Is it weird to miss being psychotic even though it was hell?

[prplchknz]

so you smoke weed, because for you it produces the symptoms and think it's a good compromise so you're only that way for a few hours then you go back to your life and able to function?

 

[Lark]

I read about people craving what is familiar, even if the familiar is a bad situation, rather than the novelty of a changed state.

I'm sure there's something written about this by some of the guys who studied habit and habituation but I dont know for sure, the preference for the familiar over the novelty of a changed state that I'm aware of is some a different set of theories. I can say for sure that I've known a lot of people for whom that tendency to relapse into unhealthy states is pretty much a cert.

 

[Pionart]

I read about people craving what is familiar, even if the familiar is a bad situation, rather than the novelty of a changed state.

The problem with applying this principle here is that psychosis is itself a novel, change-oriented state.

Yes, I myself have a tendency to want to be psychotic, but given that I'm not psychotic most of the time, not being psychotic is the familiar state. But it feels like stagnation. It's boring. I like the feeling of having my unconscious kinda take over and send me on a magical adventure. Really. Yes some bits are hellish, and I don't want those to repeat, but a desire to experience a life of magic - as I suppose is the case here - is not simply about longing for familiarity.

From what I understand, pot activates your mind down to the 8th function, then takes a step beyond that into the zone associated with self-actualisation. So the desire to become psychotic is about wanting to self-actualise and then self-transcend. Doing it the natural way (I mean through psychosis and other similar states) is probably preferable to doing it artificially with substances, but the forces of life which keep people out of touch with their unconscious (in this case we have anti-psychotics as a substantial component of that) can be such that bypassing that through simple means can be or seem like a great idea.

I would say that anyone who enjoys the "mind-opening" drugs like pot and hallucinogens can understand why someone would want to become psychotic. Then there are the people who are strongly opposed to both, because they find the unconscious to be a threatening idea. These people are likely entrenched in their ego, and feel entitled to force their views onto others.

To me, psychosis is about functioning on a higher level. Yes there's the kind of functioning that leads to someone being able to hold a 9-5 job, but then you realise that there's much more to life than that. High functioning now becomes about the ability to process life through a set of eyes which most people can't, or don't (want to) access. 8 circuits of consciousness - activating circuits 5-8 becomes increasingly rare and there's "plots" going on to keep people from doing it, but that's part of what it means to be a human and to take life to the next level. Spiritual systems throughout time have sought such states, but the materialism of the time, and the low-mindedness of those who won't access it become forces to contend with.

So, this longing... it's a longing for the novel, really. A longing for intensity. A longing for experiential learning when book learning isn't doing the trick. A longing for contact - with the mind, with the minds of others, with the minds of non-physical beings, and non-entitic forces.

Of course, I could be said to be romanticising psychosis. Am I? Humans have romanticised it throughout history, only it's only now that we've conjured up the term "psychosis" - a way of condemning that which one does not understand.

And of course, it can be unpleasant. In tribal societies, when a person presented with psychotic symptoms, they were sent to the Shaman, because he'd been through all that and could guide the person through the experiences and on to becoming the next Shaman. But today we don't have that. So people fumble around in the dark, attempting to navigate the wild without a map. And that really can be dangerous. But danger shouldn't stop you, if what you can gain is well worth the risk. It's just that... it's necessary to take certain precautions, to integrate the lessons of the unconscious into your life so that it's not just about being in contact or out of contact, but in bridging the gap between the two so that higher life becomes the driving force even when living a lower life...



[a disclaimer that there may be conceptual problems associated with the idea of having the unconscious take control; a large part is likely about not being overtaken by it but maintaining control yourself; Jung likely wrote on this idea]

 

[Pionart]

Next time you want to get high, try listening to Loreena McKennitt and gazing at the moon.

 

[Lark]

Its possible to romanticize psychosis and there was the whole school of thought emerging on the back of RD Laing and Lacan (likely) that takes the "enjoy your symptoms" approach to things but Prpz was asking people what they thought about wishing to revisit a situation what was hell.

 

[Pionart]

Its possible to romanticize psychosis and there was the whole school of thought emerging on the back of RD Laing and Lacan (likely) that takes the "enjoy your symptoms" approach to things but Prpz was asking people what they thought about wishing to revisit a situation what was hell.

I guess the inference from what I wrote is that it's not the hell that is being sought after, but rather the immersion in one's higher faculties which happen to have been entangled with negative experiences. There may be a sense of "it was difficult, but there's something there I need to find, something I want to find" - and then being brave enough to face those fears and jump back into the place where those things seem to be. It's kinda like the desire to set sail upon the rough seas in the hope of finding treasure, new lands etc. - The voyage may itself be hellish and dangerous, but the rewards one will get from facing the seas will presumably make it all worth it.

