 

ceecee

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World doesn't give a shit about humans, what makes you think it would die without us around? That is pretty self-important thinking. Like, 98% of all living creatures that have existed on earth are extinct. Just let that sink in. Life, will continue on without us. Humans might evolve. Society might not be around, but I assure you it will come back through things like convergent evolution, or related ancestors walking the same path as humans once did.

You are so broken. It's fortunate that there are people that don't feel this way, that will likely be there for you when you realize this outlook is the cause of much of the strife in this world.
 

The Cat

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I try to do what I can here and now. I live in a state where even though the signs are ALL OVER THE PLACE and they're seeing it happen. They still inexplicably seem to live in a state of denial and just keep selling land and overdeveloping. :dont:
 

cascadeco

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To try to answer this question, as someone who feels pretty much as you do and I think about everything you wrote in the OP, even though I don't actually have hope in the long run and despise that 'it's bound to happen'/ 'life will always go on' thinking is the easiest copout for not taking accountability for any of it or doing the most individually to ensure it doesn't happen or minimize things, my thought right now is that at least for the duration of all of this we DO and WILL have individuals who care and who work legally, in community activism/development, and in attempting to hold back the floodgates of habitat loss and degradation/pollution. Who work towards trying to ensure that our water stays clean, that our food stays good, that the air we breathe is as clean as we can possibly hope to make it.

We might have to put our hope in small victories. And perhaps zoos. Many have some moral/ethical issues with zoos, but the fact is that they are filled with people who care about the animals and who also work globally to try to protect resources and animals in the wild. Maybe at some point humanity will just be left with the 'wild' only in zoos, or small pockets that due to the nature of the size can't sustain truly diverse and complex ecosystems, but maybe that's all we'll have and today, as individuals, if we have the income and time, we can help contribute to diverting monetary funds to these people/organization or our time to being more active in volunteering or working in other nations.

I despise that we might have to 'settle' for this and don't think we should, so all individuals who do care should keep focusing on it and not fall into the view of seeing it as inevitable. Truly in this case it isn't, and wasn't, except for the fact that humans don't particularly have long-range thinking as a collective trait. We can try to change that, though, always. Through voting, small actions on our own and within our communities, and so on.

Personally I donate, when able, to various conservation organizations as well as the National Resources Defense Council -- since a lot of stuff hits the national scene and you NEED top-notch lawyers to actually fight the big fight.

One thing I would like to do eventually is perhaps volunteer overseas regularly for eco-lodges. Though the reality is that volunteers are often not super useful to them, so maybe purely donating is a better option. Or visiting, of course. Putting money into these avenues that are important.
 

Maou

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This logic always strikes me as not actually caring about life that does cease to exist. Not valuing it, really, if it is that 'easy' to brush it aside. Do you feel that way, or do you choose to view things in this light so as to not feel it at all? I hope that doesn't strike you as offensive, but I think the question gets more to the heart of the issue.

Oh no, I deeply value life. But there comes a time where one has to accept nothing lasts forever. Strive and persevere as you might, but the clock is always ticking. For everything. So much life went extinct before humans even existed. Things go extinct, and evolve all the the time in constant flux. Humans will see the birth and death of many things, even itself. There will be a time when humans have to choose between human life, and nature. How do you reconcile the contradicting logic of unlimited empathy and saving all life, with overpopulation and the destruction of the enviroment to make saving those lives possible? We support green energy, naturalists ideas etc. But how does that stop overpopulation? It is escapism from the conscious thought of death and life. When will you realize that humans are actually the biggest problem for themselves? like an algea bloom in the ocean? Do you know what happens after an algea bloom? Everything dies becaused it used up its resources (and giving birth to new life). Its a natural part of life. Humans just question absurdity, and try to resist against the inevitable. I will be long dead before that happens. So I am content just enjoying life now.
 

The Cat

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So in other words, she doesnt stay hopeful in a dying world. :dry:
 

Maou

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You are so broken. It's fortunate that there are people that don't feel this way, that will likely be there for you when you realize this outlook is the cause of much of the strife in this world.

Thank you for informing me what I already know. But perhaps my existance is there to show the world what not to do. Or maybe give a reality check to the idealists. Who knows.
 

