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  1. #1
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Default Teaching INTJ teenagers, hard stuff ?

    Hello there,

    I'm landing here right now 'cause I think some Intj could help me clarifying some few points.
    I'm a teacher this year of my own mother tongue for some italian pupils, bilingual, often clever, but who have difficulties at home,
    + the fact that their parents only speak italian so they feel very often misunderstood and rebellious.
    With me they generally feel welcome, are willing to express themselves more and more, and in general I am very happy to have them around.

    The good point for me is that I naturally understand their tendency to feel rebellious and unsatisfied with their situation,
    even if, let's be honest,they are super lucky to have such a destiny. They'll probably realise that later....

    So my question is : I have among them 2 intj (1 am not sure, 1 may be isfp 'cause he seems to have an artistic soul).
    So I would need to understand stuffs about those young extraterrestres as I observe than even if they too seem more at ease,
    I can feel the shyness and I would like to improve myself facing them.
    Even if very young they have the will to understand different subjects. Sometimes I feel they know more than others, they can show themselves overly shy and reserved.
    With one I feel okay. But the other feels anything from me like an intrusion.

    So as a result, as I want him to feel confortable with me, I feel unconfortable myself. I take more time to explain a tiny problem.
    And I know that is wrong as I must find the middle road.

    Could some Intj help me by telling me what a good teacher is for them ? Or for a young intj ?
    I think those pupils are more challenging, they are definitely more mature. I need a good deal of humility to say " I don't know", because in front of their many questions,
    I sometimes hear myself saying so and I am okay with it, I often laugh at their perspicacity and at least I never feel bored with them !!
    They in their own way are teaching me so many stuffs about myself.

    Is it quite frequent for intjs/infps to be dyslexic more than others ?
    If there is a study about mbti on this subject...
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM
    Unfortunately we are all fucking contagious Smile and see what happens around you......

  2. #2
    夕日無影 Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedAmazoneFriendZone View Post
    but who have difficulties at home,
    + the fact that their parents only speak italian so they feel very often misunderstood and rebellious.
    Why are they feeling misunderstood, and rebel, if at home they get to speak their mother tongue? What kind of difficulties are they having, are they having difficulties obeying commands or having difficulties with attention? There is also the problem of- why do you feel uncomfortable? Feeling uncomfortable because you are not sure you know enough to teach them, or feeling uncomfortable with say, how they word their questions are 2 different issues with different ways to deal with.


    Anyway. If they really are INTJs, I think with young NTs the key is to foster respect. They don't obey authority for its own sake, and depending on how dead their Fi/Fe is they may not even care to follow your rules, especially if they've branded you a brainless buffon mindlessly reciting things off a book (I guess the NT arrogance comes from somewhere).

    I find that for these more cerebral types (I won't be speaking for all NTs, but this seems to be the general trend) trying to gain their favour out of goodwill, affection, friendliness does not work or works less than it does for other types- it seems like a distraction, and sometimes even dishonest. "What does this have to do with what I'm studying? Are you treating me like I'm dumb? You're patronizing me. This is useless. It doesn't make sense." are things that seem to cross to mind even if they are too young to have the words or perspective to vocalize them properly, thus they sometimes end up seeming like they are just silently rebelling by say, stonewalling you or being curt and distant (or even just outright rebellious).

    A problem is that a lot of the remedy for shyness in a child seems to be 'express yourselves!' 'come on, smile more!' and for an INT-? God no, just, no. Unless it does work for them, don't push it. INTJs very especially seem to have a distaste for the seemingly superfluous show of Fe ("What's the point? Why??") and would be more resistant in vocalizing good sentiments just for its own sake, but if you toss them subjects they are interested in, they just cannot shut up. Build up their confidence by strengthening their competency and gain their respect by showing that you do respect them and truly do know what you're talking about and that you're here to deliver what you inherently promise to do by being their teacher: intellectual guidance, and knowledge. Keep in mind however I am not saying to neglect teaching them courtesy and politeness, just that pushing them into it often does not work and has the opposite effect.

    If the humility of admitting ignorance is difficult, remember that by doing so you are teaching them that it is okay for you and they themselves as well to say "I don't know" and that learning and mastery is valued, their curiosities, insights, intuition, inquisitiveness are valued. Something I find they can come to respect is if you follow up that "I don't know" with a "But, that is a very good question. I'll look it up and tell you about it." that shows that you are accountable and respectable, and someone they can depend on for knowledge and answers instead of having you be the worse opposite, a patronizing know it all (not saying you are) because way too many people treat their inquisitiveness that way. Don't take certain words they say, such as "This doesn't make sense" as personal- they usually really are just focused on the subject instead of saying that you do not make sense.


    Is it quite frequent for intjs/infps to be dyslexic more than others ?
    If there is a study about mbti on this subject...
    Not sure about type and dyslexia, and I assume that you ask this because they show signs of it- but if you think your students have dyslexia, there are dyslexia-friendly fonts you can look up online. Presenting your material using those fonts may help, or just ask their parents about it. Sometimes they really just are inattentive.