 

[prplchknz]

I guess the inference from what I wrote is that it's not the hell that is being sought after, but rather the immersion in one's higher faculties which happen to have been entangled with negative experiences. There may be a sense of "it was difficult, but there's something there I need to find, something I want to find" - and then being brave enough to face those fears and jump back into the place where those things seem to be. It's kinda like the desire to set sail upon the rough seas in the hope of finding treasure, new lands etc. - The voyage may itself be hellish and dangerous, but the rewards one will get from facing the seas will presumably make it all worth it.

I didn't get the reason why, or rather, didn't think about it. But yeah this makes sense

 

[Red Memories]

I do not think it is a normal thing, but I think it is an environment thing. It is normalcy to some people and normal, good or bad, is less frightening than the unknown. So I think some are drawn back. Especially if they are struggling. They may be aware of the negatives after the fact, but in the moment just don't care.

 

[prplchknz]

I do not think it is a normal thing, but I think it is an environment thing. It is normalcy to some people and normal, good or bad, is less frightening than the unknown. So I think some are drawn back. Especially if they are struggling. They may be aware of the negatives after the fact, but in the moment just don't care.

I've been stable for the past 3-4 years so both have a sense of normalcy to me,

edit: and I had been psychotic on and off for about 8-9 years before that

 

[Obfuscate]

i think a lot of people have those feelings, but those feelings aren't a good indication of what is healthy... i am not saying that bit about "healthy" so much because of the short trips there via weed, but more because they often lead to people not talking their meds etc... when i was a kid, one of the kids i would hang out with saw "leprechauns"... it sort of slipped under the radar at first because people thought he just had an active imagination... well, as time passed they started telling him to do fucked up shit, and by the time he was in his late teens he was having probs with the law... i don't think he recieved treatment until his early twenties... anyhow, he sort of missed those times and had probs sticking with his meds... i have heard similar things from other people i have met in life who had a sort of love/hate relationship with it...

i am not sure playing with it short term via weed is prudent, but i find nothing about the desire to do so weird... have you done any research into it? i am honestly not informed enough to have an opinion on anything more than the urge... you should talk to folks with personal experience in the area (if possible), aswell as mental health professionals... try to get the most accurate information possible so you can make informed choices when handling this....

 

[prplchknz]

i think a lot of people have those feelings, but those feelings aren't a good indication of what is healthy... i am not saying that bit about "healthy" so much because of the short trips there via weed, but more because they often lead to people not talking their meds etc... when i was a kid, one of the kids i would hang out with saw "leprechauns"... it sort of slipped under the radar at first because people thought he just had an active imagination... well, as time passed they started telling him to do fucked up shit, and by the time he was in his late teens he was having probs with the law... i don't think he recieved treatment until his early twenties... anyhow, he sort of missed those times and had probs sticking with his meds... i have heard similar things from other people i have met in life who had a sort of love/hate relationship with it...

i am not sure playing with it short term via weed is prudent, but i find nothing about the desire to do so weird... have you done any research into it? i am honestly not informed enough to have an opinion on anything more than the urge... you should talk to folks with personal experience in the area (if possible), aswell as mental health professionals... try to get the most accurate information possible so you can make informed choices when handling this....

quitting my meds aren't an option, i get an injection, and someone always drives me to make sure i get it (I would probably skip the appointments otherwise)

 

[Norrsken]

I don't know if this can be filed under psychotic, but I almost, almost miss being able to dissociate sometimes when life gets too hectic. At least it was a good way for my mind to suspend itself for a few hours, though the nightmares that come from the naps I take afterward were pretty gruesome. So, I think a good way to look at this, is to replace it with something that's good for you instead. If I seek suspension, but not the bad things that come with it.. I can try meditating, for example, since that will help with anxiety and other symptoms that irritates me.

 

[Frosty]

Nah. People in my group talk all the time about how life... flat... is really hard to cope with sometimes. That- some of them- say they are just so bored that they poke the bear and then, its only been through experience, that theyve realized that the consequences for doing so- get way out of hand way too quickly.

So. Its not an uncommon sentiment. Ill say that the majority of the people in that group are bipolar but... Ive been psychotic too. And I get it. Its horrible but its also wonderful sometimes. Its like everything just has... more energy. Its like being taken to a foreign world and just- being so accustomed to “reality” that its impossible to cope with the constant shifting- but everything still- is so... so... NOT boring.