Virtual ghost

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In short: there will be a global wipe out as it seems by global trends, what will end the most of species and ecosystems on the planet. However getting depressed over it is basically a waste of time. Either we will try to prevent the worst parts of the trend (what is becoming exponentially harder to achieve by the day). Or communities/countries should start to dig them selves for resource wars. In this part of the world we are already in the situations that we basically have no winters anymore. Winters today are basically one big November, while during Summer is often too warm to be outside during the day (over 40C). Also it is clear as day that our traditional climate simply doesn't really exist anymore. While sea is being turned into tropical sea with new species coming from the south.
Therefore this reality is already knocking at the door. How the brand new world will look like remains to be seen.
 

cascadeco

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Oh no, I deeply value life. But there comes a time where one has to accept nothing lasts forever. Strive and persevere as you might, but the clock is always ticking. For everything. So much life went extinct before humans even existed. Things go extinct, and evolve all the the time in constant flux. Humans will see the birth and death of many things, even itself. There will be a time when humans have to choose between human life, and nature. How do you reconcile the contradicting logic of unlimited empathy and saving all life, with overpopulation and the destruction of the enviroment to make saving those lives possible? We support green energy, naturalists ideas etc. But how does that stop overpopulation? It is escapism from the conscious thought of death and life. When will you realize that humans are actually the biggest problem for themselves? like an algea bloom in the ocean? Do you know what happens after an algea bloom? Everything dies becaused it used up its resources (and giving birth to new life). Its a natural part of life. Humans just question absurdity, and try to resist against the inevitable. I will be long dead before that happens. So I am content just enjoying life now.

Well that's very nice; it is and was only inevitable though given beliefs like you present. Your beliefs times billions is why we are where we are. There was nothing inevitable about that unless you say it's inevitable since many humans are like you; in which case, yah, I'm already aware of that reality. I think the OP is too. It really never had to be the only reality, though.

I don't consider myself an idealist, in the sense of not seeing reality; but even though I think people like yourself are probably a good reason why we are where we are, I'll never stop thinking what a complete cop-out that is. Resignation. But, that is certainly a 'solution' to hopelessness. Just soaking up the present and being glad one won't be around when it gets really bad.
 

Maou

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Well that's very nice; it is and was only inevitable though given beliefs like you present. Your beliefs times billions is why we are where we are. There was nothing inevitable about that unless you say it's inevitable since many humans are like you; in which case, yah, I'm already aware of that reality. I think the OP is too. It really never had to be the only reality, though.

I don't consider myself an idealist, in the sense of not seeing reality; but even though I think people like yourself are probably a good reason why we are where we are, I'll never stop thinking what a complete cop-out that is. Resignation. But, that is certainly a 'solution' to hopelessness. Just soaking up the present and being glad one won't be around when it gets really bad.

"Resignation" is not how I would describe it at all. That was my general perspective of the fate of the world. Not what I would personally do, or try to do with my life. But that perspective is to allow what me to think about what humanity needs to overcome to prevent its extinction realistically. The struggle of life, is what makes it worth it on a personal level. It gives value and meaning in what you do. I just tend to take the position of observance rather than action. I have my things I wish would happen as well. I would also like a world that lives in harmony with nature. That no animals go extinct. That humans cared more. But the fact I recognize that humans are animals, makes me believe that it will be very improbable
 

á´…eparted

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To try to answer this question, as someone who feels pretty much as you do and I think about everything you wrote in the OP, even though I don't actually have hope in the long run and despise that 'it's bound to happen'/ 'life will always go on' thinking is the easiest copout for not taking accountability for any of it or doing the most individually to ensure it doesn't happen or minimize things, my thought right now is that at least for the duration of all of this we DO and WILL have individuals who care and who work legally, in community activism/development, and in attempting to hold back the floodgates of habitat loss and degradation/pollution. Who work towards trying to ensure that our water stays clean, that our food stays good, that the air we breathe is as clean as we can possibly hope to make it.

We might have to put our hope in small victories. And perhaps zoos. Many have some moral/ethical issues with zoos, but the fact is that they are filled with people who care about the animals and who also work globally to try to protect resources and animals in the wild. Maybe at some point humanity will just be left with the 'wild' only in zoos, or small pockets that due to the nature of the size can't sustain truly diverse and complex ecosystems, but maybe that's all we'll have and today, as individuals, if we have the income and time, we can help contribute to diverting monetary funds to these people/organization or our time to being more active in volunteering or working in other nations.