  3. #3
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Why are they feeling misunderstood, and rebel, if at home they get to speak their mother tongue?
    What kind of difficulties are they having, are they having difficulties obeying commands or having difficulties with attention?
    There is also the problem of- why do you feel uncomfortable? Feeling uncomfortable because you are not sure you know enough to teach them, or feeling uncomfortable with say, how they word their questions are 2 different issues with different ways to deal with.
    If they really are INTJs, I think with young NTs the key is to foster respect. They don't obey authority for its own sake, and depending on how dead their Fi/Fe is they may not even care to follow your rules, especially if they've branded you a brainless buffon mindlessly reciting things off a book (I guess the NT arrogance comes from somewhere).
    I find that for these more cerebral types (I won't be speaking for all NTs, but this seems to be the general trend) trying to gain their favour out of goodwill, affection, friendliness does not work or works less than it does for other types


    I didn't express myself so well aparently (english isn't my mother tongue).
    Yes they get to speak their mother tongue at home, not at school.
    Moreover they feel misunderstood by their own parents (well I got very misunderstood my mine and I'm still alive, so I naturally understand their fears).
    They sometimes show their superiority to them as the last don't speak several languages (here the young NT dare "teasing" them to see how they react).

    When I feel uncomfortable _ I thought I had mentionned it_ it is facing a pupil who is over sensitive to my questions. To him I seem intrusive.
    So finally I decided not to ask him questions anymore and let him free ;
    I am NF and my logic is to think this way "what kind of values do I have to respect in that individual so that he gets more relaxed and happy during the time we have to spend together".
    He reacted rather well as after 3 lessons, he remained silent for a while and then came back to me to show his curiosity. So now I decided to answer him shortly (without going in my NF details) and ask questions back when he shows interest.

    This one is dyslexic. Two others are and they are great opportunities to work on PATIENCE. For they can only focus on a subject at once
    (so here I must make an effort as I love to make digressions, that's how my own brain works efficiently).

    The NT arrogance is I think due to the time those pupils seem to need compared to others (my pupils SP and NF for example generally don't need that time and they feel much more confortable).
    Here I speak of Trust, intellectual trust and trust in general.
    I don't obey authority either and I have never paternilized them. I am rather the kind of teacher who must be careful not to be too friendly because I love to make them laugh, they often develop a good humour they didn't know they could expose to a teacher. I am half way between the Confident, teacher and psychologist.
    With NT I have noticed their intellectual independance is a challenge to me, and as I said I am super GRATEFUL for having them.

    The rebellious are more SP but NT show a cold façade, and indeed, as you said it yourself, affection is a dilemna for them.
    What makes me wanna keep on this job isn't only "teaching" but the HUMAN side of it. This is my stuff. It is such a pleasure observing them improving in expressing themselves !
    And as I only have 6/7 pupils max all together, small groups of young students who are having difficulties (whether in their families, at school, or intellectually) it has nothing to do with my previous work (having 30 pupils or even more).

    When I say dilemna it is because I can almost always feel when there is a certain lack of affection at home. I think of one of them, who lost his father last year, he had wanted to commit a suicide.
    There is the case of the single parent who feels sometimes totally lost. His/her dear baby has turned into a teenager + a divorce to deal with, add to that a depression and bingo !
    As a result the children who bath in such atmosferes are looking outside for affection or reject it totally. All that is unconscious of course.

    I consider myself more than a simple teacher. I am a figure of Resilience. I am quite perfectionist in my job as, even when I am on holidays I read books about education and/or think about how to get their interest for the next subject I could teach them.
    You are right about dyslexia, there are many videos on the subject.
    My question was more about mbti and if a study had already been made.


    If the humility of admitting ignorance is difficult, remember that by doing so you are teaching them that it is okay for you and they themselves as well to say "I don't know" and that learning and mastery is valued, their curiosities, insights, intuition, inquisitiveness are valued. Something I find they can come to respect is if you follow up that "I don't know" with a "But, that is a very good question. I'll look it up and tell you about it." that shows that you are accountable and respectable, and someone they candepend on for knowledge and answers instead of having you be the worse opposite, a patronizing know it all (not saying you are) because way too many people treat their inquisitiveness that way. Don't take certain words they say, such as "This doesn't make sense" as personal- they usually really are just focused on the subject instead of saying that you do not make sense.


    Yes. I agree with that. I treat their inquisitiveness as an interest for what we study together.
    "This does not make sense" is rarely used by NT, one says so all the time and she is NF ! It is more due to answers she could not imagine and she is still very young.
    She asks 10 questions at a time, does not listen to my answers (or does not pay attention to other pupils questions) but to say "it is impossible", or "yes but", she is the very first.
    It is funny And there an NT often comes our way to explain why this could be possible. And the interaction becomes interesting that way.
    NT generally don't critic directly, I observe they seem more mature than they are. Am I right ?
    They rather do ask questions again or give their own opinion. They often seem much more serious than what they really are.


    Thank you for your pieces of advice anyway, it is very much appreciated.
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM
    Unfortunately we are all fucking contagious Smile and see what happens around you......

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