Monsters hidden around every corner. Everything EVERYTHING filled with meaning. Everything. Generally too much meaning, but sometimes it feels better than everything being dead and flat.

Anyways. The consequences are severe though. You know that. Time is lost. Energy is lost. And you can be a danger to yourself unintentionally just because- you are so... NOT there- you are so everywhere else, that the rules of everyday life just dont feel like they apply.

But they do. Thats what it comes down to. And thats yeah, the danger/risk. Anyways. I wont lecture. Because tbh, Id be a little bit of a hypocrite if I did. Ill just say- yeah. I think its normal. I think its also risky. But- personally- sometimes I miss elements of it too. For all the fear, and yes- there is a lot of fear for me- its also... theres lots of wonder. So I think its normal.

I would NEVER recommend you- well. I could never tell you its better to be psychotic. It destroys lives. It steals years that youll never get back. It destroys relationships. And I mean. Youve just graduated. Youve got SO much that you can do with your life... and... psychosis... I truly think that youd lose something if you let it win. I like you and I just... dont want things to get worse for you.

(ok- hah- NOW im done being a huge hypocritical lecturuer I promise!).

But yes. I very much think this is, to an extent, normal. Its something Im really glad you were brave enough to ask because its something Ive always been just a little bit ashamed of... but. Yeah. Sometimes... I miss it too

 

[I Tonya]

Wow, that was some eye catcher title.

 

[Pionart]

i think a lot of people have those feelings, but those feelings aren't a good indication of what is healthy... i am not saying that bit about "healthy" so much because of the short trips there via weed, but more because they often lead to people not talking their meds etc... when i was a kid, one of the kids i would hang out with saw "leprechauns"... it sort of slipped under the radar at first because people thought he just had an active imagination... well, as time passed they started telling him to do fucked up shit, and by the time he was in his late teens he was having probs with the law... i don't think he recieved treatment until his early twenties... anyhow, he sort of missed those times and had probs sticking with his meds... i have heard similar things from other people i have met in life who had a sort of love/hate relationship with it...

i am not sure playing with it short term via weed is prudent, but i find nothing about the desire to do so weird... have you done any research into it? i am honestly not informed enough to have an opinion on anything more than the urge... you should talk to folks with personal experience in the area (if possible), aswell as mental health professionals... try to get the most accurate information possible so you can make informed choices when handling this....

Do research into anti-psychotics before commenting on the perils of coming off them, too.

Yes, there are perils to coming off anti-psychotics, because it's a drug and there are withdrawals. Listen to the talks from people like Robert Whitaker though and you'll learn that being on them long-term is worse.


So, this particular person had leprechauns get him into trouble. Other people wind up in the "wrong crowd" and get into trouble. I'm not advocating obeying the orders of any spiritual being that comes your way, but the view that "these leprechauns aren't real, you're just crazy" is, in my eyes, an out-of-touch-with-reality view compared with "you can see leprechauns, most people can't (but that doesn't mean you should listen to them)".

I talk to my personal spirits frequently, and they tell me to do things. They also tell me to be wary because I never know when I'll be listening to a demon instead of them. You have to keep your wits about you, but that doesn't mean the whole process is misguided.

I don't know if this can be filed under psychotic, but I almost, almost miss being able to dissociate sometimes when life gets too hectic.

Would you be able to describe what it's like to be dissociated, if it's ok? I'm just wondering if it's something I experience. I've heard INFJs are one of the types most likely to dissociate. (through the Ni-Ti "loop")

I would NEVER recommend you- well. I could never tell you its better to be psychotic. It destroys lives. It steals years that youll never get back. It destroys relationships. And I mean. Youve just graduated. Youve got SO much that you can do with your life... and... psychosis... I truly think that youd lose something if you let it win. I like you and I just... dont want things to get worse for you.

Not sure if I should say this, but being on anti-psychotics can also steal years of your life that you won't get back. Form your own conclusion, but for me being on anti-psychotics is like living with weights around my body stopping me from moving, and it's clear to me how much damage it's done to me so far.

I'm not saying psychosis can't be damaging too, it can certainly be dangerous, especially when society isn't built for it (which is a problem with society really - consider the shamans of tribal societies - and how maybe psychosis is partly an attempt to remedy imbalances in the way things are run).