I despise that we might have to 'settle' for this and don't think we should, so all individuals who do care should keep focusing on it and not fall into the view of seeing it as inevitable. Truly in this case it isn't, and wasn't, except for the fact that humans don't particularly have long-range thinking as a collective trait. We can try to change that, though, always. Through voting, small actions on our own and within our communities, and so on.

Personally I donate, when able, to various conservation organizations as well as the National Resources Defense Council -- since a lot of stuff hits the national scene and you NEED top-notch lawyers to actually fight the big fight.

One thing I would like to do eventually is perhaps volunteer overseas regularly for eco-lodges. Though the reality is that volunteers are often not super useful to them, so maybe purely donating is a better option. Or visiting, of course. Putting money into these avenues that are important.

What I want to have hope for is that suffering will kept to a minimum. That is an obtainable goal, and if that can be done, then I think I can comfortably hold feelings of hope. I sort of find a small amount of comfort in the fact that for the first half of the 20th century we really had no idea what we were doing energy wise could possibly impact the planet as severely as it is occurring (some knew, but it was limited to very small academic spheres). This wasn't a malicious move by us, all we were trying to do was making the world a better place. More safety and security from the harshness of the physical environment. Electricity has afforded us so much.

I do think it is ok for people to thinking "live will always go on" in some contexts. The way I look at it is like this: "we can try and save ourselves and life, it is possible for us to get through this and whether the damage. But if we fail... at least life will go on, and our legacy will be that we did try". There is a small comfort that comes from knowing that this won't cause the earth to turn into mercury and erase any trace of life ever being here. Broadening the context to the scale of the universe helps a lot too. There is almost certainly complex life elsewhere in the universe, and the universe has eons of time left to form all kinds of other wonderous complexity. The risk and fallacy that can come from contexualizing is using it as an excuse of cop-out to do nothing. I can understand if someone can't handle it and might not be able to help much. However, what isn't ok is to bemoan or demonize anyone else for feeling bad, or wanting to try. Not trying is a 100% garuantee ticket to death and dispair. To try, we might come out the otherside better from it.

I think putting hope in small victories is very important to. Like with contextualizing, we cannot allow it to narrow our scope and not try and keep the long term in view, but they are important. Zoo's used to have a lot of ethical problems in the past, but the past few decades they have largely become great places as animal behaviorists and zoologists have a much much better understanding of what animal needs are.

On my end I still don't yet know what I can do to help. Once I have income again I will certainly be donating, but to me that feels too small. I am not a physical person so doing ground work would only play to my weaknesses. One strength I do have is counciling and supporting others, so I would like to channel that somehow in the future. The psychological toll caused by climate change will be just as significant if not moreso than the physical changes to the planet, and that will need to be managed as well. One thing I would like to do (if I can get there) is to use art and music as means of support. Many say that's useless but it's not. It doesn't help everyone, but it does help others, and it communicates to the populace which will also be needed. Afterall, we are an artistic and musical species too.

One of my favorite artists made this recently. It speaks to climate change. She said this on the track:

"So while Frontier was written in homage to Sacred Harp music from where I grew up, perhaps what is more interesting is that shape note singing may be a descendent of the same Proto singing traditions that early humans took with them to all corners of the world, which is poetic, as when I sit and listen to examples of that music, it feels like a kind of fundamental universal collective fight music. Which is partly why I conceived of the song in relation to the climate challenge. Our ancestors may have developed collective singing as a survival tool, so I thought that maybe now would be a good time to revisit that millennia-old resilient technology."


 

cascadeco

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"Resignation" is not how I would describe it at all. That was my general perspective of the fate of the world. Not what I would personally do, or try to do. But that perspective is to allow what me to think about what humanity needs to overcome to prevent its extinction realistically. The struggle of life, is what makes it worth it on a personal level. It gives value and meaning in what you do. I just tend to take the position of observance rather than action. I have my things I wish would happen as well. I would also like a world that lives in harmony with nature. That no animals go extinct. That humans cared more. But the fact I recognize that humans are animals, makes me believe that it will be very improbable

If you or anyone makes choices that go hand in hand with your statement of wishing for no animals to go extinct, and living in harmony with nature, and wishing humans cared more, I would believe that you actualize what you are saying; if you don't, though, then there's a discord between what you say you wish for and what you actually choose to bring about via your decisions.

The one thing you and I seem to agree on is the improbability of it; but that's probably the only thing we agree on in terms of choices made in life to counter this.

