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  1. #51
    ENFJ In Chains Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanra13 View Post
    Nazism. xD Ikr

    Hello, Dom. This is meant as an honest speculation rather than an assertion of rightness like others might be, so yes. Appreciate the recognition on that. Yeah, sexuality and gender identity I imagine can also influence eachother or bring out oddities and wonder too. I love to roleplay online as female characters in games and sometimes flirt with guys, and have even felt genuinely effected by it when they respond. It's just a game, but it's a way I can play that female role and get a buzz. Since it's not just a troll, but another honest exploration. Or my last ex who acknowledged that side of me. And yeah, about energy I've been assumed physically the opposite of what I am online, even if I'm not trying to come off that way, because of my more "feminine energy" I give off. I kinda have both but I find it interesting. I also strongly relate to some characters, Loki being one but in a much less feely way, more in his playful silver tongue persona. But I've also related to Chloe from Life is Strange Before the Storm more personally (before she went full punk crazy anyway) because I use to be a lot like that. Otherwise a bit naive, joking but having moments of serious angst, sensitive but could definitely hold her own in verbal wit. Life experiences. Albeit less extreme. Her awkward first romance. And I feel I can identify with her female appearance and style a lot. So I know what you mean.
    It really makes me happy to hear things like this. As a female mechanic, I spent an inordinate amount of time fighting off alpha males and misogynists trying to physically lay hands on me or attempt to verbally reduce me/“take me down a notch”. I liked open-minded playful guys with a strong sense of self and humor, and that was regrettably in short supply no matter where I went.

    On my breaks, I would sit on one of the bulldozers and eat my chips and imagine each redneck wearing dog collars and eyeliner. My punk hair and clothes drew out at least one country ‘freak’ who started wearing his earrings and NIN shirts again (we became close friends). I didn’t understand why liking something other ppl might not was such a problem, but I was just beginning to see the effects of toxic gender ideals/rigid masculinity on those around me. It was very ugly and unnecessary and disappointing. I remember a guy I knew half-jokingly bought me spurs for my birthday and that was considered ‘out there’ - a guy giving a girl spurs was such a gender flip and extremely suggestive by 1990s standards. Millennials give me hope that ppl will be able live their lives without being shamed into silence about it, esp when they aren’t breaking any laws.

    This is why I’m attracted to bisexual guys. Not a whole lot fazes them, and homophobia is such a huge fucking turn-off for me. FFS I don’t want to hear another man talk about watching lesbians kiss each other. *massive eye roll*

    We’re living in exciting times. Things are changing. We rebel scum must continue the rebellion. There’s still a chance that we can save ourselves and the environment from bigots and psychopaths.
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  2. #52
    Insane Visionary Kanra13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    It really makes me happy to hear things like this. As a female mechanic, I spent an inordinate amount of time fighting off alpha males and misogynists trying to physically lay hands on me or attempt to verbally reduce me/“take me down a notch”. I liked open-minded playful guys with a strong sense of self and humor, and that was regrettably in short supply no matter where I went.

    On my breaks, I would sit on one of the bulldozers and eat my chips and imagine each redneck wearing dog collars and eyeliner. My punk hair and clothes drew out at least one country ‘freak’ who started wearing his earrings and NIN shirts again (we became close friends). I didn’t understand why liking something other ppl might not was such a problem, but I was just beginning to see the effects of toxic gender ideals/rigid masculinity on those around me. It was very ugly and unnecessary and disappointing. I remember a guy I knew half-jokingly bought me spurs for my birthday and that was considered ‘out there’ - a guy giving a girl spurs was such a gender flip and extremely suggestive by 1990s standards. Millennials give me hope that ppl will be able live their lives without being shamed into silence about it, esp when they aren’t breaking any laws.

    This is why I’m attracted to bisexual guys. Not a whole lot fazes them, and homophobia is such a huge fucking turn-off for me. FFS I don’t want to hear another man talk about watching lesbians kiss each other. *massive eye roll*

    We’re living in exciting times. Things are changing. We rebel scum must continue the rebellion. There’s still a chance that we can save ourselves and the environment from bigots and psychopaths.
    Mysogynists and Alpha Males. Ahhh yep. They're everywhere.