I'm aware also that I don't have this whole thing figured out yet. I almost know that there's something incredibly good about psychosis. Something intensely spiritual. But at the same time I realise it's a complex situation and it could be foolish to outright promote it. But I can say: I promote spiritual states (unless they're of a darker variety - I can't promote that) and being spiritual is often enough to warrant a diagnosis of psychosis... because in today's society, spirituality is shunned (I've even heard that many church leaders shun legitimate spiritual experience) and is put under the category of "mental illness". (I welcome contrary views here, that's just how it seems to me)

 

[Obfuscate]

Do research into anti-psychotics before commenting on the perils of coming off them, too.

Yes, there are perils to coming off anti-psychotics, because it's a drug and there are withdrawals. Listen to the talks from people like Robert Whitaker though and you'll learn that being on them long-term is worse.


So, this particular person had leprechauns get him into trouble. Other people wind up in the "wrong crowd" and get into trouble. I'm not advocating obeying the orders of any spiritual being that comes your way, but the view that "these leprechauns aren't real, you're just crazy" is, in my eyes, an out-of-touch-with-reality view compared with "you can see leprechauns, most people can't (but that doesn't mean you should listen to them)".

I talk to my personal spirits frequently, and they tell me to do things. They also tell me to be wary because I never know when I'll be listening to a demon instead of them. You have to keep your wits about you, but that doesn't mean the whole process is misguided.

if the do research portion is directed at me personally, experience is research enough, though i have researched it when it was relevant to me... if you read what i said, creating an informed opinon was the only actual advice provided... everything else was based upon her question if a desire to return to that state was normal... i provided anecotal evidence (aka, not real evidence) that it was... the leprechuan fellow from my youth was anecdotal... you don't know shit about me or what i know... fuck off with the atttitude...

post script:
and by the way, when the fuck (outside of how it went in the story) was getting off meds mentioned? she was talking about an entirely diff subject... at no point did i give advice pertaining to it... but as someone that Has cut off those meds cold turkey, i am perfectly capable of expressing an opinion on it if i choose to... i find everything about the tone of your response annoying...

 

[Pionart]

if the do research portion is directed at me personally, experience is research enough, though i have researched it when it was relevant to me... if you read what i said, creating an informed opinon was the only actual advice provided... everything else was based upon her question if a desire to return to that state was normal... i provided anecotal evidence (aka, not real evidence) that it was... the leprechuan fellow from my youth was anecdotal... you don't know shit about me or what i know... fuck off with the atttitude...

You seemed to imply that people should stay on their meds if they're prescribed them and that coming off them is therefore a bad idea. That's problematic for me because I know firsthand how tough it is to be on them and through some level of research what damage they cause, and so what you said struck me as being an ignorant attitude that I felt the need to comment on.

The battle people diagnosed with psychosis face in trying to live the life they want, in contrast to the life that people with an anti-psychosis view would have them lead is one of my primary concerns.

 

[Obfuscate]

You seemed to imply that people should stay on their meds if they're prescribed them and that coming off them is therefore a bad idea. That's problematic for me because I know firsthand how tough it is to be on them and through some level of research what damage they cause, and so what you said struck me as being an ignorant attitude that I felt the need to comment on.

The battle people diagnosed with psychosis face in trying to live the life they want, in contrast to the life that people with an anti-psychosis view would have them lead is one of my primary concerns.

you inferred that, i implied nothing... i merely stated that finding out more was prudent...

your response feels judgemental and ignorant...

 

[prplchknz]

my meds make me feel normal, but dull. and I after everything find normal to be boring at this point

 

[Norrsken]

Would you be able to describe what it's like to be dissociated, if it's ok? I'm just wondering if it's something I experience. I've heard INFJs are one of the types most likely to dissociate. (through the Ni-Ti "loop")

Mines wasn't from cognitive functions, though. It was from a previous mental illness that maybe is still.. around in my head. (C-PTSD)

But, sure, I'll describe it. It feels like for a moment that I can feel all feelings, starting from my fingers tips and traveling upwards, that I'm no longer real. And not only that, but the world that surrounds me seems distorted. Maybe the sound wavelengths become stretched, or more louder, or more quieter than normal. The colors become either more saturated or duller. People around me just seem like walking mannequins which really scared me when it happened back then. I can't move or even dare to unless I want to knock myself over, so it's safer if I just sit down. It feels like I'm getting ready to die but death is taking too long to come for me. So I'm just stuck here in a mental purgatory. If someone talks to me, I can't reply back. Because I'm convinced that none of this is real. That I'm not real. I experience blackouts and memory losses from these episodes. Nightmares may ensue during these blackouts.

Who am I kidding. I don't miss this at all.