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Does trauma increase or decrease empathy for others?

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This is completely irrelevant to our discussion. It began with a simple question which you've avoided and when expressed why you're avoiding answering it, you give two different reasons of which neither is valid, relative to many possibilities premised on your own 'choice' premise.

Let's lay this out clearly and simply. You've oversimplified 'choice' and 'belief'. If one believes something, they may not have a choice to believe such because of both context and limitations in abilities. But they also might have a choice and an accurate belief, within the right context and considering their abilities.

Not everyone who wants to become president, becomes the president, regardless of their choices. There are thousands of politicians who haven't attained the position, even though they believe they should be the president and have made the right choices to work themselves to that level. Some can't because they can't handle stress where neuroticism isn't a choice. They also can't believe themselves out of neuroticism.

I'm not sure I see how this has anything to do with what I said.

You did NOT ask a fair question, obviously. Fact.
Even if we assume it IS a fair question, then I can answer the question how I want to.
If you mean to "prove" by asking a question in which there is ONLY one correct answer that there is no such thing as choice, then I expect you to answer my question as well.
I will repeat my question.
Do you act like you don't have a choice?
 

rav3n

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You did NOT ask a fair question, obviously. Fact.
Even if we assume it IS a fair question, then I can answer the question how I want to.
How is the question unfair?

If you mean to "prove" by asking a question in which there is ONLY one correct answer that there is no such thing as choice, then I expect you to answer my question as well.
I will repeat my question.
Do you act like you don't have a choice?
Nope, since you haven't answered my question, only ran around in tangents.
 

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How is the question unfair?

Because according to you (you can check me here if I am wrong) there is only one logical choice. I just happen to think that this assumes a moral decision rather than a logical one, which is that material hedonism is the correct worldview. I don't agree with this worldview.
 

rav3n

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Because according to you (you can check me here if I am wrong) there is only one logical choice. I just happen to think that this assumes a moral decision rather than a logical one, which is that material hedonism is the correct worldview. I don't agree with this worldview.
Wat? Nope. That's your inaccurate presumption, considering how an ethical multimillionaire can dedicate their lives and funds towards helping others since they have choice and belief, right?
 

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Wat? Nope. That's your inaccurate presumption, considering how an ethical multimillionaire can dedicate their lives and funds towards helping others since they have choice and belief, right?

So what would be a reason you would want to live in poverty?
 

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You decide. Again, I rebroach the question. Make your choice.

Alright, I guess we are at a stalemate because I can't decide. Now let's just drop it.
 

rav3n

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Alright, I guess we are at a stalemate because I can't decide. Now let's just drop it.
What's the purpose of this post? If you genuinely wished to drop it, you wouldn't have responded.
 

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:doh:

Oh, IDK, I thought maybe COMMUNICATING would be a good idea.
 

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Neither. Capacity for empathy stays the same I think, but it decreases someone's willingness to build on their feelings for others. For me, I disconnect more, become more cautious, and start to care less what people want or expect from me, even though I can empathize with them. But if people show they are trustworthy, not abusive, and well-meaning that let's me build on the empathy I already had for them. But then again, a psychopath probably has a different understanding of this.
 

Cellmold

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If this were a matter of sequential logic and distinction, then it might go someway to solving some of our worst habits and problems as a species.

Unfortunately it seems more tied to a nebulous concept of character, which is changable, but not too much. Someone who needs to be taken thousands of miles to see the suffering of others in order to care, was likely never going to be charitable to begin with, some other rationalisation will kick in. Coversely, someone who understands without the exposure is more likely to give freely.

But these are black and white examples, there are generally more degrees inbetween.

Dickin's A Christmas Carol is the perfect example of that desire to change, the hope that one can change and that it is never too late. To be better than yesterday.

Sadly, life is not a story, at least, not that kind. It's more up in the air than that.
 

Venus Rose

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Trauma can decrease empathy when it creates hyper-arousal, and increase empathy in case where the individual is not so frazzled and terrified that they cannot attend to the needs of others; in this situation it might be the more beneficial (interpersonally) ability to empathize with a unique situations that perhaps most who do not have insight (into human behavior; could be through anything - studying, personal experiences...) plus interpersonal skills not having gone "offline" due to overarousal
that's one example I can think of anyway there are probably others
 

Lark

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If this were a matter of sequential logic and distinction, then it might go someway to solving some of our worst habits and problems as a species.

Unfortunately it seems more tied to a nebulous concept of character, which is changable, but not too much. Someone who needs to be taken thousands of miles to see the suffering of others in order to care, was likely never going to be charitable to begin with, some other rationalisation will kick in. Coversely, someone who understands without the exposure is more likely to give freely.

But these are black and white examples, there are generally more degrees inbetween.

Dickin's A Christmas Carol is the perfect example of that desire to change, the hope that one can change and that it is never too late. To be better than yesterday.

Sadly, life is not a story, at least, not that kind. It's more up in the air than that.

Most recently I've been reading about attachment style and some speculations (really its another instance of research needs to be done) about it being patterned differently between national populations.

I think that trauma and recovery and possible impairment could be as bigger or bigger an issue when it comes to the fate of national populations, even internal populations of distinctive character. This is speculative too though, I've not done the research, plus repetition compulsion, remembrance ritual and all that looks different one culture to another, or even one traumatic episode to another. Its a talking point I guess.

Plus I think a lot of stress theories of crisis have been weaponized, virtually, by cyber crime, cyber warfare spooks etc. etc.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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I know I've posted here before, but this issue is a big deal to me on a personal level. Trauma increases empathy. People who have not had certain kinds of pain are the first to dismiss it in others. Most of the people I know who have significant amounts of pain, whether that be severe health issues, violence, abuse, mental illness, etc. are dismissed on a regular basis by people who haven't suffered much. It is a basic fact that people in pain end up alone because most of their friends leave. People connect through pleasure and avoid each other through pain. The people with the easier lives always feel 100% entitled to dismiss the pain of others because it doesn't fit into their paradigms. People with trauma have worked out pain into their paradigms and so have the capacity to see it, they aren't afraid of it, they can look it straight in the eyes, and if they have worked through it themselves, they can shine a light on the darkest of paths.

As a private piece of information - The majority of the time I avoid anyone who hasn't had much trauma because they are more likely to instruct to make the pain go away with their good A+ answers instead of listening. They too often have a sweet, smiling, unintentional cruelty that quotes way too many inspirational memes.
 
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