    Funny how one differing from the norm can inspire another. But without that they may have remained hidden and unexpressed because of outdated concepts and societal pressures.

    That is all we must do. Live our life, continue to shape and effect and change things for the better! Inspiring concept and idea, of which I fully support! Rebellion is what changes tradition, casting aside what is no longer useful for new and profound understandings. We have a long way to go still, but as long as we are still breathing and there are all these open minds amidst the closed stagnancy, even an ounce of hope can make a difference. And I believe we must constantly evolve if we are to survive.

    Kinda interesting that spurrs use to be so big back then. I was a late 90's kid so I don't remember much other than the amazing cartoons that were on(that are better than 99% of what's on nowadays).
    "A life that lives without doing anything is the same as a slow death." - Lelouch Vi Britannia

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    In theory: the wings create a strong 4ish imprint

    How fascinating the mind is.

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  3. #53
    A Bittersweet Symphony... Eryn Silverfrond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanra13 View Post
    How does one understand the concept of gender-fluidity? Something of which I possess and having a male body felt only half correct, also at times desperately desiring to free myself from it and take a new form. Female. But at the same time, I don't always feel one way or the other, so no absolute change would satisfy me. What does the many think about it? What sense does it have in your heads? All too often I find it mixed up in this SJW bullcrap which I do not adhere to. I'm no over emotional nutbag trying to point fingers and flip when everyday people use wrong pronouns. God forbid. But still, it's such a bizarre thing. Also when undergoing a change your chromosomes are still the same so you aren't TECHNICALLY a different gender, or... sex I suppose... because it seems gender is all over the place and hard to concretely discern anymore. So what really makes our 'sex' then? Just what we 'feel'? We think therefore we are? The lack of clarity is rather annoying, and there's too many eggshells to usually hold a coherent conversation.

    My Thoery is pretty simple though. I use to be a female in a past life, at least that's what I've felt. As it feels familiar and personal. Maybe we aren't "born" in the wrong body just a different one and seek to return to our former state. Or maybe not.

    Still. I and many others suffer from dysphorias that are not logical(from known understanding) and blindly praised and encouraged or despised and mocked. Whichever it be. Usually two sides taking extreme stances and both try to step on each other. Like always.

    Life is pretty absurd

    I have my own absurdities, but I seek to grasp them somehow. Maybe if we grasp a greater understanding we can gain far more maturity and happiness over our existences and 'who we are'.
    I can certainly relate. To a lot of this beyond the bolded and italicized. Accepting the mystery has been a big help. Realizing that I dont have the understanding I'd like, and just sort of like letting it go. BDD complicates things. But sometimes I wonder if part of that is like the set in stone gender roles that seem such a big deal to so many people, aggressively so, that if you actually dont fit the commonly accepted narrative; suddenly its like you're not a person, and maybe you never have been, you're an objectified ideal to either be put upon a pedestal or cast down. You are a subject of debate. You're state of being is something for others to discuss, vote upon, and judge. Your identity, your validity, your... legality. It's a lot to try and sift through, without all the external difficulties. but with them, yeah, I am amazed anyone ever is able to get resolution from it. But it does happen...

    I suppose...

    I hope.....


    ...fuck.
    There aren't any good guys, and there aren't any bad guys.
    There's just us.
    People.
    Doing our best to get by.

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  4. #54
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn Silverfrond View Post
    I can certainly relate. To a lot of this beyond the bolded and italicized. Accepting the mystery has been a big help. Realizing that I dont have the understanding I'd like, and just sort of like letting it go. BDD complicates things. But sometimes I wonder if part of that is like the set in stone gender roles that seem such a big deal to so many people, aggressively so, that if you actually dont fit the commonly accepted narrative; suddenly its like you're not a person, and maybe you never have been, you're an objectified ideal to either be put upon a pedestal or cast down. You are a subject of debate. You're state of being is something for others to discuss, vote upon, and judge. Your identity, your validity, your... legality. It's a lot to try and sift through, without all the external difficulties. but with them, yeah, I am amazed anyone ever is able to get resolution from it. But it does happen...
    I have often wondered about the highlighted. I have never fit established gender roles, at least not female ones. In many respects, I fit male ones. I suppose in some sense my life might be easier or at least more consistent with (others') expectations if I were a guy, but I have never had any BDD. The fact that I have a female body has never bothered me. To me, it is as much a non-issue as my hair color or hand preference. I shouldn't have to be physically male to do and be all those things that are important and fulfilling to me, but are usually associated with guys. That is how I have lived my life, and for the most part, I have run into very little opposition.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  5. #55
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    People exaggerate tendencies & then sift them down to the bare essentials.

