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  1. #11
    Fe this! Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    On a related tangent (about compassion fatigue/secondary trauma), I like what Paul Bloom said (as a guest on a Sam Harris podcast) about the difference between empathy and compassion: empathy is something that exhausts in supply when used, whereas compassion only gets stronger with use. The way he defines these terms is at odds with the label "compassion fatigue" (this is what he'd label "empathy") - but the point here is that some ways to experience empathy are more productive (read: compassion grows instead of being depleted) than others.

    I've been meaning to read Bloom's book about it (I think it's called A Case Against Empathy), but haven't gotten around to it.
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  2. #12
    Noncompliant Yuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Actually, now you mention this, I've definitely noticed that among a particular population.

    Its kind of like a "significantly sicker than you..." instead of the "significantly richer than you..." which used to be a joke in comedy TV shows in the nineties or there abouts
    It is sad how in society it is more common to compete over how pitiful you are rather than strength or achievements.
    “ Rise up and raise the iron roof off
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    It is sad how in society it is more common to compete over how pitiful you are rather than strength or achievements.
    The people I've seen do this dont really have much in the way of strengths and achievements to talk about instead but I know what you mean, it is better when people can and they should, but it is mad, I think the "having" culture applies to this as much as anything else, people want to have more, more, more of whatever the hell it is.

  4. #14
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    In my experience, no.

    Everyone is always in a competition over who's life is more pitiful so rather than recognize it they dismiss and invalidate as "Not as legitimate" as their own.

    I swear the words " My trauma..." is about to become my trigger.
    But if help was more available, if there was less stigma attached, less blowback for reporting it to and so on, my trauma would have less of an impact overall. Including on you and their ability to use it as a weapon on you and everyone else.
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  5. #15
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    There are going to be strong arguments either way on this depending on the lens you are looking through, how it is approached and measured.

    First you have to define what trauma is (and there will be many interpretations). Then you have to look for evidence in research and studies (of which there will also be many) and come to some kind of conclusion whilst acknowledging the possible short comings of the findings.

    The Grenfell tower fire and twin towers catastrophes may be a good place to start as you have a large number of people affected by the same events, though of course you also have the mass panic and media spiral to content with. With events such as those I think a large area can be drawn out much like a diagram of a bomb and the shock waves radius with varying levels of impact. Of course there will be many other contributing factors of individuals to consider too. But with larger scale numbers of people it is possible to see larger patterns (at least at large scale trauma level).

    Then it may be possible to for longitudinal studies to be carried out to assess something like compassion/empathy. And also numerical data to be collected regarding the services created to support those affected.
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  6. #16
    Noncompliant Yuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    But if help was more available, if there was less stigma attached, less blowback for reporting it to and so on, my trauma would have less of an impact overall. Including on you and their ability to use it as a weapon on you and everyone else.
    This sounds reasonable, and I’m inclined to agree but everyone I know who has ( or claims to have) trauma issues has at least one therapist, a social worker and God-knows how many support groups.

    Do you think it’s that while treatment is available, it is just not effective? Do they use too much of a “ standard-issue” one -size fits all” approach”? Or, do you think it’s more that the ones who really need help don’t ask and aren’t offered it? .
    “ Rise up and raise the iron roof off
    Now, Rise up and riot 'til the bomb drops
    Now, Rise up the time is right to sound off, so
    Rise with me, rise with me, rise with me (RISE UP!)”

  7. #17
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    This sounds reasonable, and I’m inclined to agree but everyone I know who has ( or claims to have) trauma issues has at least one therapist, a social worker and God-knows how many support groups.

    Do you think it’s that while treatment is available, it is just not effective? Do they use too much of a “ standard-issue” one -size fits all” approach”? Or, do you think it’s more that the ones who really need help don’t ask and aren’t offered it? .
    It depends but I know the right therapy is effective for the vast majority of people. That said, I've seen people that really need therapy become unhinged at the very mention of getting some help. One thing I see more and more is people using faith based "counseling" by pastors or minister. This is due to little to no cost or waiting time or ease since it's generally aimed at existing prisoners. But they often have little to no experience or training that often make things worse with the addition of religious bullshit on top of real emotional and mental issues often accompanied by dysfunctional living environments. Those require group therapy and a couple episodes of Dr. Phil is enough to make people say - fuck that. And not even discuss it again.

    One size fits all can't be applied to mental health care but, you have to start somewhere. Also people dismiss care due to cost or have no idea there is coverage, such as older people with Medicare.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  8. #18

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    It really depends on the individual. An example of diversity is that a lot of people continue the cycle of abuse. And yet, there are a lot of others who break the cycle of abuse.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    .

    From Childhood Trauma to Adulthood Empathy? | AllPsych Blog

    If there’s a good side to suffering, it might be that it can make you more attuned to the suffering of others. A new study from researchers at City University of New York, University of Cambridge, and University College London suggests that traumatic experiences in childhood might be linked to heightened empathy in adulthood.
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  10. #20
    somnium tenebris Powehi's Avatar
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    It can bring one to a crossroads to make the decision whether it increases or decreases empathy. In general people empathize based on their own literal experiences, so the broader the experience of pain the greater the capacity for empathy towards others with pain. Often if a person has not experienced pain, they will avoid it in others and feel awkward in the presence of it. People who have experienced pain and normalized the experience of it can be more helpful and connect better to others with that pain because they are past the initial shock, awkwardness, and paradigm-shifting nature of it.

    One perfect example are homeless people - how many look and say, "they should get a job". That is a perfect example of how privilege eliminates empathy and results in absurd assumptions.

    I know people with chronic physical pain who are constantly dismissed by people without that issue. Many people will respond with "oh, I hate it when I get headaches, but I just go to work anyway".

    Mostly when people witness pain in others, they quickly formulate a way it is the person's own fault and define in some way that it won't happen to them personally. I remember a funeral where a loved one died of heart disease and people murmured, "well, did you see their diet and how much fat and sugar they ate?".

    I've wondered if a certain combination of privilege (being spoilt) and pain can result in the least amount of empathy if it causes increased self-centeredness coming from both ends of the stick. However, I think some amount of experienced pain is almost necessary to have some level of empathy. I've rarely seen empathy in people who haven't suffered at all. Lots of smiles and 'chin ups', but no empathy.

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