I guess this is what I am getting at: There is a difference between saying you care about animals/nature, vs thinking about 'what humanity needs to overcome to prevent its extinction'. Some people say they value the former when their actions and choices don't reflect that at all. I just wish everyone would OWN what they actually value; then there wouldn't be a discrepancy between what they say and what they do. If you/one ultimately prioritizes human life only, at least own it; don't beat around the bush saying you care about everything else too when in reality it isn't the case or in reality any attempt to try to pass litigation to 'live in harmony with nature' is obstructed or reversed, or due to 'humans being animals' and the reality of humans, is not prioritized.

At this point, some of these thoughts aren't directed specifically towards you, fwiw --- they reflect my frustration, though, and what I see frequently as being 'valued' but what everyone does speaks quite differently.
 

The Cat

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In short: there will be a global wipe out as it seems by global trends, what will end the most of species and ecosystems on the planet. However getting depressed over it is basically a waste of time. Either we will try to prevent the worst parts of the trend (what is becoming exponentially harder to achieve by the day). Or communities/countries should start to dig them selves for resource wars. In this part of the world we are already in the situations that we basically have no winters anymore. Winters today are basically one big November, while during Summer is often too warm to be outside during the day (over 40C). Also it is clear as day that our traditional climate simply doesn't really exist anymore. While sea is being turned into tropical sea with new species coming from the south.
Therefore this reality is already knocking at the door. How the brand new world will look like remains to be seen.

gods you are sunny bunny.
 

cascadeco

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What I want to have hope for is that suffering will kept to a minimum. That is an obtainable goal, and if that can be done, then I think I can comfortably hold feelings of hope. I sort of find a small amount of comfort in the fact that for the first half of the 20th century we really had no idea what we were doing energy wise could possibly impact the planet as severely as it is occurring (some knew, but it was limited to very small academic spheres). This wasn't a malicious move by us, all we were trying to do was making the world a better place. More safety and security from the harshness of the physical environment. Electricity has afforded us so much.

I do think it is ok for people to thinking "live will always go on" in some contexts. The way I look at it is like this: "we can try and save ourselves and life, it is possible for us to get through this and whether the damage. But if we fail... at least life will go on, and our legacy will be that we did try". There is a small comfort that comes from knowing that this won't cause the earth to turn into mercury and erase any trace of life ever being here. Broadening the context to the scale of the universe helps a lot too. There is almost certainly complex life elsewhere in the universe, and the universe has eons of time left to form all kinds of other wonderous complexity. The risk and fallacy that can come from contexualizing is using it as an excuse of cop-out to do nothing. I can understand if someone can't handle it and might not be able to help much. However, what isn't ok is to bemoan or demonize anyone else for feeling bad, or wanting to try. Not trying is a 100% garuantee ticket to death and dispair. To try, we might come out the otherside better from it.

I think putting hope in small victories is very important to. Like with contextualizing, we cannot allow it to narrow our scope and not try and keep the long term in view, but they are important. Zoo's used to have a lot of ethical problems in the past, but the past few decades they have largely become great places as animal behaviorists and zoologists have a much much better understanding of what animal needs are.

On my end I still don't yet know what I can do to help. Once I have income again I will certainly be donating, but to me that feels too small. I am not a physical person so doing ground work would only play to my weaknesses. One strength I do have is counciling and supporting others, so I would like to channel that somehow in the future. The psychological toll caused by climate change will be just as significant if not moreso than the physical changes to the planet, and that will need to be managed as well. One thing I would like to do (if I can get there) is to use art and music as means of support. Many say that's useless but it's not. It doesn't help everyone, but it does help others, and it communicates to the populace which will also be needed. Afterall, we are an artistic and musical species too.

One of my favorite artists made this recently. It speaks to climate change. She said this on the track:





There is certainly a beauty to viewing things with a super wide lens, at the universe, and so on. I even choke up knowing that the Earth will be consumed by the sun eventually. So yes, of course if you look large enough, nothing lasts. But that's not the point as one who lives in the present on a micro scale; there is still accountability, choice, ability to enact change. I mean, we're saying the same thing. I don't disagree. :)

With your strengths you would probably be good on more of the community-building level. Not saying it's the direction you'd want to go in, but your mentioning of being more people-oriented and counselling-oriented makes me think of those who are in community development roles - whether teaching communities to live more sustainably, providing them the knowledge/tools to make changes in their life, etc.
 
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