    This both excludes the outliers and misrepresents the complexity of the natural world. Yet, in another direction, it's also unwise to throw out all gender with regards to biological inherency.

    I'd say the answer lies in that 'between-ness' and that people largely object to assumptions being made about their capability, character and potential. When something is talked about 'on average' it may be broadly correct, even with regards to gender. But the issue is not that there may be a degree of ontology in genetic and gender makeup, but that people who don't understand the nuances within that understanding tend to turn to absolutes for cognitive convenience.
    The nature of our species towards noticing patterns is only as good as the quality of the individual who notices the pattern. So we notice obvious extremes more than subtle ones & leave out what we cannot comprehend or deal with because it makes decision making easier. In modern bureaucracy this is habitually undertaken for the smooth running of reality; at the expense of the outlier.

    Conversely, I do see people playing power with words and enforcing an emotive self-righteous content onto a situation in order to manipulate or influence those around them, so there is another side to this difficulty (as there often is).

    My own position is based on individual interaction, i.e. do I trust or detect that the person is sincere enough in motivation to acquiesce to a request for something like a particular pronoun? In the vast majority of cases it is probably a yes, but social interaction is chaotic in nature and any guidelines for interaction are rough at best.

    And then there is genuine prejudice, where a person has let the neuroticism of their experiences win (albeit, often temporarily), and they see only the abstraction of their own pains.

    That's a different kind of cognitive convenience and far more destructive.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.
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  6. #56
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cellmold View Post
    People exaggerate tendencies & then sift them down to the bare essentials.

    This both excludes the outliers and misrepresents the complexity of the natural world. Yet, in another direction, it's also unwise to throw out all gender with regards to biological inherency.

    I'd say the answer lies in that 'between-ness' and that people largely object to assumptions being made about their capability, character and potential. When something is talked about 'on average' it may be broadly correct, even with regards to gender. But the issue is not that there may be a degree of ontology in genetic and gender makeup, but that people who don't understand the nuances within that understanding tend to turn to absolutes for cognitive convenience.
    The nature of our species towards noticing patterns is only as good as the quality of the individual who notices the pattern. So we notice obvious extremes more than subtle ones & leave out what we cannot comprehend or deal with because it makes decision making easier. In modern bureaucracy this is habitually undertaken for the smooth running of reality; at the expense of the outlier.
    The issues I see fall into two categories. The first, to which you allude, is the idea that inherent gender difference are indeed statistical averages, and may not describe many/most individuals very well. The second is that even differences which are fairly categorical do not support most of the conclusions which they are used to justify. For example: it may be easy to establish that men almost universally have more of chemical A in their bodies than women, or that women have better connections between certain portions of the brain. Connecting those differences to behavior, preferences, etc. however is another matter entirely and rarely supportable.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  7. #57
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The issues I see fall into two categories. The first, to which you allude, is the idea that inherent gender difference are indeed statistical averages, and may not describe many/most individuals very well. The second is that even differences which are fairly categorical do not support most of the conclusions which they are used to justify. For example: it may be easy to establish that men almost universally have more of chemical A in their bodies than women, or that women have better connections between certain portions of the brain. Connecting those differences to behavior, preferences, etc. however is another matter entirely and rarely supportable.
    This is the issue with a potentially infinite reality.

    Drawing increasingly finer lines can become very chaotic. But yeah, it's very easy to trick or influence perception and preconceived notions are difficult to dislodge, there's a requirement (there) of constant vigilance.

    That's probably an unfortunate (not necessarily justifiable) consequence of how we make decisions; cutting out extraneous information in order to create a more manageable and decisive reality. People are always going to put behaviour to the patterns that suit their purposes.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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